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Old 11-07-2011, 04:56 PM
 
443 posts, read 697,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by internationalman View Post
No worries FOAD. Besides me not actually being interested in the full mountaineering suit, I think you also missed this part of my post:

My guess is once you are hired the companies would give great advice on how to dress since they obviously have a stake in you keeping warm while working.
Benevolent corporations in the oil patch? Did Capitalism change when I wasn't looking? The co.'s interest in you is as a unit of production. There stake is in costs related to training, wages, benefits, housing, and (maybe) in clothing/protective gear. You have to prove to them that you are worth their investment- and keep proving it, cold or warm. Big Oil has an entirely different business philosophy than Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream had.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ursa22 View Post
Benevolent corporations in the oil patch? Did Capitalism change when I wasn't looking? The co.'s interest in you is as a unit of production. There stake is in costs related to training, wages, benefits, housing, and (maybe) in clothing/protective gear. You have to prove to them that you are worth their investment- and keep proving it, cold or warm. Big Oil has an entirely different business philosophy than Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream had.
Seems you and I have a different understanding of "capitalism" (I use that word guardedly when referring to any big corporation in America since most of them hardly practice anything close to "capitalism").

There is nothing "benevolent" about keeping your labor costs low. It is just good business. And while state capitalism or rather "crony capitalism" is not the real deal, "Big Oil" certainly understands how to maximize their profits. Encouraging high labor turnover by not ensuring your workers are properly clothed in extreme environments from the get go in the regulatory milieu known as America is not a way to maximize profits.

It is however a way to invite serious government scrutiny (and thus increase your costs).
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:21 PM
 
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Totally agree with you InternationalMan
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:14 PM
 
443 posts, read 697,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by internationalman View Post
Seems you and I have a different understanding of "capitalism" (I use that word guardedly when referring to any big corporation in America since most of them hardly practice anything close to "capitalism").

There is nothing "benevolent" about keeping your labor costs low. It is just good business. And while state capitalism or rather "crony capitalism" is not the real deal, "Big Oil" certainly understands how to maximize their profits. Encouraging high labor turnover by not ensuring your workers are properly clothed in extreme environments from the get go in the regulatory milieu known as America is not a way to maximize profits.

It is however a way to invite serious government scrutiny (and thus increase your costs).
OK, you're right. Big Oil is waiting to take you in and make sure that you stay warm, and well fed. They'll keep you nice and comfy. Trust me.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ursa22 View Post
OK, you're right. Big Oil is waiting to take you in and make sure that you stay warm, and well fed. They'll keep you nice and comfy. Trust me.
"Big Oil" is neither "benevolent" or waiting "to take me in." That wasn't the point. The point is they will keep their employees warm (and well fed since you brought it up) because its in the best interests of their pocketbooks to do so, not out of some unmeasurable and subjective "kindness of the heart" ethic that you seem to want to impose as a standard of sorts.

And from what I have seen in some of the man camp videos, they seem to understand the concept of "warmth" and "well fed" quite thoroughly in building their labor forces.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by internationalman View Post
"Big Oil" is neither "benevolent" or waiting "to take me in." That wasn't the point. The point is they will keep their employees warm (and well fed since you brought it up) because its in the best interests of their pocketbooks to do so, not out of some unmeasurable and subjective "kindness of the heart" ethic that you seem to want to impose as a standard of sorts.

And from what I have seen in some of the man camp videos, they seem to understand the concept of "warmth" and "well fed" quite thoroughly in building their labor forces.
Yes, the camps are luxurious. Soon, all of those in the Wal-Mart parking lot or in plywood shacks under the 2nd Street bridge will be invited to live in the nice comfortable camps. The city and the companies are working on it. I seen it on the news, so it must be true. Hurry! Don't miss the boom! Opportunity awaits you!
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ursa22 View Post
Yes, the camps are luxurious. Soon, all of those in the Wal-Mart parking lot or in plywood shacks under the 2nd Street bridge will be invited to live in the nice comfortable camps. The city and the companies are working on it. I seen it on the news, so it must be true. Hurry! Don't miss the boom! Opportunity awaits you!
There you go with that kindness of heart thing again, LOL! But engaging in hyperbole is no substitute for a substantive argument.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:33 PM
 
443 posts, read 697,452 times
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Originally Posted by internationalman View Post
There you go with that kindness of heart thing again, LOL! But engaging in hyperbole is no substitute for a substantive argument.
Not here to argue, rather to offer sound advice. Desperate people are flocking here, housing is very competitive and a bad Winter (even for this region) is being predicted.
I have an off-grid cabin 3 hours from Williston. When I spend time there in the Winter, a significant portion of my time is spent splitting wood, hauling wood and tending the stove to keep the place inhabitable. The cabin is well insulated, down in a riverbottom out of the wind, and I have a large stockpile of wood that is cut during Summer and Fall visits. There is no way that I could do my present job (12-14hr shifts) and expect to survive in the cabin, let alone a tipi as you've encourage Alejandro to attempt.
I'm on a 21-10 rotation. The 21 is tough-I'm 46 yrs old and grew up in the region. I'm off at the moment and dread going back. But I will.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:42 PM
 
325 posts, read 783,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursa22 View Post
Not here to argue, rather to offer sound advice. Desperate people are flocking here, housing is very competitive and a bad Winter (even for this region) is being predicted.
I have an off-grid cabin 3 hours from Williston. When I spend time there in the Winter, a significant portion of my time is spent splitting wood, hauling wood and tending the stove to keep the place inhabitable. The cabin is well insulated, down in a riverbottom out of the wind, and I have a large stockpile of wood that is cut during Summer and Fall visits. There is no way that I could do my present job (12-14hr shifts) and expect to survive in the cabin, let alone a tipi as you've encourage Alejandro to attempt.
I'm on a 21-10 rotation. The 21 is tough-I'm 46 yrs old and grew up in the region. I'm off at the moment and dread going back. But I will.
I didn't mean the word argument in the colloquial sense, but rather in the classical sense, i.e. a discussion aimed towards learning something.

At any rate all you say above if fine and well, and I don't know who Alejandro is nor do I wish to engage any further in how to survive in extreme cold weather arguments, as that isn't what we were talking about.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:51 PM
 
443 posts, read 697,452 times
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Originally Posted by internationalman View Post
I didn't mean the word argument in the colloquial sense, but rather in the classical sense, i.e. a discussion aimed towards learning something.

At any rate all you say above if fine and well, and I don't know who Alejandro is nor do I wish to engage any further in how to survive in extreme cold weather arguments, as that isn't what we were talking about.
Alejandro is Jaxteller. He lives in Chicago and is 6'2'', 240 lbs., bilingual, a law abider, and doesn't want to sleep in his car. He is looking into tipis at your suggestion.
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