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Old 09-20-2010, 05:08 PM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,091,803 times
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My in-laws who were born and lived in the Minot area all their lives told me about the very high housing prices there and the growth going on. I didnt know prices had gottten so high.

My father in law said a builder was doing a 1750 sq ranch house with unfinished basement and 3 car garage and selling it for 290K. We have a house similar with a finished basement and we paid 224k and was appraised last year at 238k. And yet, he said it was purchased as soon as the house was in the framing stage. My father in law said house was on a typical lot with nothing extraordinary inside different from ours. Supply and demand I suppose and where there is money to be made prices will go up.

Ft McMurray Alberta Canada home to the oilsands, the average price for a 3 br/ 2 Ba house in August was 686,000 CDN or about 650k US. This is actually down from the peak. On the housing list for MacMoney as it is called I saw several 3BR 2BA homes in that 3000 sq ft range for 1.1 million CDN. But again the average salary for entry level work in the oil fields or handling equipment is over 100k CDN.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:14 PM
 
Location: C-U metro
1,359 posts, read 2,630,325 times
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Default Unsure

I'm not certain that this was nothing more than the stereotypical dumb buyer. Also, it may be under contract for 290k but they can't close. Many of the homes in higher market areas don't or can't close because those areas are still too pricey for buyers.

Once the deal goes down, I would be a believer. A contract is worthless in this real estate market.
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Forest Hills
555 posts, read 1,429,855 times
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Some day people will realize a college degree in ND is next to worthless... you are far better off going into a field straight from high school as you'll never see a return on the investment of a degree in ND... the 4 years lost working (experience) coupled with the required repayment of college loans is just impossible to overcome at the salaries paid in ND. You're better off getting a $10 - 12 an hour job straight out of high school than going to college and hoping you can find a $15 - 17 an hour job.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,091,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemmert View Post
Some day people will realize a college degree in ND is next to worthless... you are far better off going into a field straight from high school as you'll never see a return on the investment of a degree in ND... the 4 years lost working (experience) coupled with the required repayment of college loans is just impossible to overcome at the salaries paid in ND. You're better off getting a $10 - 12 an hour job straight out of high school than going to college and hoping you can find a $15 - 17 an hour job.
Kind of hard then to be a doctor....accountant....IT specialist....meteorologist (like me)...financial consultant....engineer....therapist (like my wife is a born and raisd ND resident), or any number of fields. I make over 40/hr and she about 25/hr at the local hospital. My dentist just built a 500K home north of town and two doctors built 800k homes along Belmont in Grand Forks where previous homes were wiped out in the 97 flood, but are not protected. Majority of the above we know and did get degrees at NDSU or UND. I got mine at Iowa St. There are quite a few wealthy farmers out there as well. The one next to my inlaws..there net worth is over $1 million and the wife takes a month in Hawaii in January. We have neighbors who farm but live in town and both had college degrees in agriculture and each pulls down easy well over $100k a year as sugar beets are quite profitable in most years. I am sure any number of those dont consider a college degree worthless. They went into a field where there is demand.

I am not denying there are many folks out there NATIONWIDE that have degrees and cant find jobs to pay back their loans....but that is everywhere and in Canada too.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Forest Hills
555 posts, read 1,429,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaninEGF View Post
Kind of hard then to be a doctor....accountant....IT specialist....meteorologist (like me)...financial consultant....engineer....therapist (like my wife is a born and raisd ND resident), or any number of fields. I make over 40/hr and she about 25/hr at the local hospital. My dentist just built a 500K home north of town and two doctors built 800k homes along Belmont in Grand Forks where previous homes were wiped out in the 97 flood, but are not protected. Majority of the above we know and did get degrees at NDSU or UND. I got mine at Iowa St. There are quite a few wealthy farmers out there as well. The one next to my inlaws..there net worth is over $1 million and the wife takes a month in Hawaii in January. We have neighbors who farm but live in town and both had college degrees in agriculture and each pulls down easy well over $100k a year as sugar beets are quite profitable in most years. I am sure any number of those dont consider a college degree worthless. They went into a field where there is demand.

I am not denying there are many folks out there NATIONWIDE that have degrees and cant find jobs to pay back their loans....but that is everywhere and in Canada too.
Wow... so you just described the 6 or 8 people that caused me to pause and type "next to" in front of the "worthless" instead of simply saying "worthless". Regardless, I would challenge you to look at the economics of most of those things and show me a positive ROI that you'd actually invest in if it were your money.

How many years did you invest in college to become a Meteorolist (man, I'm doing my best to avoid the jokes here too!)... 6? So someone making $12 an hour as a cable tech, telemarketer, computer help desk phone answerer or any other non-college educated job has a $150,000 income lead on you. How much did you invest in college, another $120,000 over the 6 years? He's up to $270,000 ahead. So if they can find one of the... what are there, maybe 12 meteorolist jobs in all of ND? (Pretty sure you were commenting on how others in your field up in Minot were unable to find work) you'll make $60k a year more than them... assuming they haven't managed to get promoted past the entry level $12 an hour they were making in the 6 years you were in school. And goodness, $80k a year puts you in the upper income brackets in ND... you're wife is only making about $25k a year more than them... she'll be 40 before she begins to think about a positive return on the investment.

The math isn't there. When you do the weighted average return and figure how many of those who go to college in ND fail to actually get a job in ND in their field making the monies you described, it's just terrible. If 1 in 4 of you meteorologist types gets an $80k job and the other 3 end up making $25k flipping burgers... the average meteorology degree is worth about $40k a year... that's a lot of time and money to invest for a barely noticeable increase in yearly salary.

Nope, I suggest going someplace where education is valued, respected, and best of all, paid for! Then you can be 31 and make $65 an hour

College costs are basically fixed no matter if you go to school in ND or NYC... same for the interest rates on the loans and the repayment periods... your best off maximizing your earning potential if you're going to make a static investment. Spending all that time and money and then accepting the peanuts ND employers compensate you for it just makes no sense.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:24 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,366 posts, read 9,999,217 times
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Well... some of us see our lives as more than a ledger sheet.

I'm certainly not moving to ND to get rich. I really don't care how much I make, as long as it's sufficient for my NEEDS. Main reason I'm planning a move there is the climate suits me and to get away from overpopulation... and away from those places you mention where "education is valued." That's a misnomer. What's valued is your educated money. You make ten times more and pay ten times more. And of course the government loves you because they can fleece you with taxes.

I can get a reasonable home in the smaller towns (within commuting distance to bigger cities) of North Dakota for literally 20 or 30K. Where I'm at, homes cost 300K. In even more "educated" areas, they are 500K to 700K. So, how much less of a wage can I get away with making if I'm paying on a 20K house compared to a 300K house? I could almost pay a loan on 20K with a minimum wage job. Not so with a 300K mortgage.

Of course, this assumes going into it with no other debt. That other debt is what makes a 50K+ salary necessary. If all there is is food, a small house payment, utilities, car maintenance, and a couple of other small expenses, the wages in ND are going to provide sufficient for one's needs.

For me, one big benefit of North Dakota is that my little tiny county has more people in it than the entire STATE of North Dakota. You could offer me a million bucks a year in a big city and I'd turn you down flat right now. I'm done. No more population centers for this over-educated schlubb.

Looking forward to watching those northern lights... on a -20 F night.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,091,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemmert View Post
How many years did you invest in college to become a Meteorolist (man, I'm doing my best to avoid the jokes here too!)... 6? So someone making $12 an hour as a cable tech, telemarketer, computer help desk phone answerer or any other non-college educated job has a $150,000 income lead on you. How much did you invest in college, another $120,000 over the 6 years? He's up to $270,000 ahead. So if they can find one of the... what are there, maybe 12 meteorolist jobs in all of ND? (Pretty sure you were commenting on how others in your field up in Minot were unable to find work) you'll make $60k a year more than them... assuming they haven't managed to get promoted past the entry level $12 an hour they were making in the 6 years you were in school. And goodness, $80k a year puts you in the upper income brackets in ND... you're wife is only making about $25k a year more than them... she'll be 40 before she begins to think about a positive return on the investment.
You talked about money and the differences between work from HS and going to college....what about those who have a passion and a desire for a special job. Someone who wants to be a doctor, counselor, weather person like me or many other things out there. I think most everyone would gladly get some debt in school to at least have a chance to get a job they love whether than be at some spot they hate. I am fortunate to have a job in my field of choice for all my 22 years of work experience. Point being what you mentioned about ND can be said of Kentucky as well (where I grew up) as well as Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, South Dakota.

I have a B.S. degree (4 yrs) graduated in 1988. I am from Kentucky and went to an out of state school (ISU in Ames, IA). If I recall back then a semester out of state was about 1500 to 2000....but my parents had saved up enough and put 3 kids through college (I was the youngest) all on a Kentucky coal miner's salary. My parents grew up in the Depression and WWII and lived very modestly. So I graduated with no debt to repay. I always loved weather and in particular winter weather and always dreamed of moving up north where the snow blows and it is flat. I joined the Natl Weather Service in 1990, after 2 yrs working at Accu-Weather. You start quite low on the totem pole and rise your way up....First location I was making barely 20-24k and living in the Ann Arbor MI area...then moved to Springfield MO for my journey level position then to GF in 1998 for my senior met position (GS 13 pay scale) So thankfully I believed in myself and loved weather I didnt settle for something I hated and now I do something I always enjoy. Without college, wouldnt have happend....NWS will not hire anyone without college degree. Nor will any TV or private met place.

In terms of meteorologists in ND...there are about 15 at Grand Forks and 15 in Bismarck at the NWS office there. Meridian in GF has about 15-20 (estimating) -- they mostly do forecasts for road departments. TV mets had another 10 or so in the state and then you have the weather modification board out in western ND so all in all I would say about 60 degreed met jobs in the state attm. Good thing is whether I had gotten by degree from ISU or UND or Penn State or OU it wouldnt have mattered as all you need is a degree and the appropriate grades, etc. Where you got your degree doesnt matter as much as what you do in college outside of studies.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:52 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,913,854 times
Reputation: 8127
Anyone nowadays who doesn't get educated beyond high school ( either college or trade school) is an idiot ( IMHO)
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:12 PM
 
39 posts, read 69,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Well... some of us see our lives as more than a ledger sheet.

I'm certainly not moving to ND to get rich. I really don't care how much I make, as long as it's sufficient for my NEEDS. Main reason I'm planning a move there is the climate suits me and to get away from overpopulation... and away from those places you mention where "education is valued." That's a misnomer. What's valued is your educated money. You make ten times more and pay ten times more. And of course the government loves you because they can fleece you with taxes.

I can get a reasonable home in the smaller towns (within commuting distance to bigger cities) of North Dakota for literally 20 or 30K. Where I'm at, homes cost 300K. In even more "educated" areas, they are 500K to 700K. So, how much less of a wage can I get away with making if I'm paying on a 20K house compared to a 300K house? I could almost pay a loan on 20K with a minimum wage job. Not so with a 300K mortgage.

Of course, this assumes going into it with no other debt. That other debt is what makes a 50K+ salary necessary. If all there is is food, a small house payment, utilities, car maintenance, and a couple of other small expenses, the wages in ND are going to provide sufficient for one's needs.

For me, one big benefit of North Dakota is that my little tiny county has more people in it than the entire STATE of North Dakota. You could offer me a million bucks a year in a big city and I'd turn you down flat right now. I'm done. No more population centers for this over-educated schlubb.

Looking forward to watching those northern lights... on a -20 F night.

Well said I agree , I was also tired of living in an overpopulated area; with extremely hot weather conditions during the summer.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Forest Hills
555 posts, read 1,429,855 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaninEGF View Post
You talked about money and the differences between work from HS and going to college....what about those who have a passion and a desire for a special job. Someone who wants to be a doctor, counselor, weather person like me or many other things out there. I think most everyone would gladly get some debt in school to at least have a chance to get a job they love whether than be at some spot they hate. I am fortunate to have a job in my field of choice for all my 22 years of work experience. Point being what you mentioned about ND can be said of Kentucky as well (where I grew up) as well as Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, South Dakota.
I dunno... maybe I'm simply a cynic... but remembering high school... I don't remember knowing anyone "passionate" about becoming something. Most people in HS don't even know who they are yet much less what they think they might want to do when they're all grown up. Frankly, I'd love to see the US institute some sort of policy that required 2 years of public service from all graduating high school seniors and then in return offered free tuition to public universities following that. Give the kids a chance to mature, to figure out who they are and what they want to do, and then go to college and not need $100k+ in loans to get through it.

But I digress... people I went to college with were going to college to get a job. They may have enjoyed particular subjects but they weren't particularly passionate about an occupation. Maybe it was just the more logical technical types I went to school with versus the visionary and passionate Liberal Arts types... who knows.

But I repeat, I don't believe the math is there to justify a college degree in ND... at least not in dollars and cents. If there are ancillary benefits that you receive from the degree that you believe outweighs any financial argument, hey, great for you! Seriously. You use a different thought process than I but there's nothing wrong with that and more power to you.
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