NC Has 10MM People and 9.3MM Hogs (New Bern, Lenoir: how much, legal)
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I wonder if that's where all the factimates in your earlier post came from?
We should absolutely be protecting our drinking water and environment in general from excessive and negiligent actions by the production hog farms. I've been on one - though 20+ years ago now - and wonder if others have as well.
I noted the link was from an organization with an axe to grind, including this hyperbolic statement:
Quote:
In 1999 when Hurricane Floyd hit the state, the Tar, Neuse,
Roanoke, Pamlico, New, and Cape Fear Rivers were deluged
with 120 million gallons of hog waste. Nearly all of
the aquatic life died. Many of the lagoons were several feet
under water, turning the countryside into a cesspool of
excrement and drowned hogs.
I wonder if that's where all the factimates in your earlier post came from?
We should absolutely be protecting our drinking water and environment in general from excessive and negiligent actions by the production hog farms. I've been on one - though 20+ years ago now - and wonder if others have as well.
I noted the link was from an organization with an axe to grind, including this hyperbolic statement:
Quote:
In 1999 when Hurricane Floyd hit the state, the Tar, Neuse,
Roanoke, Pamlico, New, and Cape Fear Rivers were deluged
with 120 million gallons of hog waste. Nearly all of
the aquatic life died. Many of the lagoons were several feet
under water, turning the countryside into a cesspool of
excrement and drowned hogs.
Hyperbolic? Somewhat, but not by much. Here's another description of the damage from Floyd:
"In October 1999 those lagoons washed out in the flooding following Hurricane Floyd. The waste, mixed with the floating bodies of between 30,000 and 100,000 dead hogs, and with waste from flooded sewage plants, choked coastal rivers and washed into Pamlico and Core Sounds. There the waste created a 350-square mile dead zone, devoid of oxygen and of life, in the nation's second largest estuary. The state's $1 billion fishing industry is expected to suffer severely as a result of the flooding."
I'd say a "350-square mile dead zone" isn't too far from "nearly all the aquatic life died.", especially as it relates to the Pamlico and Core Sounds.
"I noted the link was from an organization with an axe to grind, including this hyperbolic statement"|:
in 1999 when Hurricane Floyd hit the state, the Tar, Neuse,
Roanoke, Pamlico, New, and Cape Fear Rivers were deluged
with 120 million gallons of hog waste. Nearly all of
the aquatic life died. Many of the lagoons were several feet
under water, turning the countryside into a cesspool of
excrement and drowned hogs.
hyperbole = exaggerated.....guess you'd have to ask the poor folks downstream if it was exaggerated.
Hyperbolic? Somewhat, but not by much. Here's another description of the damage from Floyd:
"In October 1999 those lagoons washed out in the flooding following Hurricane Floyd. The waste, mixed with the floating bodies of between 30,000 and 100,000 dead hogs, and with waste from flooded sewage plants, choked coastal rivers and washed into Pamlico and Core Sounds. There the waste created a 350-square mile dead zone, devoid of oxygen and of life, in the nation's second largest estuary. The state's $1 billion fishing industry is expected to suffer severely as a result of the flooding."
I'd say a "350-square mile dead zone" isn't too far from "nearly all the aquatic life died.", especially as it relates to the Pamlico and Core Sounds.
let me restate each time - we have to have reasonable protections in place, and abatement measures required, when all industries act negligently that harm the environment, food chain, and drinking water supplies we rely on.
By your own numbers and a quick Google search, 350 square miles is 15% of the area of the Albemarle/Pamlico basin.
Until Matthew did much the same further south, we had never seen anything like Hurricane Floyd. But notice the issues that occurred in Floyd were largely improved in the ensuing years.
let me restate each time - we have to have reasonable protections in place, and abatement measures required, when all industries act negligently that harm the environment, food chain, and drinking water supplies we rely on.
And you are satisfied that we do, at this time, in this state, as it relates to hog farms? (see below)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal
By your own numbers and a quick Google search, 350 square miles is 15% of the area of the Albemarle/Pamlico basin.
The information I referenced didn't mention the Albemarle Sound. But regardless, you're ok with a dead zone equal to 15% of the Pamlico and Core Sounds? At what point do you believe a problem would exist? 50%? 75%? 100%?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal
But notice the issues that occurred in Floyd were largely improved in the ensuing years.
Really? How so? Others (likely with more knowledge of the situation than a realtor in Raleigh) have this to say:
"Along the lower Neuse River alone, Rick Dove said he’s seen more than a dozen hog lagoons swamped. He thinks comparisons to Floyd are apt. As I’m flying, it’s almost like I’m back in time to 1999,” Dove said last week. “I flew Floyd just like I’m flying Hurricane Matthew. And I can tell you, its impact on the animal industry is almost identical.”
"Steve Wing, an epidemiologist at the University of North Carolina, offers a more terse admonition. “Storing vast quantities of fecal waste in flood plains is a serious and preventable public health threat,” he said."
"State environmental officials insist they learned lessons from Floyd. The previous year, the state had put a moratorium on building new farms with more than 250 hogs and expanding existing large farms. After the hurricane, it bought out 42 hog operations located in the floodplain, essentially removing 103 waste lagoons. Other lagoons were relocated to higher ground and, in some cases, re-engineered to withstand inundation.
Yet the effort remains unfinished, with “at least” 150 facilities that the state never closed, according to Michelle Nowlin, a professor of environmental law at Duke University. Many critics maintain that the moratorium contains loopholes that have long rendered the bill ineffective."
"I noted the link was from an organization with an axe to grind, including this hyperbolic statement"|:
in 1999 when Hurricane Floyd hit the state, the Tar, Neuse,
Roanoke, Pamlico, New, and Cape Fear Rivers were deluged
with 120 million gallons of hog waste. Nearly all of
the aquatic life died. Many of the lagoons were several feet
under water, turning the countryside into a cesspool of
excrement and drowned hogs.
hyperbole = exaggerated.....guess you'd have to ask the poor folks downstream if it was exaggerated.
the number of swamped lagoons was tallied at 14 total after Matthew by every source I've seen from both sides of the coin.
15% isn't "nearly all". That's my point. If a summer thunderstorm produced 2%, that would be too much, because it meant negligence in either law or implementation. But an unheard-of event doesn't mean those things. Was there significant and short-term destruction from Floyd? Absolutely. Is the aftermath of Floyd harming our environment still today? If yes, then we should have spent more money cleaning it up then. Of course I'd agree to that.
Whether I'm a Realtor in Raleigh has less to do with it than being a lifelong state resident, and someone who suffered property loss because of Floyd. Certainly since I don't sell homes in the eastern part of the state, I have nothing to gain economically. Pray tell us how you earn your living, and how long you've lived in the eastern part of the state.
But from my perspective - and the perspective of many - there's a lot of extremist positions from the "left" on issues like this. Most riverkeepers and Southern Environmental Law Center folks (like Ms Nowlin) I've read from want zero waste, and that's not realistic (even from your and my waste, 60-some million gallons of which spilled during Matthew). Conversely, those that disagree with them are said to want the planet ruined, babies killed, and the aged euthanized. Why must we paint each other on the fringes?
15% isn't "nearly all". That's my point. If a summer thunderstorm produced 2%, that would be too much, because it meant negligence in either law or implementation. But an unheard-of event doesn't mean those things. Was there significant and short-term destruction from Floyd? Absolutely. Is the aftermath of Floyd harming our environment still today? If yes, then we should have spent more money cleaning it up then. Of course I'd agree to that.
I already stipulated 15% (and thats one area, by the way) isn't "nearly all", so there's no point in bringing it up. And you are just making up the 2% number; I'm not at all interested in dealing with your uninformed hypotheticals. And we've now had 2 "unheard of events" in 20 years. Maybe we should start listening?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal
But from my perspective - and the perspective of many - there's a lot of extremist positions from the "left" on issues like this. Most riverkeepers and Southern Environmental Law Center folks (like Ms Nowlin) I've read from want zero waste, and that's not realistic (even from your and my waste, 60-some million gallons of which spilled during Matthew). Conversely, those that disagree with them are said to want the planet ruined, babies killed, and the aged euthanized. Why must we paint each other on the fringes?
LOL, talk about hyperbole. Anyway, here's the deal with you as I see it. You are obviously very right wing, politically, and you always bring every discussion back to a political point of view, even when the issues aren't, or shouldn't be political. And you always attempt to deflect from your true views by cloaking yourself in some sort of veil of moderateness, as if that just absolves you from any responsibility to take a stand or makes you above criticism. It doesn't.
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