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One thing I've noticed on every state forum that I've visited is frequent negativity toward posts expressing a desire to move to that state. For a time, it actually annoyed me to no end. But then one day I assessed my own attitude toward the area I live. Until recently, when someone posted about moving to Utah, I instantly named off the multitude of reasons I think Utah largely sucks. Once I realized I was doing the exact same thing that I despised, I made an effort to knock it off and concentrate on the things that might have prompted them to ask in the first place. Doesn't mean that I suddenly like it here or that I won't say anything negative in posts. It simply means that I am looking at my area through a negative lens--and because I don't like the area, those (self-declared) negative aspects will always surface first when responding to "I want to move to Utah, the land of milk and honey." And those negative aspects may or may not be true, or even matter, for others; so, I will at least try to be helpful despite my negativity.
I'm planning a move to North Dakota. There are some helpful posters here. I'm sure they all know who they are. Then, there are the types of posters that I am (or at least, have been) when writing about Utah: I just don't like it, and I want to make sure nobody else does, either. I call it being "realistic," but in reality it's only realistic if you are wearing my gloomy-day-colored sunglasses--which automatically filter out any comment that may be positive. I'm slowly getting over it; but it's hard, since I live in this place that I really don't like all that much day in and day out. Of course I'm going to lash out about it, right?
The thing that I, and every other "negative lens" poster needs to realize, is that our reality is not everyone's reality. You have to realize that people have thought this through and have targeted North Dakota (or wherever) as a new home for certain "positive" characteristics of which you may have just the opposite opinion and consider "negative" characteristics. Most people are not going to pick a place to move unless that place has something they want, and perhaps more importantly, doesn't have the things they don't want. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd assume that an individual who wants to move to North Dakota is not moving there to get the things that they'd find in NYC or Miami or even the twin cities. So there is really no point in pointing it out... because it's obvious. That's exactly WHY they are thinking of North Dakota in the first place. I know that's certainly the way it is for me. I don't care about all the "amenities" it doesn't have. I can cook my own Thai food. I have two hands and a recipe book. And if I wanted a concert twice a week, an opera on Tuesday (I'd have to be VERY drunk to want that!), a library poetry reading on Wednesday, and a silly ball game on Sunday afternoon, I'd be looking somewhere else. If North Dakota had all the "offerings" of NYC, I wouldn't be on this forum. I'd be over on the Alaska forum, asking about interior Alaska's small towns or what it's like in Unalaska... and I'll bet I'd get the same negative responses: no high-paying fluff jobs, no diversity, nothing to do, it's cold, everyone is drunk, people are narrow-minded, those horrible Christians, nobody pays attention to me and entertains me 24/7, blah, blah, blah, blah...
Mmmm-kay... let me hop on down from my soapbox now. You have a nice day.
We're all different and lots of choices makes a menu. For Americans, we have 50+ choices including Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands, as well as many outlying Pacific atolls.
I wanted to throw my two cents in. You can find what you are looking for a number of states. Many of which you mentioned. I do think the idea of the Dakotas (and similar rural states) being a bit more stand off-ish with newcomers is that history had dictated that the rural farmers had to stand close to one another and you depended on each other for help. It was maybe a bit necessary to be at first stand off-ish to newcomers until they had proved them worthy of being here and tough enough to handle the area. Nowadays...that old time thinking can still come through especially in small towns. They can be quite closed minded at times, but at the same time from my experience if you prove yourself to be a worthy individual, willing to help others and the community, then you are very welcomed. In my experience coming from another state 12 yrs ago, friends can be hard to come by in our area but once you get friends they are very protective and will help you out.
You mentioned rolling hills, pretty much the central and western parts of each state are that. The eastern parts a bit less and flat....especially in the Red River valley where I live. You can pick from any number of small cities....such as Minot...Jamestown ND...Aberdeen SD....Mitchell SD...Pierre SD...all of these are in prime hunting areas and in an area of more rolling hills (well Aberdeen is in the James River valley so more flat there).
I wanted to move up north because I liked cold weather. I grew up in KY and hated the hot/humid weather and still to this day I could never live long term much anyplace south of 40 degrees N latitude. I love the wide open spaces...rolling prairie.... All of that trumps the desire to live closer to a larger metro area with a more variety of stores, eating, and things to do. It is a trade off. You have to see what is most important and go from there. You can't have everything and once you understand that you can be at peace.
One thing I've noticed on every state forum that I've visited is frequent negativity toward posts expressing a desire to move to that state. For a time, it actually annoyed me to no end. But then one day I assessed my own attitude toward the area I live. Until recently, when someone posted about moving to Utah, I instantly named off the multitude of reasons I think Utah largely sucks. Once I realized I was doing the exact same thing that I despised, I made an effort to knock it off and concentrate on the things that might have prompted them to ask in the first place. Doesn't mean that I suddenly like it here or that I won't say anything negative in posts. It simply means that I am looking at my area through a negative lens--and because I don't like the area, those (self-declared) negative aspects will always surface first when responding to "I want to move to Utah, the land of milk and honey." And those negative aspects may or may not be true, or even matter, for others; so, I will at least try to be helpful despite my negativity.
I'm planning a move to North Dakota. There are some helpful posters here. I'm sure they all know who they are. Then, there are the types of posters that I am (or at least, have been) when writing about Utah: I just don't like it, and I want to make sure nobody else does, either. I call it being "realistic," but in reality it's only realistic if you are wearing my gloomy-day-colored sunglasses--which automatically filter out any comment that may be positive. I'm slowly getting over it; but it's hard, since I live in this place that I really don't like all that much day in and day out. Of course I'm going to lash out about it, right?
The thing that I, and every other "negative lens" poster needs to realize, is that our reality is not everyone's reality. You have to realize that people have thought this through and have targeted North Dakota (or wherever) as a new home for certain "positive" characteristics of which you may have just the opposite opinion and consider "negative" characteristics. Most people are not going to pick a place to move unless that place has something they want, and perhaps more importantly, doesn't have the things they don't want. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd assume that an individual who wants to move to North Dakota is not moving there to get the things that they'd find in NYC or Miami or even the twin cities. So there is really no point in pointing it out... because it's obvious. That's exactly WHY they are thinking of North Dakota in the first place. I know that's certainly the way it is for me. I don't care about all the "amenities" it doesn't have. I can cook my own Thai food. I have two hands and a recipe book. And if I wanted a concert twice a week, an opera on Tuesday (I'd have to be VERY drunk to want that!), a library poetry reading on Wednesday, and a silly ball game on Sunday afternoon, I'd be looking somewhere else. If North Dakota had all the "offerings" of NYC, I wouldn't be on this forum. I'd be over on the Alaska forum, asking about interior Alaska's small towns or what it's like in Unalaska... and I'll bet I'd get the same negative responses: no high-paying fluff jobs, no diversity, nothing to do, it's cold, everyone is drunk, people are narrow-minded, those horrible Christians, nobody pays attention to me and entertains me 24/7, blah, blah, blah, blah...
Mmmm-kay... let me hop on down from my soapbox now. You have a nice day.
At the same time... no place is all rainbows and butterflies for everyone... we could all sit around and blow hot air up each other's hooha's and feel good about ourselves or we can try to provide a blended and impartial view of how we see the world so they are best able to decide for themselves what's right for them. While concentrating solely on the bad of any location is silly as all locations have some good, the same can be said for only looking at the good as there is no nirvana for all.
North Dakota isn't the last place I'd live but nor is it the first. For others it may be... but they should be as fully informed as possible before making a big decision.
And... every now and again it's a good idea to point out something they may not have thought of. Most people would rather be politely educated of their ignorance versus traveling through life completely naive to what they don't know.
As someone who has lived in SD for seven years, I will give you my own viewpoint. If you can, live outside of the town you want to move to. If you decide to live in a small town (and that's mostly what there is in the Dakotas), be prepared to be living in a fish bowl. People will know your business even if you never tell them a word. Gossip rules out here whether it's true or false. Be prepared for the clique experience. People in the Dakotas excel at it. Must be a Scandinavian thing. When you are in town, expect them #1, introduce themselves, and #2, "What do you do?". This is so they can claim to be the first at the local cafe to know your name and what you do for a living. No joke, you'll see.
If you want a larger metro area (90,000+ people) your options are Sioux Falls, SD; Fargo, ND; Bismarck ND; and Grand Forks, ND in descending size order. Typically most areas in the Dakotas you will find those "We are looking for more the way America used to be." Crime rates are low. I know I mentioned Fargo in the other topic but you will find all of those things.
friendly: The majority of people are friendly, even to transplants like myself
hard-working people without attitudes: the Midwest is known for this. You will find very hard working people (but of course there are also bums).
family-oriented: Family is important in Fargo. The schools are great, they have great amenities like a children's museum, and lots of events for kids.
courteousness and civic-minded citizens: People care about what goes on in town.
a place where one doesn't have to look over their shoulder for trouble if at the ATM or in a parking lot at night: Fargo is very safe, especially for the size of the town.
baseball/softball games with hotdogs on a Saturday: Easily available from little leauge to minor leage to Division I college.
neighbors that actually will lend a hand: People are very helping and will lend a hand. Heck, just take a look at the 2009 and 2010 flood response. It was amazing.
If you want to see what residents will do for each other take a look at the following and related youtube vidoes
People came from across the state, SD, MN, and other areas to help out. I dont recall the exact number but tens of thousands of people from the area helped out (I just saw 80,000 people helped out). While this shows what happens in desperate times of need, it very easily translates to what neighbors will often do to help out. Also, dont worry, its not like the whole city floods, most of the flooding was along the river and Fargo has plenty of real estate in other areas.
While others have mentioned cold, is always over rated. Yes it is cold, but personally I do not think unbearable. For an idea of averages take a look at Fargo, North Dakota - Climate chart
There are an average of 39.9 snowy days and 46 inches... though some melt will occur throughout. You will Not continuously be snow-blowing 2-4 ft of snow, unless you have some odd drifting or something. My experience is that you snow blow as much as you would expect in the Midwest, after larger snowfalls, but not all the time. I have not had problems starting my car and it was outside and not plugged in. You only have to worry about freezing fingers if your gloves get wet or you are outside for a long time.
You will find most modern conveniences in Fargo, from food to art to music. You will easily find cable and high speed internet in Fargo.
Well, it looks like we have more or less settled on ND over SD. We've weighed the pros and cons of both and ND seems to "fit" us better. We plan on visiting to check out the area as soon as we can. It will be a bit of a bummer to pay state tax again, but it's a small price to pay to get as many positives as we see we will get in moving. Texas has no state tax, but our sales tax is high and our property tax is outrageously so. Not to mention car insurance rates here are equally outrageous because of all the illegal immigrants who drive without it.
A couple of years ago, not having car insurance in TX became a major thing. Not having it now is a huge no-no. I've always held car insurance myself, but apparently 1 in 5 do not. Now, if you get stopped in Texas, the police use a program on their car computers called TexasSure to see whether or not you are insured before they even get out of their car to address you for whatever reason you have been stopped. And, even though they know if you are insured, the law states that you must provide physical proof as well.
I know it varies from person to person and within regions, but is ND a relatively "cheap" state as far as car insurance goes? What about house insurance?
Well, it looks like we have more or less settled on ND over SD. We've weighed the pros and cons of both and ND seems to "fit" us better. We plan on visiting to check out the area as soon as we can. It will be a bit of a bummer to pay state tax again, but it's a small price to pay to get as many positives as we see we will get in moving. Texas has no state tax, but our sales tax is high and our property tax is outrageously so. Not to mention car insurance rates here are equally outrageous because of all the illegal immigrants who drive without it.
A couple of years ago, not having car insurance in TX became a major thing. Not having it now is a huge no-no. I've always held car insurance myself, but apparently 1 in 5 do not. Now, if you get stopped in Texas, the police use a program on their car computers called TexasSure to see whether or not you are insured before they even get out of their car to address you for whatever reason you have been stopped. And, even though they know if you are insured, the law states that you must provide physical proof as well.
I know it varies from person to person and within regions, but is ND a relatively "cheap" state as far as car insurance goes? What about house insurance?
As always, thanks for the generous responses.
Insurance is a good deal up here. I would encourage you to get your home and car insurance from the same company as most will give you discounts if you do so. We do that and have accident free discounts and no driver under 25 discounts. So in our situation...we have an 07 Honda Odyssey and 07 Yukon XL and each runs close to 350 every 6 months.... we pay around 80 dollars each month for both. We have full coverage with 500 deductable through State Farm.
Our home is through SF as well with replacement coverage for 225k. I honestly cannot recall specifically what it runs as it is billed through our mortgage escrow account. 500 or so per year sounds about right though.
I also wanted to say that most cities in ND property tax is about 2 to 2.3 percent of the accessed value.
Dan
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Fargo is a great option
