Charlotte vs Raleigh: No holds barred! (Durham, Chapel Hill: 2009, school, university)

[adavi215]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

Could you elaborate. Surely you must be speaking of something other than the light rail. If you think the light rail will curb sprawl then I suggest you do a little more digging. Don't get me wrong. I think the light rail is great and it does promote urban density, but that is not stopping the continued sprawl of Charlotte. Not at all. The sprawl continues despite the light rail becuase you still have a large portion of the population not interested in living in an urban environment.

So how is Charlotte controlling sprawl? It does not seem all that evident to most. I would say Raleigh and Charlotte both suffer from sprawl.

Disclaimer: I really like Charlotte and Raleigh.

One thing Charlotte is doing is spreading the light rail. Also, it has created MSD to promote growth in certain areas. Charlotte had centers, corridors, and wedges plans to promote growth along certain areas of Charlotte. There are also certain nodes of growth in Charlotte, such as Southpark, Ballantyne, University Center, Uptown,and Southend to name a few. The plan is to promote growth in areas that will spread out traffic but still keep them connected through public infrastructure. We're still waiting to see if it's working.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by adavi215

One thing Charlotte is doing is spreading the light rail. Also, it has created MSD to promote growth in certain areas. Charlotte had centers, corridors, and wedges plans to promote growth along certain areas of Charlotte. There are also certain nodes of growth in Charlotte, such as Southpark, Ballantyne, University Center, Uptown,and Southend to name a few. The plan is to promote growth in areas that will spread out traffic but still keep them connected through public infrastructure. We're still waiting to see if it's working.

Thanks adavi. The Charlotte MSD sounds similar to the comprehensive Land Use Plan Raleigh recenlty adopted.

[adavi215]

The MSD is a municipal service district. Charlotte has three, Uptown, Southend, and University City. I will try and find a link for the Charlotte center, corridor, and wedges plan for you.

[metro.m]

Charlotte's doing a pretty good job at promoting urban growth. I can just imagine what South Blvd will look like in 20 years! I see high rises, street level shops, and a more pedestrian friendly infrastructure surrounding the entire rail line. I can see bits and pieces taking shape as we speak. There is no reason Raleigh cannot do the same. I hope our city council are wholeheartedly committed to making our comprehensive plan happen.

[adavi215]

I would really love to see Raleigh do the same thing as Charlotte. It would be nice if it started promoting heavu density development. Raleigh could easily be the Boston of the South. I see Charlotte as the Philly.

[Georgia_Peach_95]

True.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by prwfromnc

I may need to check out Durham to see what they have to offer. Although I haven't been to Raleigh or Durham in years, I am a bit tired of all of this HYPE that Raleigh gets. To me, I think that Raleigh is a bit overrated and I like Charlotte a lot more. To me, the only people that like Raleigh are the folks @ Forbes Magazine. Raleigh isn't even in Charlotte's league, I would much rather prefer a city that has a more urban feel and is continuously adding to that urban fabric than a city that still building more sprawl.

To understand why Raleigh gets so much "hype", you must first understand why Forbes Magazine makes its choice. Forbes is NOT concerned with "big city" glitz, skylines, mass transit, urbanity, downtown night life, theme parks, tourist attractions, or ANYTHING like that. If they were, the likes of NYC and Chicago would make the top of every list they (Forbes) come out with. Cities like NYC and San Fran do not make the top of these lists that Raleigh does. In all honesty, I don't want Charlotte to make the top of ANY list that NYC or Atlanta was not even mentioned in. Does this make any sense?

I am NOT trying to take anything away from Raleigh's MANY Forbes listings. However, the Forbes listing (that counts to folks like me) that Raleigh has never made is the most visited cities list. This is the list of the 30 most interesting/popular cities to visit in America.

Here is a quote taken from the following link:
"Who knew, for example, that Charlotte, N.C., is the second largest financial center in the U.S. and, with more than 16 million yearly visitors, outranks the likes of Fort Lauderdale?"

America's 30 Most Visited Cities - ForbesTraveler.com

1.Las Vegas 38.9 million.
2.Los Angeles 58.6 million
3.Orlando 47.8 million visitors
4.New York City 44 million visitors
5.Chicago 41.3 million
6.Washington D.C. 36.9 million
7.Atlanta 37 million visitors
8.San Diego 32.2 million visitors
9.Houston 31 million vistors
10.Dallas 22.3 million visitors
11.Philadephia 27.7 million
12.Phoenix-Scottsdale 21.7 million
13.Anaheim,CA 18.4 million visitors
14.San Francisco 15.8 million visitors
15.Miami 15.8 million visitors
16.Boston 17.6 million vistors
17.San Antonio 20 million visitors.(21.7 according to SACVB)
18.St.Louis 20.3 million visitors.
19.Tampa/St.Petersburg 16.9 million visitors
20.Minneapolis/St.Paul 18.3 million visitors
21.Seattle-Tacoma 15.7 million vistors.
22.Indianapolis 21.7 million visitors
23.Detroit 15.9 million visitors
24.Austin 19 million visitors
25.Denver 14.5 million
26.Charlotte 16.6 million visitors
27.Nashville 13.5 million
28.Kansas City 16.5 million visitors
29.Ft.lauderdale 12.3 million
30.Baltimore 12 million vistors
(originally posted by "sweethomesanantonio")

Charlotte is the ONLY city in the Carolinas that made this Forbes list back in 2007. And that was before light rail service, Epicentre, the Nascar Hall of Fame, and the new museums on South Tryon Street. In 2010, I am quite sure Charlotte will move up a few spots on this list.

Some folks don't like this list (and try to downplay the numbers of cities like Charlotte) because convention visitors play a role in the numbers. My argument is doesn't Vegas, Atlanta, San Fran and NYC get convention traffic? They most certainly do (and TONS more than Charlotte at that).

I think it is wonderful that Raleigh is mentioned in so many Forbes lists. However, the most visited cities Forbes list paints a more accurate picture of what is really going on in Raleigh (or better yet what is NOT going on in Raleigh). Raleigh is a very popular relocation destination based on regional forces (Northeasterns wanting a cheaper/safer southern location with good schools and less than a 10 hours drive from "home"). That is what Raleigh brings to the table. Charlotte (on the other hand) will appeal more to the Midwesterner looking for the same thing. There are MANY folks here in Charlotte from areas like NYC and DC also. Keep in mind, these folks drove nearly 3 hours past Raleigh to get to Charlotte. They also chose to live 3 hours farther from "home" just to be in Charlotte. Obviously, Raleigh was lacking something to these Northeastern transplants here in Charlotte (my mother was from East Orange NJ, BTW. I was raised in Charlotte and born in NYC ).

I don't currently have the link, but poster "Carolinablue" posted some interesting info awhile back that showed the truth behind Charlotte and Raleigh's growth. Believe it or not, he showed proof that metros like Charlotte are attracting the young/educated class faster than metros like Raleigh. He also showed that metro Charlotte has a faster numerical growth while Raleigh has a faster percentage growth.

When it is all said and done, Raleigh is no better than Charlotte and vice versa. It is a preference. I prefer cities like Atlanta, so for me, Charlotte is the clear choice in North Carolina. Folks that hate cities like Atlanta are not going to be big fans of Charlotte if they were forced to move to NC. These are the folks that Raleigh will attract.

[adavi215]

Just to clear up something before it gets started. I have read the article urbancharlotte posted. The reason why some cities are higher than other cities even though they may have less visitors is that there is also a certain weight given to hotel reservations. SO for example, Charlotte had more visitors than Denver, but Denver probably had more hotel reservations.

I do think Charlotte and Raleigh are different types of cities that offer different things to people. Charlotte is more of a financial, distribution, textile, and manufactoring economy. Raleigh-Durham is more of a high-tech, government, higher ed economy. I keep lumping Raleigh and Durham together because the Triangle area is blessed to have such wonderful cities. I think RTP really connects that area.

[metro.m]

Originally Posted by adavi215

Just to clear up something before it gets started. I have read the article urbancharlotte posted. The reason why some cities are higher than other cities even though they may have less visitors is that there is also a certain weight given to hotel reservations. SO for example, Charlotte had more visitors than Denver, but Denver probably had more hotel reservations.

I do think Charlotte and Raleigh are different types of cities that offer different things to people. Charlotte is more of a financial, distribution, textile, and manufactoring economy. Raleigh-Durham is more of a high-tech, government, higher ed economy. I keep lumping Raleigh and Durham together because the Triangle area is blessed to have such wonderful cities. I think RTP really connects that area.

Exactly!

Raleigh definately isn't hype at all. Especially considering the fact Raleigh leaders do a not so good job at promoting the city itself. Raleigh has it's own feel, charm, vibe, etc. That's what attracts people to Raleigh. Durham is the same way. Charlotte is nice, but very different than the Triangle area. Posting stats in Charlotte's favor is not going to keep people from moving to Raleigh/Durham plain and simple. The Triangle's just is what it is... If 50-60k people a year prefer to move here, then I guess it's something here they like. The same can be said of Charlotte.












Now if that many people were moving to Fayetteville, then they seriously need their heads checked. Sorry just putting that out there.

[Carolina Blue]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

...I don't currently have the link, but poster "Carolinablue" posted some interesting info awhile back that showed the truth behind Charlotte and Raleigh's growth. Believe it or not, he showed proof that metros like Charlotte are attracting the young/educated class faster than metros like Raleigh. He also showed that metro Charlotte has a faster numerical growth while Raleigh has a faster percentage growth...

This is true. I’ve put those numbers below. And in the 2008 Forbes “Best Cities for Young Professionals” list, Charlotte actually outranked Raleigh (8th vs. 12th). And in 2007 Charlotte ranked 13th, while Raleigh was 17th. But no one every mentions when we beat them in rankings, the Capital Conspiracy lives!!! (I’m being facetious).

Forbes 2008 Best Cities for Young Professionals:
Charlotte #8: In Depth: Best Cities For Young Professionals - Forbes.com
Raleigh #12: In Depth: Best Cities For Young Professionals - Forbes.com
2007 List: Best Cities For Young Professionals - Forbes.com