scary repercussions (Charlotte, Raleigh, Henderson: for sale, houses, school)

[Apple Annie]

I understand your post completely Raleigh Guy. However, the gyst of my comments are in relation to Western NC, in the mountain range(s). If you are referring to the Piedmont and toward the east, it is a different story and a different type of development. So we are not using the same brush to paint a picture here. The very reason folks want to live here is changing. If you drive the Blue Ridge Parkway, it is very evident the raping of the land that is going on.

The farms in the valleys here are very viable and they want to stay in business. This is "Apple Country" here in Hendersonville, and apple producers and other products from apples are a big business here, however, slowly dwindling. I am sure that the farmers know about all the resources available to them; it is the locals and natives who are forming groups (albiet a little late) to restrict development. Within the past year alone, there is a desperate attempt to finally get some zoning in place in the County. Many big box FL & SC developers took advantage of the "no County zoning" to slap up huge subdivisions of over 400 homes each and as I mentioned, gated communities on the slopes and ridgetops. It just doesn't work here and that is what they are doing with the farmland. It's plain ugly with the backdrop of the Blue Ridge Mountains, almost a sacrilege to the land. Not sure if you've been over here to see it, but I know from where I speak.

As for my maybe looking for land in TN or KY, yes. But not to develop or or exploit. No way. Possibly a retirement home someday, or a legacy to my children whom I put through college(s) on my own. There just isn't going to be enough rural land where beauty prevails, and I cannot think of a better gift than a gift of nature which I have instilled in my children and grandchildren to preserve.

As for city/town planners and officials, that is another issue. In Henderson County, we actually have a member of a developer's management on the planning board! Helloooo out there! We have a few very wealthy transplant people on the Commission (but not for long). Everyone is in everyone else's pocket, and the good ole' boy network is alive and well too.

Basically, this beautiful pristine area got "caught with their pants down" as far as zoning and development goes; and I'm not the only one that feels that way.

Hope I've been able to shed a little more perspective on our dilemmas over here.

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

Apple Annie,

I am usually a huge fan of your posts, but on this one I think you missed the mark. I know you are an experienced pro in the field of real estate but I find many of your comments in this particular post to be unfounded.

There is no doubt that Ag producers in NC and throughout the United States struggle to keep their Farms viable in today's changing economy and in light of continually increasing environmental regulations, but this battle has been going on long before any development boom here in NC.

It is my understanding that counties here in NC tax agricultural land at lower rates than developed land, and while it is true that as surrounding property values increase so do agricultural lands to a certain degree, it does not necessarily equate to a 1:1 value increase or tax increase on farmland.

The burden of the blame most definitely does not solely rest on the shoulders of developers. Believe me, I am not a fan of developers, but even I must recognize that there is enough blame to go around. All of these counties that are being ravaged by development have local permitting ordinances, planning departments, as well as city and town councils that are staffed by local residents, many of whom are long time members of their respective communities. It has always been within their power to promote or limit residential and commercial development as their local population sees fit. Any blame for their failure to do so lands squarely on their shoulders.

I am not going to blame farmers for the brunt of these development woes, but to suggest that their only option during these difficult financial times it to be forced to sell to “greedy developers” is far from the truth. There are many state and federal farmland “retirement” and conservation programs made readily available to the Ag producers in this state. If a farm is no longer economically viable the farmer does not necessarily have to cash out by selling to a developer. Farmers have long had the option of participating in these programs or partnering with numerous land conservation organizations, both of which offer to pay competitive rates for their land which in turn will be conserved as open space or converted into vegetated riparian stream buffers or preserved forest land. In many cases the farmer can receive annual payouts for the land he/she puts such conservation easements on while continuing to reside at their current residence and hunt and fish on the land they grew up on.

In the case of conserved forest land, several of these programs even provide for annual harvesting of a certain percentage of timber each year as another revenue stream to the farmer. Bottom line is that even though these programs offer farmers a vialble alternative to retire their farm land while providing them the opportunity to continue to live on their land, with the added bonus of conserving the natural beauty of this great state, many Farmers do not participate in these programs simply because they can make more money if they sell to developers instead.

Finally, (and I don’t mean to make this personal), but you bemoan the fact that developers are forcing up prices of this agriculture land in NC which forces farmers to sell, yet you yourself on several occasions on this very forum have pointed out that you are exploring opportunities to invest in undeveloped land in Tennessee and Kentucky. If that is in fact the case, do you not consider yourself one of these "profiteers" contributing to this process that you publicly condemn?

[tasmtairy]

I have lived in Mt. Airy for 7 years now and have seen a tremendous amount of growth to the point of it being the " best place to retire." I got gas today at 2.72 a gallon. The cost of living is less but the wages are a lot less. I am making here what I made in CA in 1990. Really!! I am only here because of family, if it wasn't for that, then down the hill I would go where the $$ is, Concord, Huntersville, Mooresville. Lots of people, lots of everything. You make sacrifices to live in NC. There are 2 classes in Surry County, rich and poor!!

[BrianH1970]

Originally Posted by tasmtairy

I have lived in Mt. Airy for 7 years now and have seen a tremendous amount of growth to the point of it being the " best place to retire." I got gas today at 2.72 a gallon. The cost of living is less but the wages are a lot less. I am making here what I made in CA in 1990. Really!! I am only here because of family, if it wasn't for that, then down the hill I would go where the $$ is, Concord, Huntersville, Mooresville. Lots of people, lots of everything. You make sacrifices to live in NC. There are 2 classes in Surry County, rich and poor!!

But not nearly as many jobs around Concord/Charlotte as you would be lead to believe, at least not enough to keep up with the transplants. Down here it sure seems like there's a thousand people for every one job. I've heard of stories where it took people months to find anything down here. For an area supposedly rich in jobs, it's a little too long in waiting for a lot of folks.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by BrianH1970

But not nearly as many jobs around Concord/Charlotte as you would be lead to believe, at least not enough to keep up with the transplants. Down here it sure seems like there's a thousand people for every one job. I've heard of stories where it took people months to find anything down here. For an area supposedly rich in jobs, it's a little too long in waiting for a lot of folks.

Hi Brian I think the low umemployment rate means that competition for really good jobs is tight - which in turn makes it tough for most folks to just waltz in here and land a job right away. The best advice, I think, is that no one should relocate here without a job to come to first

[NYer]

When I watch the Wake Forest Zoning meetings, the community members- w/ both southern & northern accents, fight for smaller, less dense, etc. etc... then, invariably, a board member will talk about the freedom of the landowner to use & profit from his land. Then the proposition goes right through. Or, if it is controvesial, it is tabled till a later meeting, when it goes through, usually with only minor adjustments.

This is just how the density got crazy in my old town... natives & conservationists are labled as racists or NIMBY's, or, socialists, and then you can guess at the rest of the story.

[BrianH1970]

Originally Posted by lovesMountains

Hi Brian I think the low umemployment rate means that competition for really good jobs is tight - which in turn makes it tough for most folks to just waltz in here and land a job right away. The best advice, I think, is that no one should relocate here without a job to come to first

Biggest mistake you can make is coming here without a job in the first place. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER assume that you'll be able to land one easily. Even if you have to separate from a spouse for a couple of months, if you have something offered you're a total fool if you don't take it.

[cindy175]

"The burden of the blame most definitely does not solely rest on the shoulders of developers. Believe me, I am not a fan of developers, but even I must recognize that there is enough blame to go around. All of these counties that are being ravaged by development have local permitting ordinances, planning departments, as well as city and town councils that are staffed by local residents, many of whom are long time members of their respective communities. It has always been within their power to promote or limit residential and commercial development as their local population sees fit. Any blame for their failure to do so lands squarely on their shoulders."

Bingo! Hit the nail on the head North Raleigh Guy. Local landowners and/or local politicians/officials provide the thrust for most development in the U.S. It's the rare place where a major, distant corporation happens to have owned zillions of acres of land for decades and then decides to sell or develop it (happened to parts of Florida).

If "they don't want it" it--development-- won't happen. Locals need to make their voices heard, form groups, press the pols/officials to say "enough already"!

[NYer]

Originally Posted by BrianH1970

Biggest mistake you can make is coming here without a job in the first place. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER assume that you'll be able to land one easily. Even if you have to separate from a spouse for a couple of months, if you have something offered you're a total fool if you don't take it.

Yep. This place is crawling with talented people, eager to work- native & transplant, plus tons of young people newly graduated from the local schools.
It is wrong to think this is some hick town just waiting for a sophisticated newcomer!
Now, not to be totally discouraging, there are tons of jobs here. But they will not fall into your lap.
I have met people who thought otherwise, and relo'd here w/o a job, taking on a mortgage, with very stressful consequences.
Sort of like the gold rush in the 1800's, I suppose, with people streaming to CA for gold, having to actually work at a more mundane living when they got there b/c there was not gold tumbling out of the streams!

[nyxmike]

Am I the only one who thinks NC gets better the more it grows?

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by Apple Annie

I understand your post completely Raleigh Guy. However, the gyst of my comments are in relation to Western NC, in the mountain range(s). If you are referring to the Piedmont and toward the east, it is a different story and a different type of development. So we are not using the same brush to paint a picture here. The very reason folks want to live here is changing. If you drive the Blue Ridge Parkway, it is very evident the raping of the land that is going on.

The farms in the valleys here are very viable and they want to stay in business. This is "Apple Country" here in Hendersonville, and apple producers and other products from apples are a big business here, however, slowly dwindling. I am sure that the farmers know about all the resources available to them; it is the locals and natives who are forming groups (albiet a little late) to restrict development. Within the past year alone, there is a desperate attempt to finally get some zoning in place in the County. Many big box FL & SC developers took advantage of the "no County zoning" to slap up huge subdivisions of over 400 homes each and as I mentioned, gated communities on the slopes and ridgetops. It just doesn't work here and that is what they are doing with the farmland. It's plain ugly with the backdrop of the Blue Ridge Mountains, almost a sacrilege to the land. Not sure if you've been over here to see it, but I know from where I speak.

As for my maybe looking for land in TN or KY, yes. But not to develop or or exploit. No way. Possibly a retirement home someday, or a legacy to my children whom I put through college(s) on my own. There just isn't going to be enough rural land where beauty prevails, and I cannot think of a better gift than a gift of nature which I have instilled in my children and grandchildren to preserve.

As for city/town planners and officials, that is another issue. In Henderson County, we actually have a member of a developer's management on the planning board! Helloooo out there! We have a few very wealthy transplant people on the Commission (but not for long). Everyone is in everyone else's pocket, and the good ole' boy network is alive and well too.

Basically, this beautiful pristine area got "caught with their pants down" as far as zoning and development goes; and I'm not the only one that feels that way.

Hope I've been able to shed a little more perspective on our dilemmas over here.

Yeah, not having zoning in that county is a disaster! I am glad to hear you don't plan to exploit land in TN and KY. Hopefully future generations will share your feelings and resist the temptation to do so if and when that area sees the development boom come their way.

Keep fighting the good fight in Hendersonville! Too many folks complain about overdevelopment but don't get involved or just move away to another area that has not suffered the same fate yet.