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Old 04-24-2019, 11:29 AM
 
6,269 posts, read 9,980,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel82 View Post
And while I know Charlotte metro is bigger than the Triangle and Charlotte is bigger than Raleigh, I think I was mostly illustrating a point. There is a 300 square mile incorporated area around the BoA stadium that houses 850,000 people. There is coincidentally a 300 square mile incorporated area around the Capitol building with 850,000 people in mostly unbroken development. So while the growth was different for a variety of reasons, the end result is similar. Charlotte’s edge is in the metro, which is much bigger outside those 300 square miles.
If any of this were true, then Raleigh would not have a 511 sq/mile urbanized area with only 1 million residents. The density outside of Raleigh's 300 sq/mile core would be too low to justify the remaining 150,000 people in a 211 sq/mile area. Or to put it another way, you are incorrect.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,658 posts, read 1,847,363 times
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- Charlotte Region is larger than the Triangle Region no matter how one spins it and it will likely remain that way for the remaining lifetimes of everyone here
- Charlotte is larger, but not WAY larger in the sense that one visiting Raleigh/Durham and Charlotte would find a significant difference in the amenities offered in each aside from maybe Uptown Charlotte.
- Wake County WILL eventually pass Meck County in population. No way around it, similar growth rates and a significantly larger land are, it WILL happen and that's just common sense. Meck is unlikely to ever catch back up once this happens.
- Raleigh's city limits are more densely populated than Charlotte's city limits and this will probably remain for several decades or more.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel82 View Post
And while I know Charlotte metro is bigger than the Triangle and Charlotte is bigger than Raleigh, I think I was mostly illustrating a point. There is a 300 square mile incorporated area around the BoA stadium that houses 850,000 people. There is coincidentally a 300 square mile incorporated area around the Capitol building with 850,000 people in mostly unbroken development. So while the growth was different for a variety of reasons, the end result is similar. Charlotte’s edge is in the metro, which is much bigger outside those 300 square miles.
This is a deeply flawed and inaccurate way to try and compare. The MSAs are calculated using commuting patterns for a reason. Simply taking a radius from a given location completely ignores road/highway layout, freeway design (and their ability to allow for distance commuting), and development patterns relative to that location. For example Iredell County was recently added to the Charlotte metro, but Statesville is quite some distance from Uptown Charlotte. However, the route of Interstate 77 allows for commuting from such distance from Statesville. Similarly with Rock Hill, SC. Charlotte is more of the traditional concentric circle layout with a core city surrounded by suburbs.

Likewise if you look at the Triangle the multi-nodal layout that centers around RTP rather than central Raleigh or Durham makes for a highly complex commuting pattern that makes a square mile radius around the Capitol in Raleigh useless for measuring the population of the region. You have 3 cities of significant population and a highway layout that's very unique and non-traditional.

Basically the point is that by trying to use a large radius for comparison you can get areas included that have little to nothing to do with the center of that radius in question depending on the layout of the metro. Because someone is within 300 miles of a city doesn't mean that they regularly commute to that city for work or leisure. This is why Wilmington lost Brunswick to Myrtle Beach and why Raleigh and Durham are in separate MSAs today.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:28 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,692,676 times
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When it comes to the MSAs and CSAs, the Triangle exists within a much more complex context than Charlotte. To its south, the Triangle bumps into Fayetteville's MSA, and to the west, the Triangle bumps into Greensboro's. This is in addition to the interplay between Raleigh and Durham themselves. Following the arc between Greensboro and Fayetteville, you have 5 of the 7 largest cities in the state. If you daisy-chain that onto W-S, you have 6 of the 7 largest. It's a much more complex dynamic to be sorted and understood.
When we look at the largest core cities in the Carolinas' Piedmont, Charlotte exists much more remotely to the others, save for Columbia. This scenario gives Charlotte the advantage of dominating its periphery in all directions in a manner that isn't available to Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, and Winston-Salem in particular.
What I suspect will eventually happen with the Triangle and the Triad is that they'll eventually come together under singular MSAs that mimicked their past unifications, only to be subdivided by Metro Division as is done in other multi-core metros like South Florida, DFW, Los Angeles, NY, etc. I do wonder when that might happen, or what trigger is used to move to that sort of metro description. Maybe there's some sort of total population threshold to reach? I don't know....
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:36 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,692,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Yes, it actually is a ridiculous notion primarily because Raleigh gets to include its suburbs in this comparison but not Charlotte.
To be fair, a much larger chunk of Charlotte's suburbia is in the city itself when compared to NC's other core cities that are physically less than half the land area. In the end, these are all invisible lines that we are talking about here. Take those lines away and Charlotte's still larger, but it's a different sort of comparison when we erase the MSA designations.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
607 posts, read 1,013,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
When it comes to the MSAs and CSAs, the Triangle exists within a much more complex context than Charlotte. To its south, the Triangle bumps into Fayetteville's MSA, and to the west, the Triangle bumps into Greensboro's. This is in addition to the interplay between Raleigh and Durham themselves. Following the arc between Greensboro and Fayetteville, you have 5 of the 7 largest cities in the state. If you daisy-chain that onto W-S, you have 6 of the 7 largest. It's a much more complex dynamic to be sorted and understood.
When we look at the largest core cities in the Carolinas' Piedmont, Charlotte exists much more remotely to the others, save for Columbia. This scenario gives Charlotte the advantage of dominating its periphery in all directions in a manner that isn't available to Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, and Winston-Salem in particular.
What I suspect will eventually happen with the Triangle and the Triad is that they'll eventually come together under singular MSAs that mimicked their past unifications, only to be subdivided by Metro Division as is done in other multi-core metros like South Florida, DFW, Los Angeles, NY, etc. I do wonder when that might happen, or what trigger is used to move to that sort of metro description. Maybe there's some sort of total population threshold to reach? I don't know....
Distances: (Downtown to Downtown)

Winston Salem - Charlotte = 79 Miles
High Point - Charlotte =77 Miles

Winston Salem - Duham-80 Miles
High Point - Durham-68 Miles
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:58 PM
 
661 posts, read 573,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
When it comes to the MSAs and CSAs, the Triangle exists within a much more complex context than Charlotte. To its south, the Triangle bumps into Fayetteville's MSA, and to the west, the Triangle bumps into Greensboro's. This is in addition to the interplay between Raleigh and Durham themselves. Following the arc between Greensboro and Fayetteville, you have 5 of the 7 largest cities in the state. If you daisy-chain that onto W-S, you have 6 of the 7 largest. It's a much more complex dynamic to be sorted and understood.
When we look at the largest core cities in the Carolinas' Piedmont, Charlotte exists much more remotely to the others, save for Columbia. This scenario gives Charlotte the advantage of dominating its periphery in all directions in a manner that isn't available to Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, and Winston-Salem in particular.
What I suspect will eventually happen with the Triangle and the Triad is that they'll eventually come together under singular MSAs that mimicked their past unifications, only to be subdivided by Metro Division as is done in other multi-core metros like South Florida, DFW, Los Angeles, NY, etc. I do wonder when that might happen, or what trigger is used to move to that sort of metro description. Maybe there's some sort of total population threshold to reach? I don't know....
You do know that Charlotte's msa bumps into Hickory-Morganton,Columbia, Greenville-Spartanburg & Triad areas.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,715 posts, read 3,246,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
To be fair, a much larger chunk of Charlotte's suburbia is in the city itself when compared to NC's other core cities that are physically less than half the land area. In the end, these are all invisible lines that we are talking about here. Take those lines away and Charlotte's still larger, but it's a different sort of comparison when we erase the MSA designations.

This is literally everything in a nutshell.
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:27 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,692,676 times
Reputation: 11100
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinablue View Post
Distances: (Downtown to Downtown)

Winston Salem - Charlotte = 79 Miles
High Point - Charlotte =77 Miles

Winston Salem - Duham-80 Miles
High Point - Durham-68 Miles
What is this supposed to prove?
Did we forget that Greensboro is in between Durham and Winston-Salem?

W-S to Greensboro is 29.2 miles
Greensboro to Durham is 53.8 miles
Durham to Raleigh is 22.7 miles
Raleigh to Fayetteville is 58.5 miles
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:38 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,692,676 times
Reputation: 11100
Quote:
Originally Posted by js4life View Post
You do know that Charlotte's msa bumps into Hickory-Morganton,Columbia, Greenville-Spartanburg & Triad areas.
Hickory-Morganton doesn't represent a major core city by anyone's definition in NC. Sure there's a lot of different metropolitan and micropolitan areas that touch each other but that relationship isn't the same as what happens across the northern Piedmont MSAs. Charlotte's MSA also touches Winston-Salem's MSA, but W-S is 77 miles north of Charlotte with nothing of much consequence between them.
As for Spartanburg, it's the smaller side of that combined metro and the city is still 76 miles away from Charlotte. One only has to look at a map and see how its core city isolation plays to Charlotte's MSA advantage and reach. There's no other major city close by to challenge it.
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
607 posts, read 1,013,384 times
Reputation: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
What is this supposed to prove?
Did we forget that Greensboro is in between Durham and Winston-Salem?

W-S to Greensboro is 29.2 miles
Greensboro to Durham is 53.8 miles
Durham to Raleigh is 22.7 miles
Raleigh to Fayetteville is 58.5 miles
It isnt supposed to prove anything. It just shows that while Charlotte may be a bit more removed from Greensboro, the difference in distance from the Triad compared to the Triangle is minimal. Winston-Salem area has CATS vans for commuters for goodness sake.
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