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Old 09-30-2010, 12:50 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 11,980,428 times
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-----all I did for a few months here was drink-----

I don't think you are cut out to be a seviceman's wife.

If you are as unhappy as you post here, that is a heck of a burden on your husband.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
177 posts, read 427,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
-----all I did for a few months here was drink-----

I don't think you are cut out to be a seviceman's wife.

If you are as unhappy as you post here, that is a heck of a burden on your husband.
Inappropriate comment. I can't blame her for not liking ND. I went there last year, and it was b-o-r-i-n-g.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:54 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 11,980,428 times
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Well, one can moan and complain (and drink ) all day long.

It won't change a thing.

An old saying in rural Minnesota is------" make the best of it"
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,113 posts, read 6,651,633 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by etjaipleure View Post
I have a bachelor's degree, will have a master's degree in February, it's in psychology which pretty much would allow me to do anything, you would think, since most jobs you are working and relating with people.
I suspect that a BS in psychology has about the same employment value as a BS in Art History. Sadly, people with college degrees are a dime-a-dozen today and our nation has a large oversupply of college-educated people. Do you have reason to believe that you would be able to find a knowledge-based white collar job of some sort elsewhere in the country?

I agree with you that your chances of doing so would be far better in a large city than in Minot, but even then, it's hard to find a merely lower-middle class white collar job today anywhere in the country.

I read the stories about people earning decent money working in the oil fields or as truck drivers and question whether it really makes economic sense to get a college degree today (outside of engineering, nursing, or becoming a physician).
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:56 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
8,485 posts, read 8,951,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn View Post
Sadly, people with college degrees are a dime-a-dozen today and our nation has a large oversupply of college-educated people.
I don't see why people can't seem to get this. It's true. I think education and learning are great, but how many rocket scientists do we need? Learn because you want to. If you are doing it just for a job, there are better ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn View Post
I read the stories about people earning decent money working in the oil fields or as truck drivers and question whether it really makes economic sense to get a college degree today (outside of engineering, nursing, or becoming a physician).
That's the key: it doesn't make economic sense. Learning is wonderful, but it doesn't automatically grant you a "get a fluffy job free" card--especially these days.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,113 posts, read 6,651,633 times
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Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
I don't see why people can't seem to get this. It's true. I think education and learning are great, but how many rocket scientists do we need? Learn because you want to. If you are doing it just for a job, there are better ways.
I suspect that the upper class powers-that-be are simply disconnected from the reality of the situation. For people in their generation a college education offered a high chance of at least middle class success, but today just about everyone is going to college and the media and our politicians are encouraging people who have no business being in college.

Our politicians and pundits like to sell the idea of going to college to the American people because it's a touchy-feely, warm-and-fuzzy thing to do and they are trying to sell the sheeple on the notion that higher education is the solution to our nation's unemployment and economic problems. It's easier to assuage an angry populace by selling them on higher education than it is to address issues like foreign outsourcing, the displacement of Americans from jobs by foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, and mass immigration. This way, unemployed Americans will blame themselves for not being educated enough or not being educated in the right fields. Our politicians and pundits seem to have been pretty successful with the scam for now.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:29 PM
 
Location: C-U metro
1,339 posts, read 2,455,977 times
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Default Typical of workers

Many workers who went into finance/business/communications/liberal arts would have been better off going into welding or plumbing. There is a SEVERE shortage of those workers and the need for code (ie. oil and gas pipe) welders is huge. Most of the welders we employ under contract are making 6 figures and are well worth it. A fast and good (ie. pass 1st time) code welders are worth their weight in gold right now.

The lack of people willing to do physical labor is atrocious. Many people do not want to sweat for work. I don't have a problem paying for it but I need the job to be done well and on time, NOT slipshod and late. Much of the American quality and pride in work has died in our country. I've seen tons of it in CA and the Midwest. That's why India and Mexico beat us, not because they are any smarter or better. Actually, Indian university degrees are worthless by Western standards unless you come from a top 30 school (The Economist).

Most college degrees are issued "beer-drinking" majors (my term). Most degrees are conferred in business, communications, liberal arts, psychology (non-clinical), and minority studies. They get to go to football games, basketball games, fraternity parties, ect. while the engineering, architecture, pre-med, and science majors are at the library studying.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:57 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
8,485 posts, read 8,951,292 times
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Originally Posted by flyingcat2k View Post
Many workers who went into finance/business/communications/liberal arts would have been better off going into welding or plumbing. There is a SEVERE shortage of those workers and the need for code (ie. oil and gas pipe) welders is huge. Most of the welders we employ under contract are making 6 figures and are well worth it. A fast and good (ie. pass 1st time) code welders are worth their weight in gold right now.

The lack of people willing to do physical labor is atrocious. Many people do not want to sweat for work. I don't have a problem paying for it but I need the job to be done well and on time, NOT slipshod and late. Much of the American quality and pride in work has died in our country. I've seen tons of it in CA and the Midwest. That's why India and Mexico beat us, not because they are any smarter or better. Actually, Indian university degrees are worthless by Western standards unless you come from a top 30 school (The Economist).

Most college degrees are issued "beer-drinking" majors (my term). Most degrees are conferred in business, communications, liberal arts, psychology (non-clinical), and minority studies. They get to go to football games, basketball games, fraternity parties, ect. while the engineering, architecture, pre-med, and science majors are at the library studying.
Excellent post. It should be required reading for young folks trying to decide what they are going to do with their life. There has been a huge push for "education" for a long time. As I said before, learning and knowledge are great. But higher education does not equate to the reality of what a society needs to function. By having an entire populace train as philosophers and so forth we are engineering a society that gets nothing done and must import labor (the people who are actually willing work). Over the course of my life I've seen skilled labor fields that paid well by standards of the time become illegal immigrant jobs because no one is willing to do them (for instance, carpentry and general construction). And I know these fields paid a good, livable wage because my father spent his life as one of them (pipefitter/plumber). Same with your example: welders. You are spot on about our modern society avoiding any physical work like the plague. They'd rather waste their money at the gym than do any actual useful work.

It gets even worse: within the "college pool" (which should be smaller in the first place), we have the majority of students pursuing basically useless (as far as employment is concerned) degrees. It should be the other way around; there should be a few pursuing these low-demand fields and the majority pursuing fields that are actually still in-demand and needed in the real world (these are generally math/science intensive). Even at that, it boils down to the question I've asked many times on this forum: how many rocket scientists do we need? How many philosophers? How many MBAs? If everyone in society were overeducated Einsteins, would we even be able to feed ourselves?

As for relating to the OP of "where are the jobs?": I can't speak for North Dakota (at least until I move there!), but where I live, if you look at the state workforce services list, you will see that most of the jobs are blue-collar jobs--I'm not talking "idiot jobs." There are some of those of course. But, I'm talking a big, big list of skilled jobs. Welders, diesel mechanics, auto mechanics, drivers, semi-skilled industrial. The only white-collar jobs that are still in demand around here are a few computer/programmer related jobs, a few engineering jobs, and a few medical-related jobs. The rest... skilled blue-collar.

This aversion to physical activity at work is not the direction that a productive society should be going. And the excuse of low pay is really just that. I know auto mechanics that make more than programmers. As you said, a skilled welder can make as much as the stereotypical CEO.

Personally, right now, I'm on both sides of the fence. One job is white-collar (teaching math -- been doing it about 18 years), the other is blue-collar. I got the second job to save for the move to ND . I've been there about six months now. It's hard work, but I make more there already than I do at my white-collar job of 18 years. Plus, I get a good workout. Not a week goes by that the supervisor doesn't thank me for the work I do there. It seems the company has a hard time finding dependable people who are actually willing to work. All the potentially quality workers are pursuing a society-fueled pipe-dream of becoming a philosopher or rocket scientist.


BTW: "beer-drinking majors"... that gave me a good laugh. So true.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:05 AM
 
18,856 posts, read 28,348,320 times
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The nature of work has changed. There are less jobs for those who are unskilled, and have spent time in college learning how to "communicate better" or whatever. Honestly, I think that colleges need to change, and that there should be less emphasis on "liberal education" and more time spent on classes in the major course of study, that would eliminate the additional years in a masters program. Of course, I also think that high school education needs to change as well...and children should learn vocational skills in high school, especially those that are not academic. The "government" says our goal is to increase scores in math and science...well, start with taking kids who are not academic out of those classes...they slow down the pace for kids who are academic. Sorry, it goes back to "tracking"...but if we did things like many other countries, take a test at age 12, pass the test, go on to further education, don't pass the test, time to learn how to work at the factory. Things might work better...
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:40 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
8,485 posts, read 8,951,292 times
Reputation: 7653
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
The nature of work has changed. There are less jobs for those who are unskilled,
I question this. How long would you last without a garbage man? Or the people who pick your fruit? Or the thousands of people who make or transport the stuff you use every day? The difference is that we've become "too good" to do that kind of work and we export it or import laborers. To our own peril. We're becoming a society of over-educated do-nothings.

Also, I think what you are talking about is not college, it's vocational school. And yes, I agree, way more folks need to go to these sorts of schools. Their pay would be just as good as the unemployment they now draw (because we really didn't need as many XXX's as the college advisor had promised).
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