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Old 12-09-2009, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9 posts, read 17,572 times
Reputation: 18

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Quote:
Originally Posted by onesideout View Post
If you think Charlotte is a major U.S. City are sadly mistaken. Sure, the downtown skyline is looking better but go into downtown, I mean Uptown, and it isn't that impressive at all. NC does not have a major true city that is world known and probably never will. Atlanta is the capital of the South and will always have that title.

Raleigh Durham can offer you everything that Charlotte can. The only thing Charlotte has is more professional sports (NBA and NFL) but Raleigh has NHL. Other than that, its about the same. Charlotteans have this huge ego that Charlotte is some huge, urban thriving metro region that is the capital of the south. Get over it and get real.
Agree.Agree.Agree. But it's not just the residents of Charlotte that think that way. Many "natives" of the Raleigh/Durham area refer to Raleigh in particular as this "Big City". I have lived in Raleigh now for 3 years and have visited Charlotte many times. Charlotte may have a skyline but it is all a facade. Charlotte can look inviting because of the downtown area but that's about it.

Living here for 3 years I can tell you, Raleigh has changed but it still has a long way to go. The city is to spread out to have a core area that really brings the city in together. Not to mention...public transporation...sucks.
This is the time for the city to invest money in mass transit to assure that 15 years from now the city has adequate public transporation for the expected growth.

Raleigh is a great place to live but their is still a lot of the old ways of thinking around here from what I gather that can be uninviting and uncomfortable for people like myself who are from big cities. But that too will change with time. From my experience, it's what you make of it and most "out of towners" tend to stick together.

Happy Holidays.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:43 AM
 
4,897 posts, read 5,471,392 times
Reputation: 3044
I honestly don't think anyone has said that NC has a Top 10 city/metro. NC does however have ONLY one city that consistently ranks in the Top 30 category.
USATODAY.com

In many cases (much like in the link above) Charlotte has emerged as NC's only "big city". I usually place the words "big city" in quotes to suggest that Charlotte is NOT a Top 10 US metro. To think that Charlotte and Raleigh are on the "same level" simply because they both are not Top 10 metros is quite delusional. Raleigh (as a metro region) is about 12 years behind Charlotte. Raleigh (as a city) is about 20 years behind Charlotte.

Since the 1990 census, the Triangle has gone from roughly 800,000 to nearly 1.7 million. In that same time period, the Charlotte metro region went from roughly 1.1 million to nearly 2.4 million.

Like I have said before, I think it is GREAT that there are two areas of NC that are booming (many states only have one such area if that). Just know that what is going on in Charlotte looks and feels much different than what is currently going on in Raleigh. In most central areas of Charlotte, the foundation of a great 21st century city is being built as I type. Museums are being erected, streetcar tracks are being laid, condos and hotels are rising from once vacant lots, and TOD developments along the current LYNX line are still breaking ground. In short, there is a lot to be excited about in Charlotte (eventhough we are in a recession).

I am not sure how Charlotte's "big city" image will affect future growth. I do know that there is a "quiet concern" in Raleigh that Charlotte could begin to steal away certain things that Raleigh wants for itself (ie, IKEA, CIAA tournament etc).

Also, there has been a recent increase in casual visitors from the Triangle here in Charlotte. Many are staying on the weekends to shop (Ikea, Concord Mills, and South Park) and go clubbing Uptown near Epicenter. I have met a few of these folks that proudly admit to Charlotte being a "once a month trip" for them. Other than Canes' games, I am not certain that Raleigh gets many casual visitors from Charlotte (with the exception of me ; I like to travel my state).

Anyways, none of the above really matters. All I am saying is that Charlotte and Raleigh (though both are growing) are without a doubt growing in different directions. Charlotte's direction of growth typically leads to a city becoming big and VERY urban with time. Raleigh's direction of growth tends to lead to a city looking kinda "Tampa-ish" (big metro; not a very big city).

Moderator cut: off topic

Charlotte, on the other hand, sits in the geographic center of an 8,000 sq/mi labor market of 2.8 million people. Eventhough Charlotte's region falls 500,000 short of the Triangle/Triad combo, Charlotte has virtually no competition from any other cities within its region (the second largest city in metro Charlotte is 10% of Charlotte's size; Durham is 56% of Raleigh's size).

This is what I meant in the past when I said that layout is Raleigh's worst enemy. Growing a major city in the south often requires lack of competition from your closest neighbors. Charlotte has this advantage over the two other 1 million plus CSAs in NC. As a result, Charlotte is reaching a "big city" status before all others.

Last edited by SunnyKayak; 12-16-2009 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:13 PM
 
9,074 posts, read 18,633,913 times
Reputation: 8400
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Anyways, none of the above really matters.
Well I think we can all agree on that! (the only statement of fact in the above post).
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:15 AM
 
885 posts, read 1,409,246 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy View Post
Well I think we can all agree on that! (the only statement of fact in the above post).
Exactly. I find that post absolutely pointless. I rarely post Raleigh's ranking when comes to the many accolades the city has received when it come to the best city to live and the best in many other categories. Ultimately it's up to the individual.

Moderator cut: off topic

Last edited by SunnyKayak; 12-16-2009 at 05:46 PM..
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:15 AM
 
4,897 posts, read 5,471,392 times
Reputation: 3044
Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.m View Post
Raleigh is closer in size to Charlotte than it is to Gboro and WS. Only about 15-20% smaller. Hmmm.
This is where you are wrong metro. UAs do not count ALL people living in an area. They only county the number of people living in areas with over 1,000 people per sq/mi density. Outside of the UA density cutoff (which is the TOTAL population counted within an area's MSA/CSA) the Triangle and the Triad are MUCH more comparable to each other than Charlotte and the Triangle are to each other.

Raleigh
392,552 in city and 1,635,974 in metro
Raleigh, U.S.A. | Emporis.com

Moderator cut: off topic
Charlotte
687,456 in city and 2,338,289 in metro
Charlotte, U.S.A. | Emporis.com

Now, I do realize that Charlotte's official CSA has nearly 2,000 sq/mi more land than the official CSA of the Triangle. However, consider the following.


File:Metrolinamap.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^^This is the 16 county "Metrolina" map (the same one you have posted MANY times before). This is also the 8,000 sq/mi area of nearly 2.8 million people I was talking about in a previous post. I realize this area is VERY large (and thus not repected by you in ANY way).

In the past, you have said MANY times that the Triangle IS "one" metro of 1.7 million people and I agree with you on that one. However, you have also said that Charlotte IS NOT a "2 point whatever million" metro correct?

Being that you respect Raleigh as being 1.7 million (and you don't respect Charlotte as being 2 million plus) I feel it is time to let you in on a little secret.

The 9 most populated core counties within the 16 county "Metrolina area" has a population of nearly 2.2 million people (and roughly 4,300 sq/mi of land).

The CSA of the Triangle has a population of 1.7 million and roughly 4,500 sq/mi of land. The ONLY way that the Triangle can even come close to Metrolina's core population and density is if we omitted a Triangle county and added Cumberland county (Fayetteville). Even with Fayetteville's help, the Triangle would still fall 200,000 short of Metrolina's core counties.

Also, being that Charlotte has NO real competition within Metrolina makes Charlotte THAT much more important to those that live within Metrolina's borders.

What does this have to do with growth potential one might ask? Well, the OP made it clear that she was not impressed with Greensboro as a city. This has led me to believe that the OP is NOT really looking for the area that will add the most people. I think she is looking for the area that will grow into a "real city" in the near future. Due to the layout and population of Metrolina, Charlotte is clearly the city the OP should move to (based on her original post of not being impressed with Greensboro).

Last edited by SunnyKayak; 12-16-2009 at 05:46 PM..
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:47 PM
 
885 posts, read 1,409,246 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
This is where you are wrong metro. UAs do not count ALL people living in an area. They only county the number of people living in areas with over 1,000 people per sq/mi density. Outside of the UA density cutoff (which is the TOTAL population counted within an area's MSA/CSA) the Triangle and the Triad are MUCH more comparable to each other than Charlotte and the Triangle are to each other.

Raleigh
392,552 in city and 1,635,974 in metro
Raleigh, U.S.A. | Emporis.com

Greensboro
250,642 in city and 1,535,926 in metro
Greensboro, U.S.A. | Emporis.com

Charlotte
687,456 in city and 2,338,289 in metro
Charlotte, U.S.A. | Emporis.com

Now, I do realize that Charlotte's official CSA has nearly 2,000 sq/mi more land than the official CSA of the Triangle. However, consider the following.


File:Metrolinamap.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^^This is the 16 county "Metrolina" map (the same one you have posted MANY times before). This is also the 8,000 sq/mi area of nearly 2.8 million people I was talking about in a previous post. I realize this area is VERY large (and thus not repected by you in ANY way).

In the past, you have said MANY times that the Triangle IS "one" metro of 1.7 million people and I agree with you on that one. However, you have also said that Charlotte IS NOT a "2 point whatever million" metro correct?

Being that you respect Raleigh as being 1.7 million (and you don't respect Charlotte as being 2 million plus) I feel it is time to let you in on a little secret.

The 9 most populated core counties within the 16 county "Metrolina area" has a population of nearly 2.2 million people (and roughly 4,300 sq/mi of land).

The CSA of the Triangle has a population of 1.7 million and roughly 4,500 sq/mi of land. The ONLY way that the Triangle can even come close to Metrolina's core population and density is if we omitted a Triangle county and added Cumberland county (Fayetteville). Even with Fayetteville's help, the Triangle would still fall 200,000 short of Metrolina's core counties.

Also, being that Charlotte has NO real competition within Metrolina makes Charlotte THAT much more important to those that live within Metrolina's borders.

What does this have to do with growth potential one might ask? Well, the OP made it clear that she was not impressed with Greensboro as a city. This has led me to believe that the OP is NOT really looking for the area that will add the most people. I think she is looking for the area that will grow into a "real city" in the near future. Due to the layout and population of Metrolina, Charlotte is clearly the city the OP should move to (based on her original post of not being impressed with Greensboro).
All of that, and your post is still irrelevant. Get over it Charlotte isn't as big as you WANT it to be.

BTW. The OP is leaning towards Raleigh. Not your bogus numbers.
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:35 PM
 
4,897 posts, read 5,471,392 times
Reputation: 3044
Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.m View Post
All of that, and your post is still irrelevant. Get over it Charlotte isn't as big as you WANT it to be.

BTW. The OP is leaning towards Raleigh. Not your bogus numbers.
As big as I "want it to be". My goodness, how old are you? Really? Anyways, I posted the numbers for the Triangle vs Metrolina simply to correct the myth that the Triangle is closer in population to Charlotte than it is to the Triad. Nothing more, nothing less. I can back up eveything I just posted with a link to the US census quickfacts page.

Triangle's CSA
1,690,557 (2008 population)
4,476 sq/mi land area

9 Core Metrolina counties
2,203,046 (2008 population)
4,351 sq/mi land area

The Triangle CSA number is the official census CSA of Raleigh/Durham. The "9 core Metrolina counties" are the largest counties closest to Charlotte in the 16 county "Metrolina" region. For this, I am using one county that is NOT part of Charlotte's official census CSA (Catawba county). I personally don't like using non-CSA counties, but since the Metrolina map has been brought up in the past (when some folks were trying to downplay Charlotte's 2 million plus CSA) I felt the need to take a closer look at the core that makes up "Metrolina". When I did this, I found that "Metrolina's" 9 core counties has 124 fewer sq/mi than the Triangle while still having 512,489 more people. This is something about Charlotte that I honestly NEVER noticed before now. This also helps explain why retailers like Ikea chose Charlotte over the Triangle. The spokesman for Ikea said that Charlotte had the 2 million plus status he was looking for (and Raleigh did not). When he made that statement, I honestly thought to myself "Raleigh would have 2 million also if they had a 6,500 sq/mi CSA too. However, I was shocked to find out that Metrolina's core is 2 million plus with less land than the Triangle. Obviously, the guys at Ikea did their homework well.

From my estimates, it will take the Triangle's CSA 12 years to catch up to the current population of Metrolina's core. Given the fact that Raleigh is NOT the primary city in the Triangle, it might be 15 to 20 years before Raleigh (the city itself) catches up to present day Charlotte. I know I have said this much before, but the population differences I am starting to notice is my reasons for such a statement. I personally think it is kinda silly how some folks in the Triangle tries to promote the area like it is more "Charlotte-like" than "Triad-like". I mean, wasn't the Triad actually larger than the Triangle like 3 years ago?

Last edited by urbancharlotte; 12-11-2009 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:52 PM
 
885 posts, read 1,409,246 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
As big as I "want it to be". My goodness, how old are you? Really? Anyways, I posted the numbers for the Triangle vs Metrolina simply to correct the myth that the Triangle is closer in population to Charlotte than it is to the Triad. Nothing more, nothing less. I can back up eveything I just posted with a link to the US census quickfacts page.

Triangle's CSA
1,690,557 (2008 population)
4,476 sq/mi land area

9 Core Metrolina counties
2,203,046 (2008 population)
4,351 sq/mi land area

For anyone that is even interested in knowing what counties I am talking about, feel free to ask.
Your numbers are bogus. Get it? Bogus..

Charlotte isn't a BIG CITY! Pack your bags and move to a BIG CITY... Then you won't have to feel insecure about the place you chose to live your life. I heard U-Haul can help.
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Old 12-11-2009, 04:55 PM
 
885 posts, read 1,409,246 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
You are correct. It is a midsized major city. Raleigh is a large town that gets kinda lost in the midsized major metro of the Triangle (a midsized major metro that is 500,000 short of the amount of people living near Charlotte). Trust me, it is not a joke my friend. Those are the numbers straight from the census. Losing out to Charlotte for Ikea, losing the CIAA tournament to Charlotte, not getting light rail, a pathetic skyline, very little mass transit to speak of, failure to build an "L" shaped building around a rather ugly parking deck near the Convention Center. Honestly dude, you have ALL of the clues to the differnences between Charlotte and Raleigh right in your own back yard. Don't be mad at me because I found some census clues that might help explain why Raleigh is NOT able to do the same things that Charlotte is doing.

Besides, it is YOU that are ready to leave Raleigh for a larger city. I am quite proud and excited about what's going on in MY city. My wife and I video record the great things happening here every chance we get. I am sorry Raleigh does not excite you as much as Charlotte excites us. If I lived in Raleigh, I would probably be dreaming of moving to a larger city too. lol
Different strokes for different folks. What? Do you think you speak for everyone in Charlotte? I know for a fact if you do, you're a liar. You and your alter egos (multiple user names) are the practically the only ones that think Charlotte is Atlanta or Baltimore status.

What's next? More misleading, bogus stats? Your over boosterism of Charlotte and consistent underrating of Raleigh, with no middle ground shows your lack of knowledge of NC cities. I could teach you a lot...
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:10 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
7,986 posts, read 9,625,768 times
Reputation: 6096
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAGuy-in-RDU View Post
Agree.Agree.Agree. But it's not just the residents of Charlotte that think that way. Many "natives" of the Raleigh/Durham area refer to Raleigh in particular as this "Big City". I have lived in Raleigh now for 3 years and have visited Charlotte many times. Charlotte may have a skyline but it is all a facade. Charlotte can look inviting because of the downtown area but that's about it.

Living here for 3 years I can tell you, Raleigh has changed but it still has a long way to go. The city is to spread out to have a core area that really brings the city in together. Not to mention...public transporation...sucks.
This is the time for the city to invest money in mass transit to assure that 15 years from now the city has adequate public transporation for the expected growth.

Raleigh is a great place to live but their is still a lot of the old ways of thinking around here from what I gather that can be uninviting and uncomfortable for people like myself who are from big cities. But that too will change with time. From my experience, it's what you make of it and most "out of towners" tend to stick together.

Happy Holidays.
I hope that you are being part of the solution by investing your life and you dollars downtown. If not, it just becomes noise to those of us who have invested in making DT the place that we know it can be.
Too many times, I read posts from people who complain about DT but then never go there. When we spend time and money in DT, it changes because of our participation. This has been the dynamic that has moved the city forward over the last decade. DT is not just a place one can assume to exist if one doesn't breathe life into it by going there, spending money, patronizing its businesses or even living there. The good news is that this is happening. It's all about the people and the realtionships of them to each other and the environment.
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