Liberal City in North Carolina (Charlotte, Raleigh: university, live in, restaurant)

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

I think many of us on citydata are well read, but we are not well traveled.

^^ Speak for yourself.

I think you need to get out and see NC like I have then. Once you do you will see that most people seeking a liberal place to live in NC bypass places like Charlotte and Raleigh for more liberal places like Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Asheville, and Durham.

I'm not saying there are zero liberals in other places, just that pound for pound the places I have listed above are the most liberal areas in NC. For a good combination of a more liberal environment plus good job opportunites I would focus on Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and Durham.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

^^ Speak for yourself.

I think you need to get out and see NC like I have then. Once you do you will see that most people seeking a liberal place to live in NC bypass places like Charlotte and Raleigh for more liberal places like Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Asheville, and Durham.

I'm not saying there are zero liberals in other places, just that pound for pound the places I have listed above are the most liberal areas in NC. For a good combination of a more liberal environment plus good job opportunites I would focus on Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and Durham.

What an interesting debate this has turned into!!! Well I won't argue with you because it is not that serious. I know NC well enough not to be fooled by the hype. I am one of the few that has worked in almost every county in this state (trucker). I have also visited much of NC for vacation. I think it is great that many people see those Triangle communities you've listed as liberal. I am well aware of those areas. I just think you are forgeting that those communities together fall short of half of Charlotte's total population. This is why the largest number of votes for Obama came from Meck and the highest percent of votes for Obama came from Durham. If Durham, Carrboro, and Chapel Hill sat in a county with 900,000 people and only 526 sq/mi of land, these communities' liberal status would be over shawdowed by a much larger conservative suburban population. Inner Charlotte is very liberal and is more populated than the Chapel Hills and the Carrboro's. In Charlotte, Chapel Hill and Carrboro are comparable in population to places like Myers Park, Dilworth, and Southpark. In Charlotte, Chapel Hill and Carrboro would be liberal neighborhoods, not towns!!!

If I wished to live in a liberal area in NC with a population of only 57,000 (Chapel Hill), I don't have to leave Charlotte for that. I can just move to South End/Dilworth LOL!!! If I wished to live in a liberal area of NC that has only 17,000 people (Carrboro), I can live in Noda for that LOL!!! If I wanted something liberal like Durham, I have Charlotte's entire I-85 corridor for that LOL!!! The only difference in Charlotte is that all of these liberal areas are connected by common roads and one mass transit authority. Durham, Chapel Hill, and Carrboro are not that connected yet but they are getting there. The Triangle as a whole is just a fragmented version of Charlotte that requires longer drive times to see the entire picture. This is why I laugh at the notion that these Triangle communities are more liberal than inner Charlotte. The size (or lack there of) of these Triangle communities makes the liberal capital claim quite laughable. Why do we have to name small towns as NC's liberal capitals? These towns are neighborhood sized when compared to the larger cities of this state. Carrboro NC is the densest town in the state, however it would be the least densest town if it had 140 sq/mi of land like Raleigh or 280 sq/mi of land like Charlotte. Size is what tends to skew this argument into the small towns' favor.

I like Chapel Hill and Carrboro's liberal vibe very much!!! It is just too small of an area for me. They remind me of some of Charlotte's liberal neighborhoods. I have a hard time seeing them as liberal towns due to their small size. I hope I have cleared up my stance on this topic a little bit before others try to argue with me on this one... I am taking into account the size of these "so called liberal capitals" of NC. This is why I say that Durham (nearly 225,000 pop.) and Charlotte (nearly 700,000 pop.) are the liberal leaders in this state.

[metro.m]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

What an interesting debate this has turned into!!! Well I won't argue with you because it is not that serious. I know NC well enough not to be fooled by the hype. I am one of the few that has worked in almost every county in this state (trucker). I have also visited much of NC for vacation. I think it is great that many people see those Triangle communities you've listed as liberal. I am well aware of those areas. I just think you are forgeting that those communities together fall short of half of Charlotte's total population. This is why the largest number of votes for Obama came from Meck and the highest percent of votes for Obama came from Durham. If Durham, Carrboro, and Chapel Hill sat in a county with 900,000 people and only 526 sq/mi of land, these communities' liberal status would be over shawdowed by a much larger conservative suburban population. Inner Charlotte is very liberal and is more populated than the Chapel Hills and the Carrboro's. In Charlotte, Chapel Hill and Carrboro are comparable in population to places like Myers Park, Dilworth, and Southpark. In Charlotte, Chapel Hill and Carrboro would be liberal neighborhoods, not towns!!!

If I wished to live in a liberal area in NC with a population of only 57,000 (Chapel Hill), I don't have to leave Charlotte for that. I can just move to South End/Dilworth LOL!!! If I wished to live in a liberal area of NC that has only 17,000 people (Carrboro), I can live in Noda for that LOL!!! If I wanted something liberal like Durham, I have Charlotte's entire I-85 corridor for that LOL!!! The only difference in Charlotte is that all of these liberal areas are connected by common roads and one mass transit authority. Durham, Chapel Hill, and Carrboro are not that connected yet but they are getting there. The Triangle as a whole is just a fragmented version of Charlotte that requires longer drive times to see the entire picture. This why I laugh at the notion that these Triangle communities are more liberal than inner Charlotte. The size (or lack there of) of these Triangle communities makes the liberal capital claim quite laughable. Why do we have to name small towns as NC's liberal capitals? These towns are neighborhood sized when compared to the larger cities of this state. Carrboro NC is the densest town in the state, yet it would not be this way if it had 140 sq/mi of land like Raleigh or 280 sq/mi of land like Charlotte. Size is what tends to skew this argument into the small towns' favor.

Why do you insist on making Charlotte out to be something it isn't? No amount of stats is going to make Charlotte a typical liberal city. Get over it. You're envy for traits of another city is mind boggling.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

What an interesting debate this has turned into!!! Well I won't argue with you because it is not that serious. I know NC well enough not to be fooled by the hype. I am one of the few that has worked in almost every county in this state (trucker). I have also visited much of NC for vacation. I think it is great that many people see those Triangle communities you've listed as liberal. I am well aware of those areas. I just think you are forgeting that those communities together fall short of half of Charlotte's total population. This is why the largest number of votes for Obama came from Meck and the highest percent of votes for Obama came from Durham. If Durham, Carrboro, and Chapel Hill sat in a county with 900,000 people and only 526 sq/mi of land, these communities' liberal status would be over shawdowed by a much larger conservative suburban population. Inner Charlotte is very liberal and is more populated than the Chapel Hills and the Carrboro's. In Charlotte, Chapel Hill and Carrboro are comparable in population to places like Myers Park, Dilworth, and Southpark. In Charlotte, Chapel Hill and Carrboro would be liberal neighborhoods, not towns!!!

If I wished to live in a liberal area in NC with a population of only 57,000 (Chapel Hill), I don't have to leave Charlotte for that. I can just move to South End/Dilworth LOL!!! If I wished to live in a liberal area of NC that has only 17,000 people (Carrboro), I can live in Noda for that LOL!!! If I wanted something liberal like Durham, I have Charlotte's entire I-85 corridor for that LOL!!! The only difference in Charlotte is that all of these liberal areas are connected by common roads and one mass transit authority. Durham, Chapel Hill, and Carrboro are not that connected yet but they are getting there. The Triangle as a whole is just a fragmented version of Charlotte that requires longer drive times to see the entire picture. This is why I laugh at the notion that these Triangle communities are more liberal than inner Charlotte. The size (or lack there of) of these Triangle communities makes the liberal capital claim quite laughable. Why do we have to name small towns as NC's liberal capitals? These towns are neighborhood sized when compared to the larger cities of this state. Carrboro NC is the densest town in the state, however it would be the least densest town if it had 140 sq/mi of land like Raleigh or 280 sq/mi of land like Charlotte. Size is what tends to skew this argument into the small towns' favor.

I like Chapel Hill and Carrboro's liberal vibe very much!!! It is just too small of an area for me. They remind me of some of Charlotte's liberal neighborhoods. I have a hard time seeing them as liberal towns due to their small size. I hope I have cleared up my stance on this topic a little bit before others try to argue with me on this one... I am taking into account the size of these "so called liberal capitals" of NC. This is why I say that Durham (nearly 225,000 pop.) and Charlotte (nearly 700,000 pop.) are the liberal leaders in this state.

^^ I think your error is that you are mistakenly using population and land area differences in all your comparisons. But this thread is not about a comparison of populations or area. Pound for pound Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Durham and Asheville are much more liberal than Charlotte and Raleigh. Sure Raleigh and Charlotte have larger populations than those other areas and they have some liberal people in their city, but it's all relative. Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and Asheville, while smaller in population compared to those two, have a higher % of their population that hold liberal beleifs and values than other places in NC.

You seem to have a difficult time grasping the difference between gross population numbers and the concept "density" within that metric. It is an easy mistake to make I guess, but in the end your assumptions are incorrect.

Like I've said before, the proof is in the pudding. Most people looking for liberal environments in NC gravitate towards Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Durham and Asheville for a reason. Becuase they are the most liberal areas in the state of NC. No amount of spin can change the facts!

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

^^ I think your error is that you are mistakenly using population and land area differences in all your comparisons. But this thread is not about a comparison of populations or area. Pound for pound Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Durham and Asheville are much more liberal than Charlotte and Raleigh. Sure Raleigh and Charlotte have larger populations than those other areas and they have some liberal people in their city, but it's all relative. Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and Asheville, while smaller in population compared to those two, have a higher % of their population that hold liberal beleifs and values than other places in NC.

You seem to have a difficult time grasping the difference between gross population numbers and the concept "density" within that metric. It is an easy mistake to make I guess, but in the end your assumptions are incorrect.

Like I've said before, the proof is in the pudding. Most people looking for liberal environments in NC gravitate towards Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Durham and Asheville for a reason. Becuase they are the most liberal areas in the state of NC. No amount of spin can change the facts!

One block of Noda has a higher % of liberals than the entire San Fran bay area. Does this make Charlotte more liberal than San Fran? HECK NOOOOO!!! Liberalism is more vast in San Fran. This is why we tend to give liberalism in NC a bad name because we crown small towns as liberal capitals. We are misleading the public when we do this. We should say that these are "small liberal towns, but". That is the proper way to advertise these small towns as liberals. In 2004, Bumcombe and Wake counties voted for Bush. Meck and Durham voted for Kerry. Nuff said!!!

[mm34b]

Out of NC's 100 counties, these 11 counties provided Obama with 60% or more of their vote:

Durham County - 75.54%
Orange - 71.84%
Hertford - 70.49%
Warren - 68.68%
Edgecombe - 67.14%
Northamton - 65.03%
Bertie - 64.93%
Halifax - 63.73%
Vance - 63.03%
Mecklenburg - 61.83%
Anson - 60.34%

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

One block of Noda has a higher % of liberals than the entire San Fran bay area. Does this make Charlotte more liberal than San Fran? HECK NOOOOO!!! Liberalism is more vast in San Fran. This is why we tend to give liberalism in NC a bad name because we crown small towns as liberal capitals. We are misleading the public when we do this. We should say that these are "small liberal towns, but". That is the proper way to advertise these small towns as liberals. In 2004, Bumcombe and Wake counties voted for Bush. Meck and Durham voted for Kerry. Nuff said!!!

I can see you are confused by mixing metrics. Sorry, but you still don't get it. A real comparison for the example you gave would be to compare the population of Charlotte to the population of San Fran and then look at what % of the respective populations consider themselves liberal. That is how you look at density. It doesn't matter that San Fran is much bigger than Charlotte. It is simply about the % of overall population that is liberal leaning.

The smaller areas of Asheville, Chapel Hill, Durham, and Carrboro are the most liberal areas of NC becasue they have the densist population of liberal leaning people. That's a fact.

I can't help that you don't like places with smaller populations than Charlotte. That is your issue. But you need to realize that just becasue a place is bigger than another doesn't make it more liberal, more conservative ect. Again, that is why most people moving to NC looking for a liberal vibe move to Chapel Hill, Asheville, Carrboro, and Durham.

The facts are right in front of you. Nobody is trying "crown" a city here and I'm not advertising them either. I'm just answering the OP's question. You can contine to ignore the facts and run some more fuzzy math, but that doesn't change the truth.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

I can see you are confused by mixing metrics. Sorry, but you still don't get it. A real comparison for the example you gave would be to compare the population of Charlotte to the population of San Fran and then look at what % of the respective populations consider themselves liberal. That is how you look at density. It doesn't matter that San Fran is much bigger than Charlotte. It is simply about the % of overall population that is liberal leaning.

The smaller areas of Asheville, Chapel Hill, Durham, and Carrboro are the most liberal areas of NC becasue they have the densist population of liberal leaning people. That's a fact.

I can't help that you don't like places with smaller populations than Charlotte. That is your issue. But you need to realize that just becasue a place is bigger than another doesn't make it more liberal, more conservative ect. Again, that is why most people moving to NC looking for a liberal vibe move to Chapel Hill, Asheville, Carrboro, and Durham.

The facts are right in front of you. Nobody is trying "crown" a city here and I'm not advertising them either. I'm just answering the OP's question. You can contine to ignore the facts and run some more fuzzy math, but that doesn't change the truth.

Calm down buddy!!! It is not that serious LOL!!! If you say Asheville and Carrboro are more liberal, I believe you!!! I must learn to ignore the tens of thousands of liberals and creatively dressed individuals here in inner Charlotte; for they are much fewer than the amount in ASHEVILLE and CARRBORO LOL!!!

[cyntmac]

Look, this last election does not a liberal area make. It is one election. The politics of the area have to be looked at. Look at local elections. That will tell you much. And you have to go back more than a year of course. I personally would not rec a place like Asheville to someone like this because the general area it is located in is very conservative. (compared to much of the US) That doesn't mean there aren't liberals in the surrounding areas as well but I think the politics of the area might be of more importance.

These threads are really hard to answer because the OP is usually vague about what it is they find most important. The political environment is usually important to someone asking for liberal. Often the so called "liberal" does not want a diverse population. That is their perogative. Was this OP vague on purpose?

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by cyntmac

Look, this last election does not a liberal area make. It is one election. The politics of the area have to be looked at. Look at local elections. That will tell you much. And you have to go back more than a year of course. I personally would not rec a place like Asheville to someone like this because the general area it is located in is very conservative. (compared to much of the US) That doesn't mean there aren't liberals in the surrounding areas as well but I think the politics of the area might be of more importance.

These threads are really hard to answer because the OP is usually vague about what it is they find most important. The political environment is usually important to someone asking for liberal. Often the so called "liberal" does not want a diverse population. That is their perogative. Was this OP vague on purpose?

They want diversity as long as it is a diverse group of fellow liberals!!!