UND Fighting Sioux nickname is now retired

[Greg_IA]

Originally Posted by jmgg

If all the the Sioux Reservations in North Dakota would have come on board from the start, this wouldn't have happened. You don't see the Florida State Seminoles changing their mascot do you? No, I believe they became enthralled with the fact that they could hold this power over the university and could maybe hold them hostage and possibly make some big money.

Now, it appears there is some remorse on the reservations, but the damage is done. Way to go. Maybe there can start an effort to name the college the UND Whining Sioux.

When the story originally came out that the NCAA wouldn't allow native American names (or however it was stated), I read about it at work and immediately told someone next to me that UND would have to change the Fighting Sioux name but Florida State will still be the Seminoles.

[DaninEGF]

Originally Posted by Greg_IA

When the story originally came out that the NCAA wouldn't allow native American names (or however it was stated), I read about it at work and immediately told someone next to me that UND would have to change the Fighting Sioux name but Florida State will still be the Seminoles.

but why was that? The settlement agreements....FSU got it approved....UND did not. That is the reason. If anything UND could have settled for a more favorable settlement with NCAA....but it did not and had to get both tribes in ND approval whereas FSU had to just get the Seminole tribe in Florida approval, and not the one in Oklahoma.

[Naelbis]

Originally Posted by DaninEGF

but why was that? The settlement agreements....FSU got it approved....UND did not. That is the reason. If anything UND could have settled for a more favorable settlement with NCAA....but it did not and had to get both tribes in ND approval whereas FSU had to just get the Seminole tribe in Florida approval, and not the one in Oklahoma.

Standing Rock wasn't opposed to the nickname, they were opposed to UND not paying them obscene amounts of money to give new approval for it. The council refused to allow a vote (knowing that UND would win) because they felt UND would cave in and pay them to approve it (which didn't happen).

[Greg_IA]

Originally Posted by DaninEGF

but why was that? The settlement agreements....FSU got it approved....UND did not. That is the reason. If anything UND could have settled for a more favorable settlement with NCAA....but it did not and had to get both tribes in ND approval whereas FSU had to just get the Seminole tribe in Florida approval, and not the one in Oklahoma.

Why was this an issue with the NCAA at all?

Was it about not offending people? If so, money should have nothing to do with it.

or

Was it about paying for the right to use a name? Is Sioux a copyrighted name?


Why can Notre Dame use The Fightin' Irish? I have some Irish in me... I was not asked if I am offended, and no one came around offering me money.

[DaninEGF]

Originally Posted by Greg_IA

Why was this an issue with the NCAA at all?

Was it about not offending people? If so, money should have nothing to do with it.

or

Was it about paying for the right to use a name? Is Sioux a copyrighted name?


Why can Notre Dame use The Fightin' Irish? I have some Irish in me... I was not asked if I am offended, and no one came around offering me money.

I think most agree the NCAA is being hypocritical in its stance..... but that is the hand that UND was dealt with. They couldnt get agreement per the settlement that was made with the NCAA. The only possible win would be the Spirit Lake tribe vs NCAA litigation, but that that was thrown out in court, although Spirit Lake is appealing. Spirit Lake tribe is the one with the beef from the NCAA, UND being a member has to go along with NCAA rules, or be under sanctations. The real risk all along with the football and basketball programs. Hockey could survive under the sanctions as the NCAA hockey regionals and frozen four are held at larger venues than the Ralph nowadays.

So the main issue is did UND settle for a fair settlement with the NCAA back in 07. That can be debated forever....but the this is the hand that UND was dealt with and for the betterment of all athletic departments and the school as a whole, dropping the nickname was the right thing to do. I was surprised in a good way how a large majority of the state supported dropping the name in the recent election. There was some worry about the western part of the state not understanding the situation as well.

Anyway, UND can finally move forward. There still is a petition out there to put to a vote a constiutional amendment to make UND officially the Sioux. But with the June 12th vote being so much for the YES to retire, the bubble was burst for that.

[Greg_IA]

Originally Posted by DaninEGF

I think most agree the NCAA is being hypocritical in its stance..... but that is the hand that UND was dealt with. They couldnt get agreement per the settlement that was made with the NCAA. The only possible win would be the Spirit Lake tribe vs NCAA litigation, but that that was thrown out in court, although Spirit Lake is appealing. Spirit Lake tribe is the one with the beef from the NCAA, UND being a member has to go along with NCAA rules, or be under sanctations. The real risk all along with the football and basketball programs. Hockey could survive under the sanctions as the NCAA hockey regionals and frozen four are held at larger venues than the Ralph nowadays.

So the main issue is did UND settle for a fair settlement with the NCAA back in 07. That can be debated forever....but the this is the hand that UND was dealt with and for the betterment of all athletic departments and the school as a whole, dropping the nickname was the right thing to do. I was surprised in a good way how a large majority of the state supported dropping the name in the recent election. There was some worry about the western part of the state not understanding the situation as well.

Anyway, UND can finally move forward. There still is a petition out there to put to a vote a constiutional amendment to make UND officially the Sioux. But with the June 12th vote being so much for the YES to retire, the bubble was burst for that.

yup.

[nebulous1]

Thought a sports team being named for a group thought of as strong and fearless was a compliment. Cleveland went through this with the Cleveland Indians.

A lot of high schools name their teams after Bobcats, Wildcats, Hawks, Jaguars, Lions, Eagles, you name it.

So if they are insulted having a team named after them, not PC enough, the school should take the name away, be done with that, and name the team after a native animal that is strong and formidable.

Things are so bad that people can't see when they are being complimented. No one ever thought a team was named after something weak.

[jmgg]

Originally Posted by nebulous1

Thought a sports team being named for a group thought of as strong and fearless was a compliment. Cleveland went through this with the Cleveland Indians.

A lot of high schools name their teams after Bobcats, Wildcats, Hawks, Jaguars, Lions, Eagles, you name it.

So if they are insulted having a team named after them, not PC enough, the school should take the name away, be done with that, and name the team after a native animal that is strong and formidable.

Things are so bad that people can't see when they are being complimented. No one ever thought a team was named after something weak.

Like a Flickertail

[Ghengis]

so there was an agreement in place specifying the criteria as to what conditions UND would be able to retain the use of the Sioux reference and those conditions were not meant. Now a handful of people get their undies in a bunch and want to disavow the pre-arranged agreement without regard to the result of that agreement. Yep, seems about par for the course in these matters.