ND low unemployment rate (Fargo, Grand Forks: condo, purchase, high school)

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by Time and Space

Some factors to consider...

1. Low population, low unemployment...

2. Cold weather, long harsh cold winters...a turn off to many, so they don't go there...thus keeps population low..

3.North Dakota is not a destination place, for those looking for a better life, like say Los Angelos is, or New York or Miami...there's no Hollywood or film industry in ND where people leave home with $1.00 in pocket and a year later are on Oprah's show telling their story...

4. A lot of unemployment comes from big industries that move in, and then move out, thus leaving people unemployed...My guess is that doesn't occur in ND...growth is slow and steady...

5. If your unemployed or already down, ND is not exactly the place you think of going for more opportunity, there-by cutting down on an excess population.

6. Like where I'm from...a wide open ag state...you really don't move there, unless you have a purpose...that purpose being school (college)(University)(military)...there's just not a whole lot of loitering in cold ag states...

To me, those are just some of the possible obvious reasons...

But again I'd like to emphasize big industry...since there's never really been any in ND, none closed and sent people packing...

I'm no expert, but this seems like a really good analysis of the situation. Someone else mentioned that ND is not the kind of place you "loiter" around without an income--typical for areas with really cold winters and no giant urban areas to offer "padding."

[Roloff1976]

North Dakota's low un-employment is not just because of its small population base like some are suggesting. Not everyone in North Dakota is a farmer. Similar states with low populations similar to North Dakotas....like Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota...Wyoming and Montana's unemployment is twice that of North Dakota...South Dakota is close to North Dakota's, but not as low. North Dakota's unemployment WOULD probably be in the 6-9% if it wasn't for the oil industry. North Dakota also bypassed the national housing bust, because lenders in North Dakota didn't jump on the band wagon to lend to anyone coming in for home loans when they couldn't afford one. The housing bust is ONE of reasons our country is in such a depression...causing banks to go under, construction companies to close up shop, etc... etc...

[etjaipleure]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

Also keep in mind that North Dakota doesn't have any really large cities with large amounts of urban poor; it's a very rural state. Also, if you are college educated and unemployed it's quite likely that you would leave North Dakota for better opportunities in a large city.

For some reason low wages (other than in the oil patch) accompany the low unemployment even though the cost of living is really not that low. It would be interesting to know what percentage of North Dakotans are college educated and either underpaid and/or underemployed (at retail and blue collar jobs).

I know several people (myself included) who fit this college degree but blue collar/retail jobs that don't require a degree. The wages are very low but there aren't a lot of jobs that demand college degrees here. That could also be another reason the unemployment rate looks so low. People who live in ND who have a college degree leave to find jobs or people who have lived here go to college in another state and don't come back so there are many jobs available where you don't need experience or degrees left for everyone who stayed in ND. Again, I think it's very sad that I got a job because I took off all my education and GPA information. Got several calls for interviews the same day after I had applied for the positions the night before. This doesn't really make sense but hey. It's ND. Both positions were sort of a lateral move, not really a move up but kinda take what you can get here!

[flyingcat2k]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

I'm no expert, but this seems like a really good analysis of the situation. Someone else mentioned that ND is not the kind of place you "loiter" around without an income--typical for areas with really cold winters and no giant urban areas to offer "padding."

Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas have had deep discussions in legislatures on how they can keep "padding" to a bare minimum while making sure people don't die due to exposure or food. So far, Wyoming has done the most by out and out refusing to grow entitlement spending. North Dakota and Montana have split personalities on this with heavily liberal areas trying to increase funding and heavily conservative areas reducing funding. South Dakota is notoriously stingy and fairly unwelcoming to people from CA trying to move in around the Black Hills.

Unemployment funds in these states are amongst the lowest paying and shortest durations of payments. It's not that you can't get help but welfare system lifers aren't welcome.

[nemmert]

Originally Posted by Roloff1976

North Dakota's low un-employment is not just because of its small population base like some are suggesting. Not everyone in North Dakota is a farmer. Similar states with low populations similar to North Dakotas....like Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota...Wyoming and Montana's unemployment is twice that of North Dakota...South Dakota is close to North Dakota's, but not as low. North Dakota's unemployment WOULD probably be in the 6-9% if it wasn't for the oil industry. North Dakota also bypassed the national housing bust, because lenders in North Dakota didn't jump on the band wagon to lend to anyone coming in for home loans when they couldn't afford one. The housing bust is ONE of reasons our country is in such a depression...causing banks to go under, construction companies to close up shop, etc... etc...

ND's unemployment doesn't really change because it has no real industry. Seriously, what do people in ND do? If they are professional they most likely work for the Government. Others are in the farming industry. Most of the rest of the state supports one of those two functions or the military or colleges in places like Minot, Grand Forks, and Fargo. There is next to no manufacturing to take a hit in a down cycle. There is next to no tourism which gets effected when things get tight. If a business closes in ND it's 4 employees are out of a job. If a factory closes in MI or an investment bank in NJ it's 100s or 1,000s of jobs lost.

The other thing that helps keep unemployment low in ND is salary. If you lose your $25,000 a year job, you're willing to accept a job at target because the $18,000 a year they're paying maintains a semblence of life. In NJ, when you lose a $120,000 a year job, you're better off collecting unemployment and searching for a job full time then accepting an $18,000 a year job which doesn't even cover the property taxes on your house. Replacing a low paying job with another low paying job is easy. Replacing a career is a whole nother ballgame.

[jm31828]

Originally Posted by nemmert

ND's unemployment doesn't really change because it has no real industry. Seriously, what do people in ND do? If they are professional they most likely work for the Government. Others are in the farming industry. Most of the rest of the state supports one of those two functions or the military or colleges in places like Minot, Grand Forks, and Fargo. There is next to no manufacturing to take a hit in a down cycle. There is next to no tourism which gets effected when things get tight. If a business closes in ND it's 4 employees are out of a job. If a factory closes in MI or an investment bank in NJ it's 100s or 1,000s of jobs lost.

The other thing that helps keep unemployment low in ND is salary. If you lose your $25,000 a year job, you're willing to accept a job at target because the $18,000 a year they're paying maintains a semblence of life. In NJ, when you lose a $120,000 a year job, you're better off collecting unemployment and searching for a job full time then accepting an $18,000 a year job which doesn't even cover the property taxes on your house. Replacing a low paying job with another low paying job is easy. Replacing a career is a whole nother ballgame.

Excellent post. I am from South Dakota and Nebraska- two others with very low unemployment- and this goes for those states as well. I left Nebraska last year when it had the 2nd lowest unemployment in the nation. That is really a false number- it's true that not many places in that part of the country were laying people off, but even in good times there just isn't much EMPLOYMENT there- people have jobs and don't lose them in big numbers, but if you are searching for a decent job there is not a lot to choose from.

[Roloff1976]

nemmert...I agree with jm31828...your post makes a lot of sense. When the ag industry has a bad year, we don't see unemployemnt rise because the farmers just deal with it...they don't go to their local job service to apply for unemployment. You don't see many layoffs in the state government, it has to continue on whether the economy is good or bad. Right now, North Dakota has seen a huge increase in numbers of people working in the oil industry. It will continue to grow as long as the price of oil stays up there. IF oil should drop and the oil industry goes busts...then ND would see a HUGE increase in unemployment. The oil industry is probably the only industry in North Dakota that employees a huge number of people in the private sector...other than your big box stores, etc...

[flyingcat2k]

I'm a little shocked at the lack of economic data.

From North Dakota's Job Bank, NDs largest employers

1) Altru Health System (Hospitals)
2) BCBS of North Dakota
3) Bobcat
4) Butler Machinery
5) Cass County Electric Co-op

2 Manufacturers, 2 health companies and an electric utility. The oil boom/bust does impact the unemployment figures but it will be Western ND that bears the brunt of a bust. Oil has to get to ~50/bbl for drilling to end in ND so it might go for a while. It will go bust at some point though.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by flyingcat2k

Oil has to get to ~50/bbl for drilling to end in ND so it might go for a while. It will go bust at some point though.

I don't foresee this happening during our lifetimes unless electric cars become as practical and as affordable as gasoline-powered cars. The reason why is because the world is simply running out of oil and our ability to pump oil out of the ground is "peaking" as the amount of oil diminishes. This is what is sometimes called "Peak Oil". With the fall of Chinese communism the demand for oil has only increased. An oil shortage and skyrocketing prices are a potential disaster for the U.S. economy and for our society. I'll be happy if the price of oil is able to remain below $100/barrel.

Peak Oil News and Message Boards*|*Exploring Hydrocarbon Depletion

[lisan23]

Originally Posted by flyingcat2k

I'm a little shocked at the lack of economic data.

From North Dakota's Job Bank, NDs largest employers

1) Altru Health System (Hospitals)
2) BCBS of North Dakota
3) Bobcat
4) Butler Machinery
5) Cass County Electric Co-op

2 Manufacturers, 2 health companies and an electric utility. The oil boom/bust does impact the unemployment figures but it will be Western ND that bears the brunt of a bust. Oil has to get to ~50/bbl for drilling to end in ND so it might go for a while. It will go bust at some point though.

First, how old are those numbers or when was the data gathered? If it was more than a year ago then it's not going to reflect the boom.

Second, you have to take into consideration that the east part of North Dakota is far more populated than the west half of North Dakota, and all of the oil jobs are in the western part of North Dakota.

Third, due to a lack of population they estimate that there are thousands of open jobs in the western part of the state. With the lack of housing, this number isn't likely to get any better any time soon.

So taking into consideration the lack of employees, the lack of housing, and the possible age of the information you wouldn't see an oil company in the top 5.