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Old 05-01-2012, 08:16 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
454 posts, read 812,605 times
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Rebuilding the Valley: Rental Issues - KXNet - Bismarck/Minot/Williston/Dickinson

Quote from the story:

(Tom Pearson, Minot Housing Authority) "What we're hearing from our clients is they're having a hard time finding a place to live. A lot are asking if they can move to other locations so we are losing people. The destination I'm hearing a lot is Fargo because they're saying the rents are more affordable, they can find jobs there, so people are considering moving out of the community because they can't find a place to live. " End Quote

The greed in Minot absolutely floors me . I know it's "The law of supply and demand", I know it's "capitalism at work" and I know all the other phrases used to explain away what is happening in Minot at the present time. What I would really like to know is: When will it level off? For a college student graduating this spring from Minot State University, what do you think their chances are of finding a job, right out of the gate, in Minot, that will pay them a wage (starting out) that will enable them to make rent on a place in Minot and be able to eat after they make rent? Slim to none. It's really sad what has happened and continues to happen in Minot.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:32 PM
 
477 posts, read 1,375,840 times
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Just today I heard from a lady that works at Superior Wells and she is quitting her job there in Williston to move to another town out of state. Her rent just was raised again, it went up to $3,500 a month for a townhouse built in the last boom, 1982 I am guessing. There is no way she can pay that kind of rent nor could most others on one income even working in the oil field industry. It's sad and disgusting that someone could be so greedy and have such a lack of common decency for another human being. How could anyone possibly get ahead with the rapid, continuing rate of property and rental amounts? Other than those that are sitting good already with a job that pays over 150,000 or more.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:46 AM
 
741 posts, read 1,483,828 times
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It would be interesting to know how many housing units would be needed in both Minot and Williston so that supply and demand drop the rental prices below $1000. Maybe 10,000 units in each? An economist should be able to estimate that.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:44 AM
 
1,016 posts, read 2,703,622 times
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The spillover on rent prices is astonishing. I've even heard that places as far East as Esmond and Harvey are experiencing rent increases due to oil patch demand, and they are another hundred miles or so East of Minot.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:06 AM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,088,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisW View Post
The spillover on rent prices is astonishing. I've even heard that places as far East as Esmond and Harvey are experiencing rent increases due to oil patch demand, and they are another hundred miles or so East of Minot.
Yes... a friend of the family has many relatives in Rugby and housing there over the past 2 years has gotten very tight and prices rising. There was some pipeline work in the area too, and combined with stuff out west, no doubt has an impact.

Dan
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:27 AM
 
15,832 posts, read 18,454,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisW View Post
The spillover on rent prices is astonishing. I've even heard that places as far East as Esmond and Harvey are experiencing rent increases due to oil patch demand, and they are another hundred miles or so East of Minot.
I've heard Devils Lake has a housing shortage too, which is further East. I know of situations where folks live in areas like Hatton, Mayville about 30 miles north/west of Grand Forks.....and come home on their week(s) off.
I actually think that is a decent plan...Get your family somewhere safe, live in a mancamp all week....and get away from that mess on days off. Gotta be easier than living right in town....I feel so badly for my neighbors there.
I personally know of many of these so called apartments/townhouses being owned by companies....I think the gouging is atrocious. I wouldn't be able to sleep nights if I ever did something like that. Texas boom here they come!!
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:26 AM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,731 posts, read 9,088,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND View Post
I've heard Devils Lake has a housing shortage too, which is further East. I know of situations where folks live in areas like Hatton, Mayville about 30 miles north/west of Grand Forks.....and come home on their week(s) off.
I actually think that is a decent plan...Get your family somewhere safe, live in a mancamp all week....and get away from that mess on days off. Gotta be easier than living right in town....I feel so badly for my neighbors there.
I personally know of many of these so called apartments/townhouses being owned by companies....I think the gouging is atrocious. I wouldn't be able to sleep nights if I ever did something like that. Texas boom here they come!!
Yeah Jan I recall reading something about that too in Devils Lake. Partly due to the long term flooding there taking out some residences/farms.... but also people moving there from the west.

Devils Lake Housing Woes Continue | WDAZ | Grand Forks, ND
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
394 posts, read 1,047,382 times
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So if you were a developer and were looking at building units (apartments / houses / RV parks) in the oil patch. Would you be willing to do so if rents were say $1000 a unit, and would take 20 years to pay back? Would you risk millions of dollars on a one horse area? Would you be willing to risk your investment dollars and rents were say $2000 - $3000. My guess is most would not take the high risk of investing in the Bakken for "normal" returns. I can tell you as a real estate investor I wouldn't take the risk without the high return.

Way too many people lost their shirts in the 80's. And there are still some very strong memories of that experience. It was like a light switch turning off. Literally things ground to a halt in a matter of a few weeks.

They can look at the lower return and stability of say a Fargo, vs the higher risk, and higher return of the patch. 2 different animals.

The only way you will ever see enough housing coming in the patch is the lure of high returns on investment.

Enact rent controls of any sort, and watch development come to a screeching halt.

Just as an FYI, I am not invested in the patch at this time. But have looked.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:23 PM
 
443 posts, read 697,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbay View Post
So if you were a developer and were looking at building units (apartments / houses / RV parks) in the oil patch. Would you be willing to do so if rents were say $1000 a unit, and would take 20 years to pay back? Would you risk millions of dollars on a one horse area? Would you be willing to risk your investment dollars and rents were say $2000 - $3000. My guess is most would not take the high risk of investing in the Bakken for "normal" returns. I can tell you as a real estate investor I wouldn't take the risk without the high return.

Way too many people lost their shirts in the 80's. And there are still some very strong memories of that experience. It was like a light switch turning off. Literally things ground to a halt in a matter of a few weeks.

They can look at the lower return and stability of say a Fargo, vs the higher risk, and higher return of the patch. 2 different animals.

The only way you will ever see enough housing coming in the patch is the lure of high returns on investment.

Enact rent controls of any sort, and watch development come to a screeching halt.

Just as an FYI, I am not invested in the patch at this time. But have looked.
Good post. This is smart money talking. He sees the money being made at the table but isn't willing to buy in. He wishes he would of when the game got started but recognizes that if he jumps in now, he's gonna get skinned.
The new investors and new job seekers are bigger gamblers than the folks that got this thing rolling and many of them are going to lose some hide.
If a person can't recognize the hucksterism in Harold Hamm (CEO Continental Resources) and the network news stories about the current "land of milk and honey", they're ripe for the picking.
This thing could go "poof" overnight.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:10 PM
 
741 posts, read 1,483,828 times
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Natural gas prices crashed in the US, but only because were not tied into the world market (we don't have the crogenic plants necessary to to liquify nat gas - only have the ability to convert liquid nat gas to gas). The rest of the world is seeing nat gas prices that are very high.

The point is, U.S. oil prices are tied into the world market because oil is easy to ship with tankers. With the growth of China and India and the voracious appetite in both countries for cars, what is going to cause oil to get under $60 to get Bakken drilling to drop way down? A world wide depression would do that. A miraculous new energy source would do that(cold fusion! ). Every major country finding massive reserves of shale oil might do that. (But so far, shale drilling in places like Mongolia, EastAfrica, Poland have been disappointing - the French have banned fracking even though there may be tons on oil in the Paris area, and France is staying the course with Nuclear energy, while the Germans are doing the opposite.)

If a world wide depression hits, we're all in trouble. Any of the others would take at least four years to implement.
The bottom line is that world oil consumption is groing, not decreasing. And many of the oilproducing countries are losing production: Mexico, Norway, Britan, Iran, Nigeria are all down. Saudi Arabia is widely believed to be overestimated its real reserves. The places that are seeing major increases are Canada, the US, Brazil, Angola.
Most projections have the price of oil going up long term, and there are many many more reasons (politics, wars) that oil could shoot up in price compared to the price dropping.

But even if oil drops, Williston will still have tons of jobs compared to what it had in 2006.
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