Charlotte vs Raleigh: No holds barred! (Winston-Salem, Fayetteville: house, unemployment, train)

[prwfromnc]

In defense of UrbanCharlotte, I happen to get what he is saying. No, I'm not trying to say that Charlotte is on the same level as Atlanta or LA yet, but I get what he is trying to get across. Too many of you are trying to belittle him and dismiss him as some sort of nut, but I actually see what is talking about, b/c I go to Charlotte frequently and see the same thing. Now maybe I don't go to those areas that have a lot of rednecks that Metro.m and CarolinaDreamin' have pointed out, b/c I stay within the confines of Uptown, South End, NoDa, Plaza Midwood, and I go no further than South Park. I totally understand what he is trying to say. Also, what I've notice from a lot of you Raleigh folks is that I notice a touch of hostility towards a lot of the Charlotte posters, namely UrbanCharlotte and Akhenaton06. Everytime they don't agree with you, you all tend to have a condescending attitude towards them. This is what I sense, not saying it's true, but this is what I feel is going on. Now, I grew up in Davidson County, and you can't get any backwards and redneck than that place. Charlotte is nowhere as bad as Lexington and Davidson County, if it was, there's no way in the world I would consider even wanting to move to Charlotte sometime in the near future. I'm not saying that Charlotte is as liberal as Chapel Hill, but it is definately no redneck hellhole as my hometown either! I'm talking from experience now, b/c I grew up in an area that was redneck to the core and wasn't ashamed of it. I mean, for a long time, they didn't even want to observe the MLK holiday for crying out loud, but wanted to observe Robert E. Lee day in its' place, if that's not being salty, I don't know what is. Charlotte may not be perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as some of you have made it out to be.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by lumbollo

You answered your own question without realizing it. A city's city limits is nothing more than a political boundary that defines taxation and services.

OMG lumbollo, just answer the question.

Are you suggesting that Raleigh's city limits were extremely larger than Charlotte's in the 1800s?

Originally Posted by prwfromnc

In defense of UrbanCharlotte, I happen to get what he is saying.

Thanks for looking out! However, Metro and Carolinadreamin get it too! Don't let them fool you into thinking they don't (get it). They are just tired of hearing what is already common knowledge.

I used to hang out in Raleigh a lot when I went to NC A&T. In college, I learned that folks from NC's "big cities" do tend to go at it a little bit. It is all in fun and no one is serious. We just love the towns that we are from and we all think OUR town is the best.

Most of my friends (from areas of NC outside of Charlotte) talk about Charlotte as if it were some kind of cow town. However, when they would visit Charlotte, they never wanted to leave. Charlotte isn't the "best city" (subjective) in NC, but it is certainly the most known city to folks outside of NC. This is why Charlotte posters are BY FAR the most attacked on city-data NC forums. Especially those of us (like me, Akhenaton06, and Carolinablue) that promote Charlotte's progress. We are targets of personal attacks from other posters upset with Charlotte's progress (or just tired of hearing about it) on a regular basis. I've been told by "someone " from Raleigh to go kill myself. Carolinablue and Akhenaton06 were called everything in the book by a Cleveland Ohio poster. That is just a part of the game unfortunately (posters that can't debate without hurling personal attacks).

Raleigh is a great town. However, Raleigh is not a town I would compare with Charlotte. 20 years ago, Charlotte and Raleigh offered pretty much the same. Today, Charlotte has "turned the corner". Charlotte is quickly heading towards the "big city" it so wants to be. Raleigh is still 20 years away from this so called "fork in the road". What happens in Raleigh today will affect what Raleigh looks like tomorrow.

The fact that TTA failed at getting rail started in the Triangle shows that Raleigh is doomed to making the same mistakes as Charlotte. RBC center should have been in downtown and not in a cow pasture in west Raleigh. This is the same mistake Charlotte made with the Coliseum out in the woods of Tyvola Road. Also, I see Raleigh's high concentration of PHDs similar to Charlotte's high concentration of bankers. Many of these PHDs are now moving to places like Charlotte (less competition).

I guess my point is that Raleigh should be looking to Charlotte more for examples of what to do (and what not to do) more than they have. There seems to be a "we don't need Charlotte's advice" attitude in Raleigh that is causing Raleigh to make the same "Charlotte mistakes".

[prwfromnc]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

OMG lumbollo, just answer the question.

Are you suggesting that Raleigh's city limits were extremely larger than Charlotte's in the 1800s?

Thanks for looking out! However, Metro and Carolinadreamin get it too! Don't let them fool you into thinking they don't (get it). They are just tired of hearing what is already common knowledge.

I used to hang out in Raleigh a lot when I went to NC A&T. In college, I learned that folks from NC's "big cities" do tend to go at it a little bit. It is all in fun and no one is serious. We just love the towns that we are from and we all think OUR town is the best.

Most of my friends (from areas of NC outside of Charlotte) talk about Charlotte as if it were some kind of cow town. However, when they would visit Charlotte, they never wanted to leave. Charlotte isn't the "best city" (subjective) in NC, but it is certainly the most known city to folks outside of NC. This is why Charlotte posters are BY FAR the most attacked on city-data NC forums. Especially those of us (like me, Akhenaton06, and Carolinablue) that promote Charlotte's progress. We are targets of personal attacks from other posters upset with Charlotte's progress (or just tired of hearing about it) on a regular basis. I've been told by "someone " from Raleigh to go kill myself. Carolinablue and Akhenaton06 were called everything in the book by a Cleveland Ohio poster. That is just a part of the game unfortunately (posters that can't debate without hurling personal attacks).

Raleigh is a great town. However, Raleigh is not a town I would compare with Charlotte. 20 years ago, Charlotte and Raleigh offered pretty much the same. Today, Charlotte has "turned the corner". Charlotte is quickly heading towards the "big city" it so wants to be. Raleigh is still 20 years away from this so called "fork in the road". What happens in Raleigh today will affect what Raleigh looks like tomorrow.

The fact that TTA failed at getting rail started in the Triangle shows that Raleigh is doomed to making the same mistakes as Charlotte. RBC center should have been in downtown and not in a cow pasture in west Raleigh. This is the same mistake Charlotte made with the Coliseum out in the woods of Tyvola Road. Also, I see Raleigh's high concentration of PHDs similar to Charlotte's high concentration of bankers. Many of these PHDs are now moving to places like Charlotte (less competition).

I guess my point is that Raleigh should be looking to Charlotte more for examples of what to do (and what not to do) more than they have. There seems to be a "we don't need Charlotte's advice" attitude in Raleigh that is causing Raleigh to make the same "Charlotte mistakes".

I know about the not wanting to leave Charlotte everytime I visit thing. Everytime I visit, I dread having to leave to go back to K'ville. I can also tell you this, Even though Raleigh is supposed to be more liberal than Charlotte, Charlotte will probably elect another black mayor before Raleigh and it will probably happen this year with Anthony Foxx. How do you see that mayors race shaping up?

[prwfromnc]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

I guess my point is that Raleigh should be looking to Charlotte more for examples of what to do (and what not to do) more than they have. There seems to be a "we don't need Charlotte's advice" attitude in Raleigh that is causing Raleigh to make the same "Charlotte mistakes".

I think every up and coming city should use another well-established city as a model of what they are doing right and avoid making the same mistakes they've made, almost like the sibling thing where the younger sibling learns from their older siblings and not making the same mistakes their older siblings made!

[adavi215]

There have been some interesting comparisons. I do agree looking at Charlotte and Raleigh's population in the 19th century is a bit outrageous. So is adding Cary's population to Raleigh but subtracting it from Charlotte, I'm not sure if I see the logic in that. It is true that Raleigh is more dense, however Charlotte has annexed some land in the past. The land that Charlotte has annexed, to my understanding has not been much, more land than people, so I think that has contributed to the lower population density. I wonder what is Charlotte's density with say a few miles from uptown? Just something I'm playing with.

Concerning Raleigh being smarter than Charlotte, I see what you're getting at but there was an earlier post that showed numerically that Charlotte is attracting more bachelor's and higher people than Raleigh. However Raleigh has a higher percentage. Just like what I have said earlier, Raleigh is growing faster than Charlotte because when people move there the percentage points are going to be higher. Since the 80s Charlotte has added nearly double the amount of people than Raleigh. If 50k people move to a city with 100k the growth is 50%. If 100k people move to a city with 300k the percentage is 33%, but the 300k people city grew larger than the 100k city. See the point? That is why Raleigh is growing faster. I'm not knocking Raleigh I'm just saying to focus on Raleigh growing faster than Charlotte doesn't tell the whole story, because Charlotte is still growing bigger than Charlotte.

[lumbollo]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

.....There seems to be a "we don't need Charlotte's advice" attitude in Raleigh that is causing Raleigh to make the same "Charlotte mistakes".

I have found that if you were to ask anyone in the Carolinas which city does not look at it's peers for advice, it would be Charlotte. Charlotte needs to look at what Raleigh has done right, which is a lot, but suggest that to most people in Charlotte, and it would get the same reception as mud tossed on a table at a wedding reception.

[carolinadreamin']

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

Most of my friends (from areas of NC outside of Charlotte) talk about Charlotte as if it were some kind of cow town. However, when they would visit Charlotte, they never wanted to leave. Charlotte isn't the "best city" (subjective) in NC, but it is certainly the most known city to folks outside of NC. This is why Charlotte posters are BY FAR the most attacked on city-data NC forums. Especially those of us (like me, Akhenaton06, and Carolinablue) that promote Charlotte's progress. We are targets of personal attacks from other posters upset with Charlotte's progress (or just tired of hearing about it) on a regular basis. I've been told by "someone " from Raleigh to go kill myself. Carolinablue and Akhenaton06 were called everything in the book by a Cleveland Ohio poster. That is just a part of the game unfortunately (posters that can't debate without hurling personal attacks).

Perhaps it's because your viewpoints of Charlotte are a lot different than theirs and you seem to have a hard time accepting that. A lot of people don't care for Charlotte, just like people don't care for Raleigh. No big deal, get over it. Just like everywhere, Charlotte is by no means for everyone. You can talk until you blue in the face and it will not change how Charlotte comes across to me. It would be a very boring world if we were all the same and liked the same things. BTW, Charlotte is always an easy place to leave for me and I never find myself anxious to go back.

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by lumbollo

I have found that if you were to ask anyone in the Carolinas which city does not look at it's peers for advice, it would be Charlotte. Charlotte needs to look at what Raleigh has done right, which is a lot, but suggest that to most people in Charlotte, and it would get the same reception as mud tossed on a table at a wedding reception.

That's understandable. It's only natural that cities look to larger cities for inspiration due to the challenges and opportunities that come with getting bigger, unless it pertains to one thing in particular that the larger city lacks (e.g., Charlotte leaders going to Greensboro to check out their downtown ballpark). Honestly, the only way I can see Charlotte taking cues from Raleigh is jobs-wise, i.e. luring more high-tech jobs to the region. Other than that, Charlotte has already done well what Raleigh has done/is doing well, for the most part.

[Raivere]

Omg this thread is going to go on forever!

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by prwfromnc

Charlotte will probably elect another black mayor before Raleigh and it will probably happen this year with Anthony Foxx. How do you see that mayors race shaping up?

I think Anthony Foxx has got this one in the bag. I just hope he doesn't screw things up between now and the election.

Originally Posted by adavi215

I wonder what is Charlotte's density with say a few miles from uptown? Just something I'm playing with.

Uptown's main zip code (28202) has a density of 5,000 people per sq/mi according to the most recent zip code data I've found. The zips surrounding Uptown range anywhere from 3,200 to 4,200 people per sq/mi.

Charlotte's central core is denser than Raleigh's core (but not by much). If Charlotte and Raleigh had the exact same land area, Charlotte would be a city with nearly 100,000 more people than Raleigh. In other words, Charlotte would be in between Atlanta and Raleigh in city population.

Just curious. Were any of you guys at the Blues and BBQ fest Uptown yesterday? The Greek Fest was also going on in Dilworth! The trains were packed all day it seems. I over heard a couple of people from Philly (in town for the Panthers vs Eagles game) saying A LOT of good things about our city. Now that's a compliment when folks from Philly are enjoying themselves "down South". Having the two festivals on the same weekend as the game certainly helped Charlotte win over our visitors. What do y'all think?