Winter commute from Park River to Grand Forks, nd? (Minot: for sale, real estate)

[la0508]

We are looking to move to North Dakota, near the Grand Forks area. The only homes I see that we can really afford are outside of Grand Forks metropolitan area--you get so much for your money in the more rural areas. Right now I am considering Park River, in Walsh county near Grafton. This is probably a 40-50 mile distance from Grand Forks, to the north and slightly west. Would my kids be able to commute to Grand Forks to attend the University during the winter? (They have applied to school there). Where would you have to live to be sure to get to school in the winter, and how does it really work with the weather, as far as cars, public transportation, etc? What if we lived in, say, Crookston, MN, where there is bus service direct to UND daily? What happens in a storm, as far as getting where you have to go? I assume life carries on as usual in -35 degree weather, when it is not blizzarding? Somebody please clue me in. Thanks.

[DaninEGF]

Hi there

I would like to help you out...I am a meteorologist in Grand Forks, ND and have been here sine 1998. So pretty familar about winter driving in and outside of town.

Well...from Park River....your kids will be able to make it in the winter...granted not at summer time speeds...as many roads contain at least icy patches all winter long as most winters the temperatures just dont get warm enough to melt the ice off completely from mid Dec to late Feb. North Dakota uses sand or a mix of sand/salt on roads and do a good job, but they dont plow them bare. They make them passable. Now there will be days when the wind blows and snow comes, and the wind in combination with the snow on the ground can create ground blizzards and these are fairly common at least a few times a winter. In town it is fine...but outside of town visibility can be bad. If it is snowing when the wind blows, then vsby can be really really bad.

But majority of our problems is with wind picking up the snow in the ground and blowing it around. Now...most of our big cold winds in the winter are northerly in direction and thus north to south winds (like I-29) dont get too many drifts on them except near overpasses where the snow can collect. Thus unless the wind is 35+ mph vsby is good enough to drive. Now Highway 17 from the interstate to Grafton and then to Park River can be a different story as the stretch from the interstate to Grafton is flat and open and a north winds can cause a lot of havoc. It will take a lot for the DOT to close the interstate...they do have gates at the north and south exists off of I-29 from Grand Forks to prevent people to get on the interstate in extreme cases...for I-29 usually once a year (or in some winters it is never that bad). I say the above not to stress you out, but be aware that in the winter your kids will have to learn to take it easy and know they cant drive at 60-70 mph.

As far as Crookston....it is a nice town...but travelling back and forth to Grand Forks along that east-west stretch of Highway 2 can be a challenge and that is often one of the first roads to close in a big blowing snow event as there is nothing but open land between Crookston and East Grand Forks.

So...best advice is for your kids to get to know some friends who live in town and prepare some way for them to stay with them if the weather turns bad. In town and out town visibility can be greatly different. Also be sure to carry a winter survival kit with you... Have you guys driven in snow before?? Could not tell where your from. If you have, then that wiill make the transition much easier.

Dan

I forgot to mention, there is no public transportation outside of Grand Forks between towns....so personal vehicle will be necessary. Have you looked at the towns of Larimore...Manvel, Northwood, or Thompson. Granted in small towns the choices are always less just due to fewer homes available. But I would check on these towns too....the closer you can get the better. Also, Grafton is the county seat of Walsh county has is a nice town...not exactly growing by leaps and bounds, but it is nice and quiet and at least would cut down on the drive some.

Of those...Thompson would be the easiest to get to GF from....but again it may be too expensive for you. Prices have gone up over the years.

[la0508]

Thanks--that clarifies things a lot. Although I was born and primarily lived in California (currently in the High Desert region of southern cal), I lived for a time in the Swiss Alps, and my husband has lived and worked in International Falls, MN. My kids and I will be coming to see UND and to house search sometime this winter, after we sell our S. Cal home--probably not earlier than late December. We will drive from So Cal--what do you recommend that we include in our emergency packs for the car? I'm assuming sub-zero sleeping bags, just in case--flares, water, water heater, food, good chains, of course. What kind of tires do N. Dakotans use? Thank you so much for your help.

[DaninEGF]

Hi again

Travelling in winter up here it sounded like....Just keep posted on the weather and dont rush. The Rockies will probably be the worst for you with all the mountains, etc. I would think a basic winter kit would include as you mentioned, sleeping bag, non perishable food, candle, matches, extra coat, hat, gloves, boots, and be sure to have a cell phone. Chains are not really needed in the Plains and up here, as the snow on the roads does not get to a great depth usually and up here it just blows around...mainly ending up in tree shelter belts and around buildings while open areas have just a few inches.

I use all season tires on my CR-V and most SUV and car folks do the same and dont bother switching tires. Now I do know some folks at work that live away from towns and have to travel on non regularly maintained roads and they do use snow tires and studded snow tires are permissable. But for ordinary driving, even between home and UND and back a separate set of snow tires I dont think are needed, as long as you have good regular ones.

I must ask...why UND? From California that is a big move. Did the aviation program draw them, as the flight instructor and traffic control program here is really good. And...why buy....could you rent an apartment or house in town. If you are looking for a more permanent move, then buying is fine, but if it is just a few years, you might want to consider renting. There are a large number of new complex that opened up and there are some rental homes and duplexes too. Whatever you do, try to find something with a garage, if possible and something with an outside outlet so you can plug your engine into at night. I got a car heater (plug) installed (about 70-80.00) in mine as my vehicle is parked overnight outside at work and while not completely necessary it sure helps the engine. Engines can be tough to turn over below about -15F.

If looking for places, you may have already searched the web for realty sites and such. If you need any info on this, let me know and I can e-mail some sites...

If your husband has lived in International Falls then he is used to the cold. It is often colder there, especially at night, but we get more wind they they do.

There is a web camera a top one of the building at UND and it overlooks DeMers Ave. Here is the link.... http://www.rwic.und.edu/webcam/

If I can be of help let me know....

Oh by the way....you live in the High Desert...what area. I love geography and learning about other areas of the country. I do look at the SB sun on occasion on the web and also have read about Lancaster and Palmdale in the Antelope Valley...

Dan

[la0508]

Hi-I have wanted to move to the northern plains for quite some time. This summer my husband and I went for a blitz road trip, through Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa, Minn, and Wisconsin, and I really fell in love with Wisconsin, especially northern wisconsin around the Duluth area. So we came home, put our home on the market, and my 2 youngest kids started searching for schools. My youngest son is a budding chemical engineer, and so he chose UND, because of the cost, partly, because of the adventure, because of the aviation aspect, which is a draw, too, but mostly the chem engin. courses. My daughter, who has spent 2 years at UC Berkeley, is a talented artist. I understand UND has an excellent practice of art department. Aside from their pottery & ceramics, have you heard anything about the department? My 3 older children are a bit more settled where they are, the 4th, my daughter at Berkeley, is really tired of it there. Beautiful town, but a little too much in your face. Both she and David the youngest, would adapt quite nicely to N. Dakota, I suspect, and N. Dakota to them as well. If we tour it in Dec-Jan, I hope they will not be blown away by the cold.
As far as my husband and I are concerned, we are ready to go. We live in Lucerne Valley, a tiny unincorporated town in the high desert area of SoCal. It lies about 20 miles to the east off the Interstate 15, between Victorville and Barstow. I have spoken with Minnesotans who have traveled up the 15 to Las Vegas, and they have uniformly been horrified at the area, but I think it is beautiful--if you like Mars! Actually, outside of the "urban" areas of Victorville, Hesperia, Apple Valley, you reach an expanse of desert that is amazingly strange, beautiful, and isolated. And it even snows sometimes! The wind whistles, and you can feel very close to nature out there. We live in the foothills of the San Bernardino mountains on the east side, and from our little home can see all of the high desert (more or less) at night. Very beautiful. And-in contrast to other California properties--we bought our lot 2 yrs ago for $15K for approx. 2/3 acre. And a beautiful view lot it is. So if you are interested in geography you really should see this--it's like no other area on earth (except another high desert, I guess), we have Joshua trees, terrific rock hunting--amethysts, opals, gold, crystals, turquoise--and lots of interesting animals including the mojave green rattler (who I almost stepped on once). Yes, I love this house and area, but it too is getting crowded, and I hate the heat in the summer. Can't leave the house from June-October. I'm looking to make North Dakota a permanent home.

[DaninEGF]

Thanks so much for sharing that info. I grew up in western Kentucky and since a little kid I always knew I loved weather and forecasting. I also loved winter (what little we had) and disliked the summer heat and humidity. I also love the openness of the prairie and dislike the forest. Quite the opposite of most people.

My goal was always to move way up north, first it was central Canada, then after college I settled on someday moving up to the Dakotas and Minnesota. After moving up the career ladder, I got my senior met job at the NWS Grand Forks office back in 1998.

You may or may not be aware..but Grand Forks is coming up on the 10 year anniversary of the flood of 97. The Red River valley commonly floods in the Spring, but in 97 combination of record snowfall and just the worst melt cycle lead to rapid runoff which pushed the river to levels never seen before from Wahpeton ND to Winnipeg. The Red River flows north from where it begins south of Wahpeton ND to Winnipeg where it empties into Lake Winnipeg and then eventually Hudson Bay. Both East Grand Forks and Grand Forks suffered terribly in particular. River rose and flooded both sides of ther river never flood before, and also the power was cutoff so people sump pumps stopped working and water backed up into their basements. Net result was over a billion of dollars of damage and the worst flood disaster in the U.S. history (I suppose recently eclipsed by New Orleans...although that was hurricane-storm surge induced). What happened, is that the Corps of Engineers came in designed a levee system built on both sides of the river to protect both towns to a river height of 60 feet (In 1997 it was 54.3 ft). Also many many homes that were destroyed and too close to the river were torn down and now the levee system almost complete we have a beautiful greenway system with bike trails, etc along the river. So now when it floods it does not affect anything but trees and grass and not homes.

Of course Grand Forks area is nothing like northern Wisconsin you visited. The tree line runs roughly through western into southern Minnesota near a Roseau to Fosston to Fergus Falls to St Cloud to Rochester line with more trees east of there and pretty much open prairie with clumps of trees west of there into eastern North Dakota. Very flat in the valley....the levee system did do one thing nice too in that there is now a sledding hill. Other than that no natural hills in the immediate area. The valley itself is about 40 miles wide.

I dont know anything about UND art program. My wife got her master in Social work at UND...I graduated from Iowa State.

What price range are you guys looking at for homes? Greenberg Realty and Crary Real Estate are the big names in our area check the greenberg realty site to look at mls listings for small towns surrounding our area. I dont know if the moderators would allow mention of these companies names or not, so if they are blank that is why.

Welcome to the area....great to see someone who wants to come up north. Winnipeg is 3 hours away and a great city to visit. Twin Cities is 5-6 hours away.

Dan

[tkx7]

Dan, are you a local news channel meteorologist? If I lived in the Grand Forks area, I would be sure to tune into your segment.

[DaninEGF]

Originally Posted by tkx7

Dan, are you a local news channel meteorologist? If I lived in the Grand Forks area, I would be sure to tune into your segment.

Nope, I work the federal government National Weather Service out on University Drive just past I-29. I have been on TV before like the other folks there from time to time when tv stations come out for quick news stories...but that's it. That is fine by me and TV weather is not my thing. I would rather sit by the radar and issue those warnings, etc. We do lots of other things beside that too, but issuing warnings for severe summer and winter weather is the main reason why the NWS was created back many years ago.

[la0508]

hi--it took me a week to get back and check any messages. Thank you very much for your wonderful replies. Yes--I am very aware of the red river flood in the grand forks area, and of the renovated downtown area with all the bike trails. What an ordeal. I am very impressed with the recovery North Dakotans made, with so little fanfare. We should all take note of that. Yes-I know about both realty offices, and have perused everything they have. We are offering our own home for $150k, which is technically way underpriced for our area, but, since there are literally thousands of homes for sale in the high desert, it is hard to get noticed, which is why we offered it for 40-50k below appraised value. Still, it is slow going. Since it is free and clear, we should have enough to get something very reasonable, however, we don't want to spend but a bit of it. I noticed a very nice little home in Park River for $28k, and some lovely ones in the Minot area (specifically, Upham) for $20-40K that look pretty and sturdy. We are nearing retirement, and with raising 5 kids it has been very difficult to create a retirement nest egg, so we need our home to be simple and inexpensive.
I do have another question--which perhaps I should ask through a separate thread--but-are there ticks and fleas in North Dakota? (Do you have a dog? You'll know for sure if you have a dog.) One of the great things about the high desert is there are no ticks or fleas, or practically any other kind of bug except the odd scorpion. And ants. I'm sure there must be mosquitoes near the rivers and lakes, but in general are you bothered by them? I was hoping the paucity of trees would discourage bugs. We don't have to get flea collars or worry about heartworm, and you are never bit by anything unless you step on a red ant nest (not infrequent) or a rattler (not so frequent, thank goodness, unless you live in the mountains here, where there can be as many of them as there are nightcrawlers after a heavy rain). Anyway, you are very informative and I really appreciate it.

[la0508]

Oh-by the way-what would cause you to read the San Bernardino Sun? And what have you heard about Palmdale & Lancaster? My husband was born and raised in Tennessee, near the Kentucky border. He too dislikes the summer heat and humidity. We both think Kentucky is beautiful (but I don't think it is near cold enough).