U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Dakota
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-03-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,410,165 times
Reputation: 2147483647

Advertisements

I think the term "Unskilled" is unfair.

30 years ago a welder went through VoAg school and went to work as a welder. Did pretty good for himself because he basically stuck 2 pieces of steel together. Now days with all the certifications needed and the training required and the ability to stick two pieces of stell together have changed.

Let's not get Skilled / Unskilled confused with Educated and uneducated.

College is great. But when that person goes to work, he is unskilled. Experience plays a big roll.
__________________
[B][COLOR="Red"]"No Copyrighted Material."[/COLOR][/B]
[URL="http://www.city-data.com/"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]CD Home page[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html"][COLOR="seagreen"]TOS (Terms of Service)[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/107997-search-function-using-search-function.html"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]How to Search,[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]FAQ's[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/70589-guide-guide-city-data-posting.html"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Guide[/COLOR][/URL]
[URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/wyoming/"]Wyoming[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/montana/"]Montana[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/north-dakota/"]North Dakota[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/south-dakota/"]South Dakota[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/guns-hunting/"]Guns and Hunting[/URL]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-03-2010, 04:26 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,275 posts, read 9,970,295 times
Reputation: 9063
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
I think the term "Unskilled" is unfair.

30 years ago a welder went through VoAg school and went to work as a welder. Did pretty good for himself because he basically stuck 2 pieces of steel together. Now days with all the certifications needed and the training required and the ability to stick two pieces of stell together have changed.

Let's not get Skilled / Unskilled confused with Educated and uneducated.

College is great. But when that person goes to work, he is unskilled. Experience plays a big roll.
Good point. We tend to have college-educated folks calling non-college-required forms of work "unskilled." Assuming they've never done it before, I'd really like to see the kind of welding job they would do on a structure, or how a house would turn out if they built it, or how the plumbing would turn out if they roughed it in, or how a road grade would turn out if they ran the grader/bulldozer, or even how their harvest would turn out if they planted it? And I wonder if they would still call it "unskilled" once it wasn't so "unskilled" as they thought it was?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2010, 06:53 PM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,440,508 times
Reputation: 25990
Classic taking something out of context. I was talking about people who graduate from college, and are still unskilled at anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2010, 07:11 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,275 posts, read 9,970,295 times
Reputation: 9063
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Classic taking something out of context. I was talking about people who graduate from college, and are still unskilled at anything.
Talking general opinions here, not so much what you said. I see that attitude almost daily. But I'm not saying it's yours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2010, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Texas!!! It's hot but I don't care :)
549 posts, read 1,269,913 times
Reputation: 252
Firstly: All I did was drink for a few months-not alone obviously. It was recommended to drink and go to bars to make friends in Minot, so don't take that out of context either. Also, I am not asking for a great job where I just sit on my butt all day. I am asking for a job where I do real work and get paid a relatively low salary compared to what most people are wanting today. As for college, I went to college years ago before the recession so it did make sense, at the time. It's not my fault the recession just happened when I graduated. What I'm saying is, so many people say that I cant' find a good paying job because I don't want to or I have a bad attitude and that's why i can't find anything that pays well. But it's not true. I can't find anything here...if there are jobs that pay well, it's very job specific: truck drivers, oil rig workers, etc. I would think there are some basic entry level jobs that pay more than $9 an hr, right? Every state seems to have these except North Dakota. Or at least Minot. And thank you for someone agreeing with me about Minot! I have been trying to make the best of this place. Of course on here I rant and complain because I'm trying to get information but I don't do that everyday all day every minute of the day. I have looked for jobs, I have made friends, I have been to every festival Minot has, every store Minot has, surrounding areas, I have given this place a chance. I would just like a break. I just want a job that will allow us to save money and take vacations so we can get the heck out of Minot and faaaaaarrrrr away at least every once in awhile. If we are going to be here for 8 years or even two more years I want to be able to get away and be able to save money and start paying loans off. I think Minot would be more enjoyable then but right now, it's just blech.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2010, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,410,165 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by etjaipleure View Post
Firstly: All I did was drink for a few months-not alone obviously. It was recommended to drink and go to bars to make friends in Minot, so don't take that out of context either. Also, I am not asking for a great job where I just sit on my butt all day. I am asking for a job where I do real work and get paid a relatively low salary compared to what most people are wanting today. As for college, I went to college years ago before the recession so it did make sense, at the time. It's not my fault the recession just happened when I graduated. What I'm saying is, so many people say that I cant' find a good paying job because I don't want to or I have a bad attitude and that's why i can't find anything that pays well. But it's not true. I can't find anything here...if there are jobs that pay well, it's very job specific: truck drivers, oil rig workers, etc. I would think there are some basic entry level jobs that pay more than $9 an hr, right? Every state seems to have these except North Dakota. Or at least Minot. And thank you for someone agreeing with me about Minot! I have been trying to make the best of this place. Of course on here I rant and complain because I'm trying to get information but I don't do that everyday all day every minute of the day. I have looked for jobs, I have made friends, I have been to every festival Minot has, every store Minot has, surrounding areas, I have given this place a chance. I would just like a break. I just want a job that will allow us to save money and take vacations so we can get the heck out of Minot and faaaaaarrrrr away at least every once in awhile. If we are going to be here for 8 years or even two more years I want to be able to get away and be able to save money and start paying loans off. I think Minot would be more enjoyable then but right now, it's just blech.
All really good points. Here's part of the problem.

You can not compare Minot's pay scale vrs another states pay scale for the same job. North Dakota is a low income state, as is Wyoming, South Dakota, Montana. It's just the area. These states are also a low cost of living. Not a lot lower, but low cost. Don't just look at the Price of a house and evaluate it as being the same. Include things like:

Cost of a plumber, painter, yardwork, mechanic, any job you need on your stuff that is mainly labor driven. It will be lower.

Utilities. People around here complain all the time about the cost of utilities. I do to. My utilities have gone up by over 30% in the last year. But the truth be known, my cabin is completely electric and I currently pay about $70 a month. I have central air and central heat and I keep it set at 70 year round. So really, by most peoples standards, I shouldn't complain.

Look at insurance rates. What is the cost of full coverage where you are at to where you'd get the job you would like. I'll bet there is a big difference.

So if you take a look at total income and total outgo, the great looking job, elsewhere, doesn't look nearly as great.

I understand your frustration. My daughter was in your shoes a few years back. Her husband was AF and got stationed in Minot. She couldn't even find a job at that time. Not even McDonalds was hiring. But she grew up in a small town and didn't have a lot of expectations. She went to the Nursing home and volunteered 20 hours a week. She went to the hospital and asked if she could even push the magazine card from bed to bed. She went to the library and volunteered. She went to the highschool and volunteered. Wasn't long before she had a large group of friends. The result is, a year later, when the come to visit, she said she loved Minot because there was so much more to do then there was at home. I reminded her that we have a hospital, nursing home, library, high school. She'd just never tried it before.

Husband re-enlisted and they decided to turn down orders elsewhere and stay in Minot.
__________________
[B][COLOR="Red"]"No Copyrighted Material."[/COLOR][/B]
[URL="http://www.city-data.com/"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]CD Home page[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html"][COLOR="seagreen"]TOS (Terms of Service)[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/107997-search-function-using-search-function.html"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]How to Search,[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]FAQ's[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/70589-guide-guide-city-data-posting.html"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Guide[/COLOR][/URL]
[URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/wyoming/"]Wyoming[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/montana/"]Montana[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/north-dakota/"]North Dakota[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/south-dakota/"]South Dakota[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/guns-hunting/"]Guns and Hunting[/URL]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2010, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Texas!!! It's hot but I don't care :)
549 posts, read 1,269,913 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
All really good points. Here's part of the problem.

You can not compare Minot's pay scale vrs another states pay scale for the same job. North Dakota is a low income state, as is Wyoming, South Dakota, Montana. It's just the area. These states are also a low cost of living. Not a lot lower, but low cost. Don't just look at the Price of a house and evaluate it as being the same. Include things like:

Cost of a plumber, painter, yardwork, mechanic, any job you need on your stuff that is mainly labor driven. It will be lower.

Utilities. People around here complain all the time about the cost of utilities. I do to. My utilities have gone up by over 30% in the last year. But the truth be known, my cabin is completely electric and I currently pay about $70 a month. I have central air and central heat and I keep it set at 70 year round. So really, by most peoples standards, I shouldn't complain.

Look at insurance rates. What is the cost of full coverage where you are at to where you'd get the job you would like. I'll bet there is a big difference.

So if you take a look at total income and total outgo, the great looking job, elsewhere, doesn't look nearly as great.

I understand your frustration. My daughter was in your shoes a few years back. Her husband was AF and got stationed in Minot. She couldn't even find a job at that time. Not even McDonalds was hiring. But she grew up in a small town and didn't have a lot of expectations. She went to the Nursing home and volunteered 20 hours a week. She went to the hospital and asked if she could even push the magazine card from bed to bed. She went to the library and volunteered. She went to the highschool and volunteered. Wasn't long before she had a large group of friends. The result is, a year later, when the come to visit, she said she loved Minot because there was so much more to do then there was at home. I reminded her that we have a hospital, nursing home, library, high school. She'd just never tried it before.

Husband re-enlisted and they decided to turn down orders elsewhere and stay in Minot.
It's really great that your daughter was able to make friends and volunteer. Some people like it some people don't. But I HAVE to have a job. We cannot make it without me having a job and I used to have two jobs just so we'd have extra money to actually DO something but it became too much. A job you don't like to go to is also draining so by the time I get home, work out, and make dinner and do homework, volunteering isn't really something I have time to do. But as for the low cost of living...I'm not so sure about that.

I don't mean to undermine what you're saying, I'm sure some stuff is lower, but gas is at least 50 cents higher here than in Washing DC. Which is pretty ridiculous. Movies cost more or around the same as Dallas but Dallas has discounts, this movie theater does not. The stores in bigger cities also all offer student and military discounts, they do not here in Minot. Wal Mart and the restaurants are the same, as well. Housing prices and rent prices are the same, but sometimes paying more in a bigger city gets you a nicer place than paying more here in Minot. Also, places there allow pets. We lost out a lot of money having to find a place that allowed pets which was not told to us before we moved here. Most apartments and rental houses in big cities allow pets for cheaper deposits. So we had to pay to stay longer in a hotel, which of course was our preference to keep our pet. But even if we had gotten rid of the pets, it still would've taken FOREVER to find somewhere to live. Utilities...to me, they seem pretty even keel except in the winter, which lasts so longer here, the heating bill every month was $180!! In the places I'm from in the south, not even close. So...utilities seem to even out. The only difference I can see is bigger cities usually have more job opportunities and higher pay available. Minot does not. So...from my perspective and in my opinion, Minot does not have a lot to offer. And it's not like I'm the only one who thinks this. I hear it all the time from at least 5 of my friends and then people I bump into also don't like it here. Pretty much for the same reasons. One of my friends just collects unemployment because she was making a very nice salary in DC moves here and they want to pay her around $12 for the same thing. When you look at it that way, it's not worth it. To us, in our opinions, Minot is just not an enjoyable place. We are trying to make the best of it and trying to have fun and having friends definitely helps but the reality is, I have school loans I have to pay back shortly and I need a real job that pays-not a McDonald's salary.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,081,168 times
Reputation: 3454
Quote:
Originally Posted by etjaipleure View Post
It's really great that your daughter was able to make friends and volunteer. Some people like it some people don't. But I HAVE to have a job. We cannot make it without me having a job and I used to have two jobs just so we'd have extra money to actually DO something but it became too much. A job you don't like to go to is also draining so by the time I get home, work out, and make dinner and do homework, volunteering isn't really something I have time to do. But as for the low cost of living...I'm not so sure about that.
I tend to agree with your last sentence....the cost of living if you live in one of the larger cities really isnt lower than in many places in the midwest and plains and in many cases costs are a bit higher. I found that out as well when I moved up from Springfield, Missouri to Grand Forks in 1998. I dont know how the two places would compare now.

Generally...housing in GF was about 20,000 more....had a 1500 sq ft ranch (no basement) in Springfield, MO brand new cost $103,000 with yearly real estate taxes of about $750 and no special assessments. In Grand Forks....1978 split level 1800 sq ft for 124k. This was right after the flood so prices were a bit inflated due to less supply. Real estate taxes yearly were $2200.

Car Insurance about the same (safe driver discount, etc)...utilties to me about the same give or take. I dont recall income tax differences. Food and gasoline were a bit higher in GF. For some reason to this day gas prices in GF are about 10-20 cents higher than in Fargo, and when my in-laws come to visit they say GF is cheaper than Minot usually.

Of course with taxes....GF city has many more services and much more park district activities than I recall in Springfield...so pay what you get I suppose.

But for me the costs didnt matter....I wanted to move up north so desire overrode any money issues.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2010, 02:18 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,275 posts, read 9,970,295 times
Reputation: 9063
It seems to me that the larger cities of ND are about the same as any other large city as far as expenses (don't know about jobs since I'm not there, although it sounds sort of like where I am now--normal cost of living, but low pay). But, I have found in my research that the smaller towns surrounding the larger towns are way way cheaper as far as land. Seriously, I paid less than a $1000 dollars for a building lot. That same lot is about $30,000 to $60,000 around here, and that's just bare land. If I look to the very smallest, most remote towns here, I have seen building lots for around $5000. So, I have to say that lots in small-town ND are very cheap. And the one I got is within commuting distance of Grand Forks (long commute, but doable).

On the other hand, I keep reading horror stories here on the CD forum about other aspects of North Dakota: such as having a "brand" in the middle of your forehead if you are from out of state--no one will give you, the outsider, the time of day; cost of everything else is more expensive; nothing to do (I couldn't care less about this--the less there is "to do," the less noise and confusion I'll have to tolerate); housing is expensive (I'll be building my own very small home, so, that doesn't matter much); there are no jobs (how can that be? there are people living in ND--doesn't anyone work there?); and so on and so forth.

At times, this has me shaking my head and wondering if a move to ND is a good thing or not. Maybe I should switch my plans back to UP Michigan (my original intended destination). But then I think of my attitude about where I live now. Frankly, when someone asks about moving here, I'm pretty negative. There are a million things I don't like about the area. On the other hand, many people find the place to be heaven on earth. My attitude about where I live gives me hope that perhaps moving to ND will work out just fine. I'm sure there are lots of folks like me in ND who just don't like where they live for whatever reason. And of course, they are looking through black sunglasses at ND, just as I look through black sunglasses at my current area. Those same people could move to wherever they wish to go and tell how wonderful it is... and I would probably hate it (for instance, I've read "Dallas" a few times... you couldn't pay me enough to live there... noooooo way).

I guess the best thing to do is just research whatever facts one can find and take comments with a grain of salt. Everyone is different and you just have to experience it for yourself to know if YOU like it or not. It is kind of an expensive experiment, though. And visiting a place vs living in a place are completely different animals. Just have to go for it, I guess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2010, 03:59 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,896,672 times
Reputation: 8127
Quote:
Originally Posted by etjaipleure View Post
It's really great that your daughter was able to make friends and volunteer. Some people like it some people don't. But I HAVE to have a job. We cannot make it without me having a job and I used to have two jobs just so we'd have extra money to actually DO something but it became too much. A job you don't like to go to is also draining so by the time I get home, work out, and make dinner and do homework, volunteering isn't really something I have time to do. But as for the low cost of living...I'm not so sure about that.

I don't mean to undermine what you're saying, I'm sure some stuff is lower, but gas is at least 50 cents higher here than in Washing DC. Which is pretty ridiculous. Movies cost more or around the same as Dallas but Dallas has discounts, this movie theater does not. The stores in bigger cities also all offer student and military discounts, they do not here in Minot. Wal Mart and the restaurants are the same, as well. Housing prices and rent prices are the same, but sometimes paying more in a bigger city gets you a nicer place than paying more here in Minot. Also, places there allow pets. We lost out a lot of money having to find a place that allowed pets which was not told to us before we moved here. Most apartments and rental houses in big cities allow pets for cheaper deposits. So we had to pay to stay longer in a hotel, which of course was our preference to keep our pet. But even if we had gotten rid of the pets, it still would've taken FOREVER to find somewhere to live. Utilities...to me, they seem pretty even keel except in the winter, which lasts so longer here, the heating bill every month was $180!! In the places I'm from in the south, not even close. So...utilities seem to even out. The only difference I can see is bigger cities usually have more job opportunities and higher pay available. Minot does not. So...from my perspective and in my opinion, Minot does not have a lot to offer. And it's not like I'm the only one who thinks this. I hear it all the time from at least 5 of my friends and then people I bump into also don't like it here. Pretty much for the same reasons. One of my friends just collects unemployment because she was making a very nice salary in DC moves here and they want to pay her around $12 for the same thing. When you look at it that way, it's not worth it. To us, in our opinions, Minot is just not an enjoyable place. We are trying to make the best of it and trying to have fun and having friends definitely helps but the reality is, I have school loans I have to pay back shortly and I need a real job that pays-not a McDonald's salary.

--We cannot make it without me having a job---

Why not ?

Military pay is pretty good plus food allowance and either free housing or subsidized housing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Dakota
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top