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Old 05-06-2016, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Virginia
350 posts, read 464,090 times
Reputation: 442

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take57, take what Hamish Forbes says with a grain of salt. Three years ago I made a post asking people if they thought hard right political changes in North Carolina would have an effect on the state's economy... if high-tech companies would leave the state or think twice about locating in NC. I wrote "I'm a techie whose worked all over the country including high-tech firms on the west coast. The highly educated people who work at these companies tend to be liberal, independent or possibly libertarian. Many high tech companies tend to be very progressive, eg extending benefits to gay couples with children. Many of these companies and employees felt comfortable here, because NC was supposed to be a modern, forward thinking, moderate, friendly place where it was inexpensive to raise a family…"

Here's are some of Forbes' nuggets of wisdom:

"What I am telling you, based on this experience, is that the premise of your thread is just silly. Nothing of any consequence is going to happen as a result of the recent changes in our legislature.”

“...your point of view on this issue is completely juvenile. Do you really think that cisco will apportion its upcoming layoffs according to local politics? Do you really think that IBM gives a rat's patoot about the new legislature in Raleigh?"

"On the other hand, you are making a big mistake if you allow your decision to be influenced by a group of highly vocal moonbats having hissy-fits over relatively inconsequential political changes."

"The idea that high-tech employers are going to leave the state is simply ridiculous, and shows just about zero understanding of business or of human nature. High-tech will do just fine here. For every skateboarding programmer who takes umbrage with the new politics, numerous other equally capable (and hopefully more mature) candidates are available."


And I'm sure you are aware of the countless things I could now post like:
North Carolina loses 400 jobs as PayPal pulls facility. PayPal CEO Dan Schulman: "Becoming an employer in North Carolina, where members of our teams will not have equal rights under the law, is simply untenable," said in a statement. "The new law perpetuates discrimination and it violates the values and principles that are at the core of PayPal's mission and culture."
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:00 AM
 
Location: SDL/PDX/RDU
4,755 posts, read 2,533,883 times
Reputation: 5539
Thanks SpaceMan, no worries.
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Old 05-07-2016, 05:37 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 6,980,752 times
Reputation: 4402
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
There was an overreach when it came to the minimum wage. That is state mandated. That's a fact. There was also and overreach with the ordinance itself. What would have been wrong with the city going to the state and saying, "Hey, we want to enforce XYZ, because we feel we need these laws put in place for whatever reason"? Part of the problem in today's government is that there is too much competition from both sides and not enough communication and working together to solve some of these issues or at least work out a solution that works for most everyone.
Remind me again which Charlotte ordinance raised the minimum wage? Please include a link.

Oh wait, you can't *find* one?!? Hmmm. Maybe because their WASN'T ONE?!?

You keep changing your lies. You make one point, it gets shot out of the water. So you make another equally outrageous reply! Bad news skins... INFORMED people do their research and speak about facts. The rest of you guys, well I don't know where your information comes from but it is not based on reality. Every argument you've tried to twist around is false. Charlotte BROKE NO LAW. THAT'S WHY THE GOP CONVENED AN EMERGENCY SESSION. how many times do you need to hear it?

Last edited by Native_Son; 05-07-2016 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:52 AM
 
2,912 posts, read 3,534,625 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by VASpaceMan View Post
take57, take what Hamish Forbes says with a grain of salt. Three years ago I made a post asking people if they thought hard right political changes in North Carolina would have an effect on the state's economy... if high-tech companies would leave the state or think twice about locating in NC. I wrote "I'm a techie whose worked all over the country including high-tech firms on the west coast. The highly educated people who work at these companies tend to be liberal, independent or possibly libertarian. Many high tech companies tend to be very progressive, eg extending benefits to gay couples with children. Many of these companies and employees felt comfortable here, because NC was supposed to be a modern, forward thinking, moderate, friendly place where it was inexpensive to raise a family…"

Here's are some of Forbes' nuggets of wisdom:

"What I am telling you, based on this experience, is that the premise of your thread is just silly. Nothing of any consequence is going to happen as a result of the recent changes in our legislature.”
“...your point of view on this issue is completely juvenile. Do you really think that cisco will apportion its upcoming layoffs according to local politics? Do you really think that IBM gives a rat's patoot about the new legislature in Raleigh?"

"On the other hand, you are making a big mistake if you allow your decision to be influenced by a group of highly vocal moonbats having hissy-fits over relatively inconsequential political changes."

"The idea that high-tech employers are going to leave the state is simply ridiculous, and shows just about zero understanding of business or of human nature. High-tech will do just fine here. For every skateboarding programmer who takes umbrage with the new politics, numerous other equally capable (and hopefully more mature) candidates are available."
So I ask, you, spaceman, has high-tech collapsed in the state in the last three years? It's not going to happen. Business today is driven by the bottom line -- and nothing more. Yes, a few shrill, juvenile workers might indeed choose to relocate because of the political climate, and they will be easily replaced (as often as not by people in/from India). Note that in the last three years, new apartments have been built on just about every available plot in the greater Triangle area. Massive shopping centers on heretofore undeveloped corners. The state has a budget surplus. I just sat for about 20 minutes at a traffic light in Morrisville, waiting for high-tech workers who haven't left the state yet to clear the intersection. No accident, just massive traffic. Seems to be lots of people are still here.

By the way, IBM was one of the first high-tech companies to settle in RTP. Their motive for coming here was to find cheap, relatively well educated (UNC, NCSU, Holding Tech as it was known then), non-union labor; they didn't suppose anything more about the state. You might look into their reason for having a never-used railroad spur leading into the original campus.

Last edited by Hamish Forbes; 05-07-2016 at 07:16 AM..
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:10 AM
 
1,335 posts, read 732,968 times
Reputation: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Yes, a few shrill, juvenile workers might indeed choose to relocate because of the political climate, and they will be easily replaced (as often as not by people in/from India).
India? Surely these self-righteous bastions of LGBTQIA empowerment wouldn't choose to employ or do business with people where homosexuality is outlawed as a crime?
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,714 posts, read 3,246,200 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulfpeck View Post
India? Surely these self-righteous bastions of LGBTQIA empowerment wouldn't choose to employ or do business with people where homosexuality is outlawed as a crime?


You might want to change your argument. It's not working. At all.
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:44 AM
 
2,912 posts, read 3,534,625 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulfpeck View Post
India? Surely these self-righteous bastions of LGBTQIA empowerment wouldn't choose to employ or do business with people where homosexuality is outlawed as a crime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post
You might want to change your argument. It's not working. At all.

But the argument is working. This kind of behavior is almost universal in the high-tech business.

IBM, for example, fully and indignantly supports the LGBTQxyz agenda, and yet enthusiastically hires and does business in India, China, even Saudi Arabia. The point is not that they are hypocrites, but rather, despite all of their bluster, they are completely amoral. Anyone who believes PR releases on issues like this is quite naive. For a really good account, read IBM and the Holocaust, by Edwin Black. Same story, different players . . .

My guess is that most of the posters here have never been in management above a really junior level (if at all).
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,714 posts, read 3,246,200 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
But the argument is working. This kind of behavior is almost universal in the high-tech business.

IBM, for example, fully and indignantly supports the LGBTQxyz agenda, and yet enthusiastically hires and does business in India, China, even Saudi Arabia. The point is not that they are hypocrites, but rather, despite all of their bluster, they are completely amoral. Anyone who believes PR releases on issues like this is quite naive. For a really good account, read IBM and the Holocaust, by Edwin Black. Same story, different players . . .

My guess is that most of the posters here have never been in management above a really junior level (if at all).


It's a yuuuuuge failure of an argument. It's not winning. It never will win, Lyin' Forbes.


#MakeNorthCarolinaGreatAgain
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Old 05-07-2016, 08:52 AM
 
2,912 posts, read 3,534,625 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post
It's a yuuuuuge failure of an argument. It's not winning. It never will win, Lyin' Forbes.
A thoughtful comment, indeed.
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Old 05-07-2016, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,714 posts, read 3,246,200 times
Reputation: 2613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
A thoughtful comment, indeed.


That's how I read your post. You keep reiterating nonsensical jiggery pokery and expect the proverbial Shiite to hit the fan and stick. This issue has been tried in court. The 4th circuit has said there is zero evidence that allowing transgender people to use the restroom that reflects their identity will effect anyone else or put anyone else in danger. Hundreds of women's shelters, rape shelters, and police departments around the country have states there is zero issues. On the other hand, transgender people are likely to be harassed in the restroom of their biological sex (which is really what you want. You want transgender people to go in the restroom of their biological sex so they are shamed and harassed)


Around 50-60 years ago, blacks and whites couldn't drink out of the same water fountain. Women didn't have. Equal rights, and a man even tackled a woman for running in a marathon because marathons were for men. You would absolutely been one of those people making multiple claims of "birds of a feather flock together! It's scientific proof! They're being treated equal, everyone has the same equal rights of getting the same education, the same everything. Blacks just want special treatment by mixing with whites. Whites can't drink out of black water fountains either."


It's kind of odd. You just got defeated with marriage equality and the lessons weren't learned. If you're going to have an intelligent legal reasoning, you're going to have to use logic. Not ignorant populism "if gays can get married, I'm marrying a tree frog." Those ignorant arguments will not win in any intellectual conversation just as your impossibility to logically differentiate the cause/effect of doing business in Saudi Arabia vs. NC hold zero water.


But it's nice to see conservatives are so pro doing business with states that have shady human rights efforts. I assume this now means you will get on board with embracing Cuba? It's about time!
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