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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulfpeck
Except blacks are actually black and women are actually women. You're saying I should have the right to claim blackness or womanhood and get equal protections with them?
There you go, twisting it again.
All rights for LGBT people were wiped out by HB2. I'm not talking about bathrooms. We've explained it to you countless times in multiple threads. You just go back to the bathrooms. That seems to be your safe place.
All rights for LGBT people were wiped out by HB2. I'm not talking about bathrooms. We've explained it to you countless times in multiple threads. You just go back to the bathrooms. That seems to be your safe place.
If it's just about anti-discrimination laws for LGBT, then you also need to take it up with the federal government and 28 other states that also don't have them
If Charlotte repeals the bathroom ordinance, then it is very likely that they will be able to keep the employment discrimination portion. Unfortunately, they're more interested in playing for political points than actually instituting protections
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulfpeck
If it's just about anti-discrimination laws for LGBT, then you also need to take it up with the federal government and 28 other states that also don't have them
If Charlotte repeals the bathroom ordinance, then it is very likely that they will be able to keep the employment discrimination portion. Unfortunately, they're more interested in playing for political points than actually instituting protections
Non-existing rights is not the same as taking away rights. I think that I'm wasting my time explaining anything to to you.
If it's unconstitutional to take away discrimination law for LGBT'S, then it's equally unconstitutional not to have them. The truth is, there is no constitutional right to be served or employed wherever you want
If it's unconstitutional to take away discrimination law for LGBT'S, then it's equally unconstitutional not to have them. The truth is, there is no constitutional right to be served or employed wherever you want
So, there is no constitutional right for, as an example, a white person to have the opportunity to be employed? If a company didn't hire white people.... tough luck? They have no right to be employed? Oh. Or are we selectively picking demographics to apply justice to?
I'm gay, and I have 1/2 the passion you do... Why are you so hung up on denying rights?
Perhaps there would be some disagreement as to what is legitimately a "right" and what is not. And then there come questions of what happens when two parties' "rights" collide.
So, there is no constitutional right for, as an example, a white person to have the opportunity to be employed? If a company didn't hire white people.... tough luck? They have no right to be employed? Oh. Or are we selectively picking demographics to apply justice to?
Yes, tough luck. There are actually companies that dont hire white people. And some that dont hire men. And thats OK
People have a right to associate and do business with who they want. The government should not discriminate, but people can and should decide for themselves who to enter into contract with
... The truth is, there is no constitutional right to be served or employed wherever you want
Quote:
Originally Posted by vulfpeck
Yes, tough luck. There are actually companies that dont hire white people. And some that dont hire men. And thats OK
People have a right to associate and do business with who they want. The government should not discriminate, but people can and should decide for themselves who to enter into contract with
I think you are uneducated about US labor law.
If a business operating as a public accommodation discriminates against a minority group, they can sued. The courts throughout the US have upheld anti-discrimination laws time and again.
As a landlord I know all about my rights and my responsibilities when it comes to housing discrimination.
If a business operating as a public accommodation discriminates against a minority group, they can sued. The courts throughout the US have upheld anti-discrimination laws time and again.
As a landlord I know all about my rights and my responsibilities when it comes to housing discrimination.
Just because something is law, does not mean it should be. There is nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing an inalienable right to privately-supplied accommodations. As I recall, the 3rd Amendment is fairly adamant that owners grant consent even to quarter soldiers in time of war
Charlotte is the most impacted by the companies boycotting, yet they refuse to even discuss repealing their ordinance in return for elimination of HB2. That tells me all I need to know about how economically "devastating" all this has been. Apparently, not very
There is no guarantee that HB2 would be overturned if they repealed their ordinance (which BTW has already been invalidated...by HB2). They know how backstabbing the NC GOP legislators are and even if Charlotte did withdraw the ordinance, Berger/Moore et al would just say "PSYCH!"
The legislature has shown their true, ugly colors many times over and most folks won't be fooled again. They have no subtlety in their reactions to anything (witness HB2's one-day passage, where it is unlikely even the governor read and understood the entire thing), and have a bully mentality. They are like a hostage-taker who accepts the ransom but still doesn't release the hostage, and Charlotte knows it.
Quote:
Charlotte's ordinance made it illegal to keep any men out of women's locker rooms and showers. Read it. If you can't see that's a problem, then I can't help you.
Of the millions of sexual assault perpetrators in this state, the vast majority are male, while the vast majority of victims are female. Eliminating the authority of businesses to separate their facilities by gender puts many women at a higher risk.
And yet there are numerous municipalities, even Columbia, SC, that have had this kind of allowance for years--can you point to a single case where it resulted in the assault of a woman? Heck, before all of this started, there was no explicit law telling anybody who could go in what bathroom in NC. I have personally used the "Women's" bathroom in "one stall" situations such as truck stops when the Men's was occupied and there were no women waiting--frankly I have never understood why "one-hole" bathrooms aren't gender-neutral anyway, since only one person is in there at a time.
Where were all of the cases of men strolling into women's locker rooms before 2016, when it was not mentioned by law at all? You haven't answered how suddenly one city's spelling out what transgender people have been doing all long is suddenly going to unleash floodgates of men "saying they're female" just to walk in an unlocked door and assault somebody. Why didn't they just do that before this year, when no law addressed it at all?
And even HB2 is admitted by the very people who passed it (in their frantic haste to cozy up to the extreme Religious Right) to be unenforceable. This law accomplishes nothing, addressed a made-up problem that it doesn't even stop in the first place, and is doing nothing but making NC look like a bunch of loonies focused on the wrong things while most people just care about job security and the economy.
PS--the vast majority of men who assault women are people they know, while you're quoting statistics. Maybe you should pass a law saying NO man can be in the proximity of any woman he knows, which would address the ACTUAL cases of sexual assault far more than something ill-thought-out and unenforceable like HB2.
Quote:
You don't have a "right" to enter any business and walk into the women's shower unopposed.
First, it doesn't apply to "businesses", it applies to government. Second, just how many government places have shower rooms in the first place? Third, what do you mean "unopposed"? You try walking into a women's locker room and see if those women in there don't "oppose" you but quick, and call security. You seem to believe that women in this made-up scenario would stand by cowering at the sight of a fully male-looking man strolling into their locker room and not tell anybody? Even if he said "Oh well, ladies, sorry but you know, I feel transgender today" (or whatever it is that your side thinks will happen like floodgates opening), I assure you, those women are going to call security, and eventually the police would be called. Even if this person continued to use the "Hey, I said I'm a woman" defense, if he was clearly not transgender, he would be arrested for something like causing a disturbance, make the news, etc. Just for a peek at women in showers (which all have stalls and curtains anyway)? It is laughable that you truly "fear" such a scenario EVER happening or what kind of motivation a man would have to have, KNOWING he was going to face at least a security escort. You haven't event thought through HOW this whole "nightmare scenario" situation would occur, nor has the legislature, because bathrooms weren't their real focus to start with. They were more interested in overturning GLBT protections, even those that have been peacefully in place for years, and freezing the minimum wage no matter what local governments felt was right. It is "big government overreach", which is the "New Right's" favorite tacitc even AS they whine about the exact same thing when Federal laws trump theirs.
Last edited by Francois; 09-22-2016 at 12:42 PM..
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