REPORT: Abysmal Gay rights record may doom NC’s quest for Amazon HQ (credit, tax credit)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I wonder if Amazon is using this as a tactic to get the finalist locations to increase their bids for what they are willing to pay for Amazon to locate HQ2 in their jurisdictions rather than Jeff Benzos being so concerned with a socially just employment culture in North Carolina.
"Since you are less progressive than Boston, in order to level the playing field, we're going to need X more million dollars to perk our interests in relocating here."
In other words, Jeff Benzos and Amazon want what's best for Jeff Benzos and Amazon.
I honestly don't think that incentives are the major factor here. We're talking about a headquarters facility for one of the most profitable companies in the world that will have thousands of well-compensated employees. Incentives play a much bigger role for economic development deals that don't call for much in the way of talent but when you're talking about attracting top talent, especially for tech, incentives play a much less important role and companies that rely on highly-skilled, educated workforces are willing to pay a premium to have access to that type of workforce. Incentives only truly level the playing field when workforces or potential workforces are similar among competing cities. And yes, state politics absolutely plays a role when it comes to companies' abilities to attract and develop top talent.
^^ All your points are well taken. And I do agree with you that the political and social climate do matter, particularly the more highly specialized and educated the potential workforce are. And NC has had its share of embarrassments, losses, and just not doing the right thing at times (not necessarily for monetary gain but just because it's the right thing to do).
My main point with the incentives is that it would be shocking for Amazon not to be asking for a big incentives package from taxpayers in whatever location they are relocating and if one area has a better perceived social climate over another, they are going to figure out a way to use that to Amazon's financial favor and get the area that is perceived as having a less advantageous social climate to cough up more money to sweeten the deal.
The story that has been around for a while, in tech circles, is Amazon is scared(as are others) to be first major relocation/new HQ to NC post HB2. Raleigh made the cut because of the intellectual capital coming out of the area universities is very attractive.
Yeah, I think Amazon is afraid of picking an antigay state for the headquarters because many have already warned the company it should not go there. The tech and innovation industry is strongly progressive, and gay rights and equality is one of the very most important issues to not only companies in that sector, but the talent pool that these companies need to recruit.
My main point with the incentives is that it would be shocking for Amazon not to be asking for a big incentives package from taxpayers in whatever location they are relocating and if one area has a better perceived social climate over another, they are going to figure out a way to use that to Amazon's financial favor and get the area that is perceived as having a less advantageous social climate to cough up more money to sweeten the deal.
I don't think Amazon is going to need to ask for a big incentives package; they are already being offered pre-emptively by several states and nearly all of the finalists are prepared to offered them because it's just how the game is played these days. Furthermore, it just probably wouldn't be feasible for Amazon to try and get more incentives out of a less socially progressive state because the company would probably wind up spending more than usual to lure people into move there (signing bonuses, increased relocation perks, etc.) whereas it would be a wash, or simply more beneficial, compared to setting up shop in a more socially progressive state. I simply don't think that incentives are going to be an ultimate deciding factor here at all and that's been true even for economic development deals where incentives tend to be enormously high. Toyota-Mazda picked Alabama for its new plant despite the fact that NC offered the company nearly twice as much in incentives.
I don't think Amazon is going to need to ask for a big incentives package; they are already being offered pre-emptively by several states and nearly all of the finalists are prepared to offered them because it's just how the game is played these days. I simply don't think that incentives are going to be an ultimate deciding factor here at all and that's been true even for economic development deals where incentives tend to be enormously high. Toyota-Mazda picked Alabama for its new plant despite the fact that NC offered the company nearly twice as much in incentives.
I'm not saying that incentives for Amazon would be the deciding factor, so I think we agree on that.
And yes, the perceived social climate and quality of life is a huge deciding factor for Amazon's HQ2.
What I do believe is that Amazon is going to use whatever negotiation tactics work to serve its best interests, not the state's (wherever it relocates) best interest. I don't doubt that Toyota played NC and AL against each other as a negation tactic to be more lucrative for Toyota and I have no reason to believe Amazon wouldn't do the same thing.
Even if Amazon values a progressive social climate for its employees (especially the ones at a higher level in the organization), they are still a big business whose primary ethical principal is rooted in profits for its shareholders, not altruism. Meaning they're going to squeeze every cent possible out of the jurisdictions (and taxpayers) where they locate because the prospective host communities are chomping at the bit to bring Amazon in.
I'm not saying that incentives for Amazon would be the deciding factor, so I think we agree on that.
And yes, the perceived social climate and quality of life is a huge deciding factor for Amazon's HQ2.
What I do believe is that Amazon is going to use whatever negotiation tactics work to serve its best interests, not the state's (wherever it relocates) best interest. I don't doubt that Toyota played NC and AL against each other as a negation tactic to be more lucrative for Toyota and I have no reason to believe Amazon wouldn't do the same thing.
Even if Amazon values a progressive social climate for its employees (especially the ones at a higher level in the organization), they are still a big business whose primary ethical principal is rooted in profits for its shareholders, not altruism. Meaning they're going to squeeze every cent possible out of the jurisdictions (and taxpayers) where they locate because the prospective host communities are chomping at the bit to bring Amazon in.
Of course incentives will be a factor and I don't think anyone really denies this. Surely if a state is already offering an incentives package worth, say, $500 million, it wouldn't take much for Amazon to squeeze another $50 million out of them.
Of course incentives will be a factor and I don't think anyone really denies this. Surely if a state is already offering an incentives package worth, say, $500 million, it wouldn't take much for Amazon to squeeze another $50 million out of them.
Understood-- and I do agree with what you're saying.
Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, etc are very gay friendly. In fact, they are the centers of places of sanctuary or peace for millions of gays in states that are less gay friendly. So for them to boycott gay friendly cities because of where they are located is counter productive to helping gay rights.
They are looking at STATE laws. As you know, NC has a shockingly socially regressive legislature who passed Amend 1 and HB2 the minute they took over. While Amend1 was declared unconstitutional, it's still on the books and a bad draw of the supreme Court could theoretically revalidate it (very unlikely, but, it's possible). HB2 was watered down and renamed but still has residuals in a block on certain progressive GLBT laws for a couple of years. And most of all, there is a GOP supermajority who can reinstate any kind of socially regressive law they want over whatever whim, any time they want to woo the Evangelical population for their votes.
Even though the Triangle and Charlotte are the progressive areas of the state, the STATE government still rules those kinds of laws, even in the hippest part of Carrboro or Asheville. Amazon made it clear from the start that "a local culture" (including state laws) in keeping with their workforce was mandatory. Raleigh stayed in the running for as long as it did ONLY because it's a Blue spot in NC, but it's still subject to NC laws which Berger, Moore et al could change if they truly cared about wooing businesses.
Now, I don't really believe that if Amazon were TRULY considering somewhere like Raleigh, they wouldn't look the other way or mention that they sure hoped the Legislature would come around because it literally does affect what kind of talent they attract, when people can choose between West Coast social mores and what they see as "A Red state", especially one where one county over, things aren't always nearly so "friendly".
It is presumed that the loss of Business from HB2 was one of the main reasons the Repubs were arm-twisted into even a half-a$$ed "repeal". I don't think Bezos is really such a Left-Wing crusader that he would refuse a good site based JUST on social politics, but it's certainly an important factor when you're looking into where you will be able to attract the kind of workers you want, to come to.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
