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This is an excerpt from a review on Powells.com of a book by James Webb - "Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America" - that mentions a few things about the people who settled the American South. These attributes of the Scots-Irish aren't necessarily the same as those of the Irish, Italian, and other immigrants who settled in the Northeast - not that one is better than the other, only that they're different.
The bold highlights were done by me. I am posting this to help those of you not from the South to perhaps understand why some Southerners struggle with the influx of folks who aren't from the area.
In my opinion, I think many Southerners have accepted the fact that non-Southerners are moving into the area and that life is changing. This probably isn't an issue with most people. But when tempers flare or feelings are hurt, I think it's because of the things I highlighted.
I think that the Southerners who have problems with the influx of people have problems because: 1) they view all northeners as Ted Kennedy (i.e., elitist liberals), or 2) they believe that this threatens their traditions of less government and/or self-reliance (i.e., northerners want higher taxes, more government). These stereotypes of northerners aren't necessarily true - but they are certainly there.
I'm not posting this to start a flame war, I'm just posting this to help explain some the reasons behind the cultural differences in the Northeast and the South.
"Synopsis:
Written with the storytelling verve that made his novels bestsellers, Scots-Irishman James Webb, Vietnam combat veteran and former Naval Secretary, traces the history of his people's journey. He follows them from their native Scotland through their settlement in Northern Ireland to their eighteenth-century migration to America—and their enormous but largely unrecognized role in the shaping of this country even today. Through engrossing chronicles of the challenges the Scots-Irish faced over the course of some 2,000 years, Webb shows how they developed qualities—acute individualism, dislike of aristocracy, a military tradition—that resulted in their playing a central role in establishing the United States, and that are carried on by the 27 million Americans of Scots-Irish descent who still populate large sections of the South, Midwest, and West.
Born Fighting shows that the Scots-Irish were 40 percent of the Revolutionary War army; they were the pioneers Daniel Boone, Lewis and Clark, Davy Crockett, and Sam Houston; they were the writers Edgar Allan Poe and Mark Twain; and they have given America numerous great military leaders, including Stonewall Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, Audie Murphy, and George S. Patton, as well as most of the soldiers of the Confederacy. It chronicles how the Scots-Irish redefined American politics, creating the populist movement and giving the country a dozen presidents, including Andrew Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton. And it explores how the Scots-Irish culture of isolation, hard luck, stubbornness, and mistrust of the nation's elite formed and still dominates blue-collar America, the military services, the Bible Belt, and country music.
In the tradition of How the Irish Saved Civilization and How the Scots Invented the Modern World, Born Fighting is a distinguished work of cultural history and a human drama that speaks straight to the heart of contemporary America."
Excellent post. I mentioned this same idea on the SC board. Anyone with a detailed knowledge of the history of the south will understand this. I certainly don't expect people not from here to have a detailed understanding, and plenty of people that DO live here don't know it either.
I don't find the passage very enlightening (it's sort of rah-rah), but the idea you're talking about is important. The ideas of self-sufficiency, personal responsibility, and anti-government are very strong. Just look at the culture of the Scottish clans, and it makes sense. Ulster Scots make up a large portion of white southerners - and the south has been much more isolated (in terms of importing/exporting culture) than the northeast, midwest, or west coast.
Areas with greatest proportion of reported Scotch-Irish ancestry
Keep in mind this isn't 'actual' ancestry (if such a thing exists), it's only what people reported. Many people reported "American ancestry" Also, "Scotch-Irish" is a flawed term, and doesn't refer to Roman Catholic Irish that immigrated here in the late 1800's.
".. considerable numbers of Ulster-Scots migrated to the North American colonies throughout the 18th century (450,000 settled in the USA between 1717 and 1770 alone). Disdaining the heavily English regions on the Atlantic coast, most groups of Ulster-Scot settlers crossed into the "western mountains", where their descendants populated the Appalachian regions and the Ohio Valley. Others settled in northern New England, The Carolinas, Georgia and various parts of Eastern Canada."
JAS,
Impressive! Where do you get the idea that northerners want higher taxes? If you read these posts you had to have read the horror stories out of NY and NJ referring to taxes of $6k, $8k, and $10k and more. These northerners are trying to reduce their costs not add more taxes.
We live in a global society where Americans are now working and living in other countries. Florida is like a neighborhood of NYC. We are in a world were you can eat breakfast in NYC, lunch in LA, and dinner in Miami. Yet you site cultural differences between the north and the south. I am glad you posted this. It explains much more than I think you realize.
anonymous,
Great map! What I have experienced here in NC makes more sense now and I can clearly see the areas I want to avoid. Thank you.
Don
Also, the downside to this culture has been evident in history - stubbornness and distrust of government resulted in lack of progress at times, which also included the resistance to abolishing slavery, as well as the slow pace of educational reform in many areas of the South.
The "new South", however, shows that attitudes can change. I think that many southerners have realized that most northerners who move down here don't fit the negative stereotypes that we've had of them over the years. There are still some differences and disagreements, but I don't think the relations as a whole are bad. Technology and mass communication over the last few decades (internet, cable TV, etc) has contributed to a better understanding of "other people" and has removed some of the isolation that historically existed in the south.
The characteristics of these people also explain why college football is huge in the South -- nothing typifies the Scots-Irish better than a simulated battle led by charismatic coaches mixed with regional loyalties and spectators getting "liquored up" before a game!
JAS,
Where do you get the idea that northerners want higher taxes? If you read these posts you had to have read the horror stories out of NY and NJ referring to taxes of $6k, $8k, and $10k and more. These northerners are trying to reduce their costs not add more taxes.
The reason why southerners think about the north being associated with higher taxes is probably because somebody had to vote into power the state/county officials in the north who approved those taxes. And those people would be northerners!
Again, we're talking stereotypes. The fact that there are transplants moving down here for a more affordable cost of living shows that not everybody in the northeast is saying, "Gosh, I think my taxes are too low - I wish they would raise them higher."
it shouldn't come across as a surprise that southerners believe northerners want to change things, politically. the "north = big government" stereotype may not be legitimate, but it is a strong one in the eyes of most southerners. Specifically, 'big government' in the fiscal sense, with high taxes and many government programs.
The perception (at least in the south) is that liberals favor higher taxes, more gov't regulation, and less military spending, whereas conservatives favor lower taxes, less gov't regulation and a stronger military.
From what I can tell, the northeast is pretty liberal. Kerry carried every NE state in 2004, Gore carried every NE state (except New Hampshire) in 2000, Clinton carried every NE state in 1996 and before that in 1992. So in the past 4 elections, only one state northeastern state has voted the same way as NC/SC/VA.
I understand there are conservatives up north. But y'all have to understand that the perception that many southerners have.. kind of like the national perception that southerners are Bush supporters.
Last edited by anonymous; 07-05-2006 at 10:55 AM..
I wouldn't say that the newcomers from the Northeast want higher taxes, they just want the government services and amenities that they've become accustomed to in their home states. There seems to be some kind of disconnect in their minds as to how those services are funded. Probably because they've been paying for them for so many decades, they no longer consider them luxuries.
I wouldn't say that the newcomers from the Northeast want higher taxes, they just want the government services and amenities that they've become accustomed to in their home states. There seems to be some kind of disconnect in their minds as to how those services are funded. Probably because they've been paying for them for so many decades, they no longer consider them luxuries.
This and anonymous' previous post says everything that needs to be said.
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