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Since when should one's identity by defined by a State law?
What's hilarious is your presumption that no transgendered are "hurt" by HB2. What's your standard of proof? You said it, so it's true?!?
I'm still stuck on "change gender on a whim."
And, if one of those fellas that looks like he belongs on Duck Dynasty one day realizes that he's known his whole life that he was really a woman, then I fully support his right to therapy, evaluation, gender reassignment procedures, and so forth.
Once he's completed reassignment in his own way (which means he identifies as "she" by this point), then I welcome her to the ladies' room.
And, no... that doesn't mean that there is an absent penis. Not everyone has that portion of the reassignment done, for medical reasons, cost reasons, or just personal feelings about the subject.
But, these people are now living as women, dressing as women, and they are no more likely to prey on women in a restroom than other women who were born with vaginas.
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Right, I'm with you. They completed their reassignment, so they go to the women's room. That is exactly what HB2 very clearly says too.
The only difference between HB2 and the Charlotte law in regards to bathrooms is HB2 prevents men with no intention of identifying as female from entering the women's room. They could technically, on a whim, decide to be female to creep on women. With HB2, you must transition.
Well, now that we know that Republicans were storing completed ballots in Orange County, we now know why Republicans are so worried about voter fraud, eh?
I mean, using your logic. And, no, I don't think 75% of the people in this state ever gave a crap about the bathrooms and who was in them unless someone rolled in that clearly did not belong in the restroom and set about spying on or attempting to molest the occupants of said bathroom.
I think rape is terrible. That goes for the rape of men and boys, too.
Maybe your wife is a bigot. Maybe you are. Maybe neither of you are and you're just unnecessarily worried about nothing.
Let me guess... you think that conversion therapy works, too.
If so, you and I have nothing to discuss.
i previously stated that it is odd to me that LGB gets lumped in with transgendered because they have opposite messages. I stated specifically that LGB rightly say people should accept they are born that way. Transgender message seems to be don't accept how they are born but what they want to be. Now you are accusing me of supporting conversion therapy.. You keep trying to make me out as a kook but I work in a STEM field. I also cited a pyschiatrist who says transgenderism is a delusion and you sitll have not responded to that. He is also kook that supports conversion therapy?
this is what I mean about Democrats trying to link things that are unrelated, such as if you oppose gay marriage you are also a racist or sexist. you are trying to prove that i'm wrong on this issue by suggesting that i'm wrong on another completely unrelated issue. you still haven't even described how a man can be a woman. it seems to be considered a woman, a man needs to show he has a uterus and ovaries at a minimum. gender is based on anatomy and type of reproductive system.
talking about rape of men and boys hasa nothing to do with the issue of men going into women bathrooms and lockerrooms and it is obviously much less common, and obviously many men can overpower many women and most if not all little girls.
anyway, this issue has been beat to death on this forum. my last post on it.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 10-20-2016 at 04:40 PM..
I love how they still haven't shown any quote from the bill that shows discrimination. lol
Actually, why do we have to? Giggle if you want, but I'm confident you have no clue what it actually says or you would understand why it is discriminatory.
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Lol lordwillin02's understanding of the law is irrelevant. You and I were having a discussion today with some back and forth on discrimination by HB2 towards transgenders. You've shown zero discrimination stated in the law, while I'm sitting here kindly asking for an insight into your way of thinking. Y'all have got to be trolling me if you still after 12 hours can't point out a single sentence that shows intolerance and discrimination towards transgenders. All I've seen by most is I'm voting the party's way. Native_Son at least cites local government rights as a reason to be against the law. Everyone else says its bad just because, and they will vote accordingly.
PART III. PROTECTION OF RIGHTS IN EMPLOYMENT AND PUBLIC
ACCOMMODATIONS
SECTION 3.1. G.S. 143-422.2 reads as rewritten:
"§ 143-422.2. Legislative declaration.
(a) It is the public policy of this State to protect and safeguard the right and opportunity
of all persons to seek, obtain and hold employment without discrimination or abridgement on
account of race, religion, color, national origin, age, biological sex or handicap by employers
which regularly employ 15 or more employees
Is this clear to you yet or are you being deliberately obtuse?
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It is still not quite clear why you find this law to be discriminatory towards transgenders. Let me explain my confusion again. We both agree, as stated in post number 111, that once an individual performs a sex-change, they should be allowed to enter the new gender's bathroom. The law allows for that, provided they change their birth certificate which only takes a notarized letter. Here is the legal definition of "biological sex", and the process in which one could change their "biological sex".
The legal definition in NC for "biological sex" is stated in § 115C-521.2 (a) (1):
Biological sex. – The physical condition of being male or female, which is
stated on a person's birth certificate.
Source: H2v4.pdf
An individual in NC is legally allowed to change their sex on their birth certificate as stated in § 130A-118 (b) (4):
A written request from an individual is received by the State Registrar to
change the sex on that individual's birth record because of sex reassignment
surgery, if the request is accompanied by a notarized statement from the
physician who performed the sex reassignment surgery or from a physician
licensed to practice medicine who has examined the individual and can
certify that the person has undergone sex reassignment surgery.
Source: gs_130a-118.pdf
I think the State has given true transgenders a path towards their goal of identifying with their new gender, which includes using the bathroom and equal employment under the law. It also protects the rest of us from fake-transgenders entering into the wrong bathroom, which the Charlotte law allowed.
If your issue is that the State should not decide who is what gender, then I ask how you plan to prevent the individuals who go out of their way to abuse laws like Charlotte's. Source: Seattle man
I realize you will still vote accordingly, but we have to agree that truly this bill does nothing to harm transgenders, and even adds employment rights for them ("§ 143-422.2 (a) ).
We may never agree on the facts about this law, and that is unfortunate. I think the DNC, DNC donors, and the special interest groups funded by the DNC donors have spread so many lies about this bill and the GOP that no one even looks at the facts of the law. Everything I have just typed out is easily viewed on the Wikipedia page with no legal jargon, and still people argue about this.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConcernedCitizenClinton
It is still not quite clear why you find this law to be discriminatory towards transgenders. Let me explain my confusion again. We both agree, as stated in post number 111, that once an individual performs a sex-change, they should be allowed to enter the new gender's bathroom. The law allows for that, provided they change their birth certificate which only takes a notarized letter. Here is the legal definition of "biological sex", and the process in which one could change their "biological sex".
The legal definition in NC for "biological sex" is stated in § 115C-521.2 (a) (1):
Biological sex. – The physical condition of being male or female, which is
stated on a person's birth certificate.
Source: H2v4.pdf
An individual in NC is legally allowed to change their sex on their birth certificate as stated in § 130A-118 (b) (4):
A written request from an individual is received by the State Registrar to
change the sex on that individual's birth record because of sex reassignment
surgery, if the request is accompanied by a notarized statement from the
physician who performed the sex reassignment surgery or from a physician
licensed to practice medicine who has examined the individual and can
certify that the person has undergone sex reassignment surgery.
Source: gs_130a-118.pdf
I think the State has given true transgenders a path towards their goal of identifying with their new gender, which includes using the bathroom and equal employment under the law. It also protects the rest of us from fake-transgenders entering into the wrong bathroom, which the Charlotte law allowed.
If your issue is that the State should not decide who is what gender, then I ask how you plan to prevent the individuals who go out of their way to abuse laws like Charlotte's. Source: Seattle man
I realize you will still vote accordingly, but we have to agree that truly this bill does nothing to harm transgenders, and even adds employment rights for them ("§ 143-422.2 (a) ).
We may never agree on the facts about this law, and that is unfortunate. I think the DNC, DNC donors, and the special interest groups funded by the DNC donors have spread so many lies about this bill and the GOP that no one even looks at the facts of the law. Everything I have just typed out is easily viewed on the Wikipedia page with no legal jargon, and still people argue about this.
Not every state allows people to change their gender on their birth certificate. Appartly you're good with out of state visitors not being able to use public restrooms. Being forced to carry your birth certificate in case of a challenge smacks of Nazi Germany. I guess you're good with that.
Sex reassignment surgery is at the end of a lengthy process & some transgender individuals can't afford it. According to HB2, individuals who look like a woman but haven't had the surgery to change their plumbing need to hold it or use the men's room. You're OK with that too.
So with the inverse, you're OK with fake transgenders using the wrong restrooms and creeping out the rest of the patrons? Repealing HB2 would allow that if cities like Charlotte and Seattle have their way.
It says in the law special exceptions are allowed to provide single occupancy restrooms.
I accept that some out of Towner's may be stuck in a hard place. I suggest protesting in their states for the right to change their sex like NC provides. Those states are Idaho, Kansas, Ohio, and Tennessee.
How do you suggest preventing the abuse of Charlotte style laws? The majority of the less than 1% of the population are protected under this law, and the rest of society can use the restroom without creeps.
Last edited by ConcernedCitizenClinton; 10-21-2016 at 09:01 AM..
Reason: Specifically called out states which do not change sex on certificate
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