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Old 06-06-2016, 09:06 AM
 
1,351 posts, read 753,443 times
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Originally Posted by mlhm5 View Post
Stay on topic or create your own thread.

The Republican lead Senate is preparing to strip all medical benefits from all state workers and my point is would be teachers, who NC pays 41st in the USA, will seek other careers before taking on debt to teach in NC.

Charter schools and private schools do not have the benefits of the traditional public schools and pay less, so if potential teachers are not attracted to teaching the traditional public schools currently because of low pay and of course now the potential loss of benefits, how are private and charter schools going to attract people to go into the teaching profession when their salaries and benefits are less?
If charter schools got a larger role, then they would have the funding to pay better and provide better benefits, creating real competition and choices for the teachers.
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:44 AM
 
990 posts, read 1,195,950 times
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Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
If you had checked, you would have found that Baltimore City has one of the most lavishly funded and staffed public school systems in the country, and yet has one of the worst outcomes. In other words, funding and staffing have little impact on the quality of education. But it's easy to be for just about anything, isn't it? What we lack is an effective way to reach people who come from dysfunctional "families" and cultures.

On the other hand, much of our material and scientific progress -- which everyone ultimately benefits from -- comes from a small fraction of the population. I want to try to identify the people who will invent and develop the next transistor and internet, so to speak, and do everything possible to nurture their talent. Let's not focus so much of our resources on those least likely to succeed rather than on those most likely.

One of the best schools in the country is Raleigh Charter. Funding Raleigh Charter does not necessitate reducing funding to the mainstream Raleigh public schools; funding is shifted, not reduced per-student. The same advantage might come with a voucher system (which I do not favor for other reasons) -- let's have some competition for the government schools. It would do them a world of good. Unfortunately, as has long been said, it's hard to convince someone whose job depends on believing otherwise.
So basically you want to get the best and brightest and give them all the benefits and we can just lay waste to the rest? This mindset is staggering. Having options and avenues for the best and brightest is of a great importance, but so is helping those who may not be. Also in a low performing school, with low test scores how would you even know someone was destined for greatness? The only people your proposed system helps is those of better socioeconomic upbringing. I grew up in that upbringing in South Florida (got to attend better schools), and can tell you exactly what happens. You just continue to under educate and undervalue certain people and you continue the cycle we have now. I watched people struggle to do homework with not enough books, and a teacher that didn't have enough time to answer questions, and guess what you just discourage them and create a broader society or people that feel forgotten about and with the system you are suggesting, they basically are.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:04 AM
 
2,916 posts, read 3,552,846 times
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Originally Posted by pumbaa View Post
So basically you want to get the best and brightest and give them all the benefits and we can just lay waste to the rest? This mindset is staggering.
Lay waste? Staggering? Do you exaggerate much?

Quote:

Having options and avenues for the best and brightest is of a great importance, but so is helping those who may not be. Also in a low performing school, with low test scores how would you even know someone was destined for greatness? The only people your proposed system helps is those of better socioeconomic upbringing.
By individual testing, of course. Think of the SAT, PSAT, and so forth. We had such tests in my elementary school, regularly. The original purpose of the SAT was to identify bright kids from poor backgrounds. The effort was initiated by Ivy League colleges.

Quote:

I grew up in that upbringing in South Florida (got to attend better schools), and can tell you exactly what happens. You just continue to under educate and undervalue certain people and you continue the cycle we have now. I watched people struggle to do homework with not enough books, and a teacher that didn't have enough time to answer questions, and guess what you just discourage them and create a broader society or people that feel forgotten about and with the system you are suggesting, they basically are.
Baloney. I grew up in Baltimore City, and I can tell you exactly what happens, and the root of it has nothing to do with what you suggest. The vast majority of students with low IQ from ghetto cultures cannot be educated beyond -- let us at least hope -- the very basics. They effectively destroyed my elementary school in a matter of just a few years, which school was built like a brick whatever house, and would have lasted for 100 years with more responsible use. The teachers that I had were thrown out for racial re-balancing of the faculty. Today, the school is one of the worst anywhere. And you're saying that this happened because of what? Funding is something like $10,000 per-year, per-student.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Lay waste? Staggering? Do you exaggerate much?



By individual testing, of course. Think of the SAT, PSAT, and so forth. We had such tests in my elementary school, regularly. The original purpose of the SAT was to identify bright kids from poor backgrounds. The effort was initiated by Ivy League colleges.



Baloney. I grew up in Baltimore City, and I can tell you exactly what happens, and the root of it has nothing to do with what you suggest. The vast majority of students with low IQ from ghetto cultures cannot be educated beyond -- let us at least hope -- the very basics. They effectively destroyed my elementary school in a matter of just a few years, which school was built like a brick whatever house, and would have lasted for 100 years with more responsible use. The teachers that I had were thrown out for racial re-balancing of the faculty. Today, the school is one of the worst anywhere. And you're saying that this happened because of what? Funding is something like $10,000 per-year, per-student.
SAT isn't taken until Junior year of high school if you have been in horrible schools until then how do you judge off of that? PSAT is another high school level test to get ready for the SAT. And to say that students of ghetto cultures have low iq and cannot be taught is disgusting. I agree if someone does not have the drive to learn they will not but there are plenty of these supposed low iq people that haven't even had a chance.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:19 AM
 
2,916 posts, read 3,552,846 times
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Originally Posted by pumbaa View Post
SAT isn't taken until Junior year of high school if you have been in horrible schools until then how do you judge off of that? PSAT is another high school level test to get ready for the SAT.
Age-appropriate psychometric testing, not specifically the SAT, of course.

Quote:

And to say that students of ghetto cultures have low iq and cannot be taught is disgusting.
Disgusting? Save the histrionics for somewhere else.

Quote:

I agree if someone does not have the drive to learn they will not but there are plenty of these supposed low iq people that haven't even had a chance.
The purpose of the psychometric testing is to identify students who might thrive, and to give them "a chance."
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:50 AM
 
1,351 posts, read 753,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pumbaa View Post
So basically you want to get the best and brightest and give them all the benefits and we can just lay waste to the rest? This mindset is staggering. Having options and avenues for the best and brightest is of a great importance, but so is helping those who may not be.
Coincidentally, the NC legislature is planning to do just that.

"The bill would create various pilot projects aimed at turning around schools where students consistently show little academic improvement and post low scores on state tests.

...the proposal calls for the State Board of Education to select five schools across North Carolina to put in a so-called "Achievement School District," or ASD, and hire entities to run the schools.

The operators of the school would have five years to show improved student performance, and if the results don't exceed those of schools not in the program, the group's contract would be canceled."

House bill seeks new management for failing NC schools :: WRAL.com
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:01 AM
 
990 posts, read 1,195,950 times
Reputation: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Age-appropriate psychometric testing, not specifically the SAT, of course.



Disgusting? Save the histrionics for somewhere else.



The purpose of the psychometric testing is to identify students who might thrive, and to give them "a chance."
It is not histrionics it is disgusting to say people of certain socioeconomic groups can't be taught. Anyways this isn't even on topic of the thread and I am done with this one. This state is already one of the lowest in scores, effectiveness, and spending so this will just help put another nail on the coffin of the lack of teachers.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:06 PM
 
2,651 posts, read 6,094,247 times
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Originally Posted by vulfpeck View Post
Coincidentally, the NC legislature is planning to do just that.

"The bill would create various pilot projects aimed at turning around schools where students consistently show little academic improvement and post low scores on state tests.

...the proposal calls for the State Board of Education to select five schools across North Carolina to put in a so-called "Achievement School District," or ASD, and hire entities to run the schools.

The operators of the school would have five years to show improved student performance, and if the results don't exceed those of schools not in the program, the group's contract would be canceled."

House bill seeks new management for failing NC schools :: WRAL.com


Great, more opportunities to privatize public education. Here's an idea--instead of hiring profit-driven companies to run our schools, why not fund the appropriate research to identify programs and teaching methods that work for at-risk kids, then properly fund those programs? Crazy idea, I know...
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:10 PM
 
1,351 posts, read 753,443 times
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Originally Posted by arbyunc View Post
Great, more opportunities to privatize public education. Here's an idea--instead of hiring profit-driven companies to run our schools, why not fund the appropriate research to identify programs and teaching methods that work for at-risk kids, then properly fund those programs? Crazy idea, I know...
What they're proposing is what any research funding would do. Put a group of kids into a charter situation and another group with matching demographics into a traditional setting and compare the outcomes.

Last edited by vulfpeck; 06-06-2016 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:24 PM
 
2,651 posts, read 6,094,247 times
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Originally Posted by vulfpeck View Post
What they're proposing is what any research funding would do. Put a group of kids into a charter situation and another group with matching demographics into a traditional setting and compare the outcomes.
No, what they're doing is pandering to private companies. A better way to attack the problem is to fund research to identify teaching methods and programs that work, and then properly fund their implementation in public schools. You don't need charter schools to try different approaches. You just need visionary leaders and education professionals who are dedicated and passionate about education, and who have the authority to make changes without having to worry about ignorant legislators meddling in their profession.
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