Charlotte vs Raleigh: No holds barred! (Durham, Cary: neighborhoods, mall, education)

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by metro.m

There are only a handful of notable major areas in the US, I definitely don't consider Charlotte to be one of them. Charlotte is home to two of the largest banks, of coarse it will push the city over the top, so far as GDP is concerned. However that's only ONE way to look at it. Anyone who has been to a real major city will tell you quickly, Charlotte is rather small. Which it is. The only real major cities in the south are Houston, Miami, Atlanta, Dallas, and maybe the Tampa/Orlando area. Charlotte can't even escape the shadows of cities like Nashville and Raleigh. Posting a bunch of stats is not going to convince any sane person that Charlotte is a major city. Don't let the skyline fool you.

So you acknowledge that looking at certain stats is one way of looking at it, then in the next breath say that only an insane person would consider Charlotte a major city? Why are you acting as though it is YOU, and you alone, who creates the definition and sets the bar for what's considered "major"? I happen to believe that "major" can include metro areas with populations less than 5 million while you don't. Neither one of us has an absolute authority we can appeal to in this regard, so just let me have my opinion based on criteria that I deem relevant, and you can have yours. No need to question someone's psychological state of mind; that's disingenuous at best and downright offensive at worst.

Secondly, what "Tampa/Orlando" area? Those are two different cities, two different MSA's, and aren't considered a CSA. Nobody considers them one area in the sense you're talking about.

Thirdly, I have no idea what this nonsense is about Charlotte not being able to "escape the shadows of cities like Nashville and Raleigh." As a city, Raleigh isn't even in the same category as Charlotte and Nashville--and that has more to do with just a skyline.

[metro.m]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

So you acknowledge that looking at certain stats is one way of looking at it, then in the next breath say that only an insane person would consider Charlotte a major city? Why are you acting as though it is YOU, and you alone, who creates the definition and sets the bar for what's considered "major"? I happen to believe that "major" can include metro areas with populations less than 5 million while you don't. Neither one of us has an absolute authority we can appeal to in this regard, so just let me have my opinion based on criteria that I deem relevant, and you can have yours. No need to question someone's psychological state of mind; that's disingenuous at best and downright offensive at worst.

Secondly, what "Tampa/Orlando" area? Those are two different cities, two different MSA's, and aren't considered a CSA. Nobody considers them one area in the sense you're talking about.

Thirdly, I have no idea what this nonsense is about Charlotte not being able to "escape the shadows of cities like Nashville and Raleigh." As a city, Raleigh isn't even in the same category as Charlotte and Nashville--and that has more to do with just a skyline.

If the typical definition of a major city is literally used, then the Raleigh/Durham area would fall under the category of a major metro. However common sense will tell you there are more definitions of what categorizes a major city. Are you honestly trying to tell me Miami, Atlanta, and Charlotte share the same category? I'm really not trying to insult anyone. I'm just being honest.

The only reason I considered Tampa and Orlando to maybe be considered a major metropolitan area is because they are so close. The boundaries between both are almost completely blurred. They have a very powerful impact on central Florida. I remember when I first visited both areas, I had no idea they were so large, just looking at stats alone.

A skyline is not the only defining aspect of a city. In fact Raleigh is about the same size as Nashville. The Triangle metro is slightly larger than the Nashville metro. Nashville's population is counted under city-county limits. The city of Nashville is over 500 sq miles! It makes Charlotte look small land wise. The Triangle and Charlotte area will always be compared with each other. The Charlotte area is only a little bit larger anyway you look at it. Charlotte has an incredible skyline to be such a small area IMO. That's not an insult, that's a complement!!!

[metro.m]

I got this from another poster, I kind of agree.

Small Town <10k
Town 10k -50k
Small City 50k - 100k
Medium City 100k - 500k
Large City 500k - 1m
Small Metropolis <500k
Medium Metropolis 500k - 1m
Large Metropolis 1m - 5m
Major Metropolis 5m - 10m
Mega Metropolis 10m <

[lumbollo]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

.....

Honestly, I am not a big fan of comparing cities using CSA or MSA jargon (everyone drink). They are used as planning and census tools and don't mean a whole heck of a lot in everyday life. They can be dissected a million different ways to come up with a million different kind of statistics.

Agreed. It's a pissing contest. End result of such a contest is the same.

Is there any difference between Raleigh the city and Charlotte the city? For all practical purposes, no. From a liveability standpoint I would put Raleigh ahead of Charlotte simply because it has not been as subject to as much really bad urban renewal. Beyond that, you if one took someone and blindfolded them, and set them loose in either place, they could not tell you that in 99% of each place if you were in Charlotte or Raleigh. A Super Walmart or cul de sac neighborhood looks the exactly the same in both.

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by metro.m

If the typical definition of a major city is literally used, then the Raleigh/Durham area would fall under the category of a major metro. However common sense will tell you there are more definitions of what categorizes a major city. Are you honestly trying to tell me Miami, Atlanta, and Charlotte share the same category? I'm really not trying to insult anyone. I'm just being honest.

No, but I don't think Atlanta, Los Angeles, and New York are all in the same cateogry either, but you would call all of those major cities, wouldn't you? Personally, I think it's more accurate to label Charlotte as a mid-major city, but it's often referred to as a major city which I have no problems with because I understand the context in which that appellation is used. In many cases, population is the major, if not sole, factor under consideration, and sometimes other things play a part. But if you disagree with the "major city" label, fine; just don't call people insane because they don't, especially since the label is quite subjective and often depends on various contexts. That's extremely disingenuous.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by lumbollo

Agreed. It's a pissing contest. End result of such a contest is the same.

Is there any difference between Raleigh the city and Charlotte the city? For all practical purposes, no. From a liveability standpoint I would put Raleigh ahead of Charlotte simply because it has not been as subject to as much really bad urban renewal. Beyond that, you if one took someone and blindfolded them, and set them loose in either place, they could not tell you that in 99% of each place if you were in Charlotte or Raleigh. A Super Walmart or cul de sac neighborhood looks the exactly the same in both.

That's pretty bad that a person has to lose one of their senses in order to not know Raleigh from Charlotte. The difference is quite obvious to those of us that don't have blinders on.

And BTW, you live near Charlotte. How much time have you spent in Raleigh on a night out? How much time have you spent in Charlotte on a night out? I am just curious. It seems to me that you are only familiar with ONE aspect of both of these towns. Neither Raleigh nor Charlotte are all cul de sacs and bad urban renewal. Especially Charlotte. I would hardly call Charlotte's recent urban efforts bad at all. Charlotte has been held up as a poster child for how to properly build TODs with its light rail system. Charlotte also gets attention for putting its sports' arena and stadium downtown. Charlotte's mass transit system is the largest system between Atlanta's MARTA and DC's Metro. And don't even get me started on Charlotte's arts scene that is rising along South Tryon Street uptown. Also, what about South End, Dilworth, Myers Park, Elizabeth, NoDa, and Uptown combined? Do you seriously think Raleigh has a center as strong as these aforementioned central Charlotte locales? Do you?

Heck, even MetroM can agree that Charlotte is actually denser than Raleigh at the core. This much is a fact! Outside of the core, Northhills and Crabtree are NOT a Southpark. Brier Creek is by NO MEANS a Ballantyne. North Raleigh does not have a light rail line and a theme park like South Charlotte. Raleigh/Durham International doesn't even compare with Charlotte Douglas. Jordan lake doesn't even compare with lake Norman. I'll leave the skylines out of this post.

[carolinadreamin']

The Raleigh area has a lower unemployment rate mainly because the Raleigh area has a more diversified workforce due in large part to the "World famous Research Triangle Park" and
the great Universities of UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke and NC State. Raleigh's current unemployment rate while not great, is a decent amount below Charlotte's.

Wake County (Raleigh) 8.8% 40,507 Unemployed

Mecklenburg County (Charlotte) 11.7% 53,768 Unemployed

Also if you check the NC map below it will show that the counties surrounding Raleigh are
faring better than the counties surrounding Charlotte.(Make sure you go to the month July)

North Carolina unemployment rates, county-by-county :: WRAL.com

[metro.m]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

That's pretty bad that a person has to lose one of their senses in order to not know Raleigh from Charlotte. The difference is quite obvious to those of us that don't have blinders on.

And BTW, you live near Charlotte. How much time have you spent in Raleigh on a night out? How much time have you spent in Charlotte on a night out? I am just curious. It seems to me that you are only familiar with ONE aspect of both of these towns. Neither Raleigh nor Charlotte are all cul de sacs and bad urban renewal. Especially Charlotte. I would hardly call Charlotte's recent urban efforts bad at all. Charlotte has been held up as a poster child for how to properly build TODs with its light rail system. Charlotte also gets attention for putting its sports' arena and stadium downtown. Charlotte's mass transit system is the largest system between Atlanta's MARTA and DC's Metro. And don't even get me started on Charlotte's arts scene that is rising along South Tryon Street uptown. Also, what about South End, Dilworth, Myers Park, Elizabeth, NoDa, and Uptown combined? Do you seriously think Raleigh has a center as strong as these aforementioned central Charlotte locales? Do you?

Heck, even MetroM can agree that Charlotte is actually denser than Raleigh at the core. This much is a fact! Outside of the core, Northhills and Crabtree are NOT a Southpark. Brier Creek is by NO MEANS a Ballantyne. North Raleigh does not have a light rail line and a theme park like South Charlotte. Raleigh/Durham International doesn't even compare with Charlotte Douglas. Jordan lake doesn't even compare with lake Norman. I'll leave the skylines out of this post.

Hmmm. Makes me wonder why aren't all newcomers to NC moving to Charlotte.

Urb, I think you really misunderstand what makes people flock to an area. It not always a low cost of living either. The Triangle is much more expensive than Charlotte, but has a higher growth rate.

I also hate to tell you this, but both cities are identical outside of their immediate central areas. Most new cities are...

I know the reason I don't want to move to Charlotte, but I'll keep that to myself, because it will probably offend Charlotte forumers. On the contrary I think Charlotte is a nice place.

Oh yeah Charlotte is no St Louis and you know it. St Louis is a real city. Charlotte and Raleigh are just nice up and comers. Neither city are as heavily urban and fast paced as The Lou.

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by metro.m

Oh yeah Charlotte is no St Louis and you know it. St Louis is a real city. Charlotte and Raleigh are just nice up and comers. Neither city are as heavily urban and fast paced as The Lou.

So if St. Louis is a "real city," that makes Charlotte and Raleigh "fake cities"?

[prwfromnc]

I don't know how St. Louis came up, but anyway, I like both Charlotte and Raleigh and hope that both cities do become great urban and maybe world-class cities. I was actually in Durham this past Saturday and I thought Durham was rather nice. Went to that Northgate Mall and ate dinner @ Pan Pan soulfood restaurant and I liked that mall. I thought that Eastland Mall should be redeveloped like Northgate b/c I thought Eastland almost resembeld it a little on the outside, except Northgate wasn't rundown like Eastland is right now. I also thought that area around Northgate did resemble parts of Northwest Charlotte along 85 near Douglas Int'l Airport. Even though it was Durham, I think overall both the Charlotte and Triangle areas are on the rise and in the next 20 years, both areas will be much different than they are today.