Are the plains dying? (Fargo, Bismarck: crime, public schools, university)

[StartingOverAgain]

Originally Posted by roundball

OK, maybe using "way" in bold was a little over the top.

I'm of course not comparing the whole metro area where I live now. If I was to include Maryville and some other parts of town my comparison wouldn't look to good. I'm just comparing my little 4x5 mile area (Arrowhead)that we don't stray from to often.


Back on topic: So the oil boom is great for the state. Is it hurting the Red River Valley? Do a a lot of the rural kids who in the past went to Fargo/GF for work/university, now go out to the oil fields? Is it maybe to early to tell?

Are you stirring the pot simply to stir the pot? Your posts seem somewhat like a back-handed compliment -- designed specifically to tick people off, but with the ability to deny that you had any intention to offend.

If not, I stand corrected and apologize for doubting you intentions.

[mackinac81]

In my opinion, there are people out there that want a place to live and raise their families that has proper respect for God/Jesus/Religion, low crime, good schools, proper moral standards, a good sense of community, and a good share of neighborliness.
ND and the plains states have this in much higher proportion than other states.

davednorris,

Sounds a lot like West Michigan, where I live. I love it.

Yeah, that's the impression I always got of the great plains area, and I'm glad that such communities could still survive. the death of the American small town, in my view, is a national tragedy.

Here's another (probably dumb) question: Are some depopulated areas reverting back to wild prairie, or is agribusiness still growing crops on that land?

[FargoBison]

Originally Posted by roundball

OK, maybe using "way" in bold was a little over the top.

I'm of course not comparing the whole metro area where I live now. If I was to include Maryville and some other parts of town my comparison wouldn't look to good. I'm just comparing my little 4x5 mile area (Arrowhead)that we don't stray from to often.


Back on topic: So the oil boom is great for the state. Is it hurting the Red River Valley? Do a a lot of the rural kids who in the past went to Fargo/GF for work/university, now go out to the oil fields? Is it maybe to early to tell?

NDSU is seeing record enrollment, the school recently projected enrollment could hit 16k in the next decade. That said, the bulk of NDSUs enrollment growth is coming from MN and with international students and the oil fields are a long ways off for those kids.

I also doubt kids are going to work the oil fields if they have college aspirations, that said I'm sure the oil fields look attractive to those who don't plan on going to college.

[Dan Castello]

It is a different demographic looking to go to college versus the oil field workers. Different group of kids. However, the oil boom will grow some of the western towns to a point where those towns will become large and diversified enough to attract businesses and industries which will provide white collar services to well-paid blue collar workers. The people filling those jobs will be college grads.

[Old Surrender]

I left Yuma, Ariz., for a better-paying job in Fargo and I'm loving every minute of it. Only thing I miss about that state are drunken romps in Mexican border towns. I love my job, my new friends and my wife and I could afford a house here on our salaries.

[Roloff1976]

I think many people get tired of trying to defend the plains...with so many articles and east coast professors (the Potters) declaring the end of middle America. They pretend to understand us, but they do not. North Dakota has sat idle for many many decades. To be honest, we are a rural, agricultural state. With pockets of high tech, oil, tourism, service, medical...but when it all comes down to it...we are a farming state. Nothing wrong with this. The reason we don't flourish with population growth, is because it does not take the numbers of farmers to run the farms this day and age as it did even 20years ago. When the farmer went to the nearest BIG town for their weekly-monthly supplies...it was a big deal. Now days, those same farmers live in the BIG towns, and drive out to their farms on a daily basis to take care of the cattle, harvest, etc... Some stay on the farms, but many live in the nearest BIG town for conveniences, etc... commuting 20 miles is not the same as it was when our grand parents and great grand parents ran the farms. The Williston area is booming right now because of the current oil prices, and the Bakken play in the Williston Basin...but again...this could end in a heart beat if the Middle East decides flood the market with cheap oil. (but not likely to happen with the huge demand for oil from booming economies like China and India)...so I see only good positive things happening for ND population wise for at least a couple decades. This boom will benefit all areas of this country. More people...more money to spend in stores and towns in the region...from downtown Williston...to Bismarck, Billings, Fargo...and even Mall of America...if they have the money to spend...they will spend it.
As far as dying...I think you will find in the 2010 national census, that ND will actually be a population gainer...but MICHIGAN will be one of the big losers. Many Michigan people have moved to the Williston area...and if you've driven around Gillette, WY lately...MICHIGAN plates everywhere. Just my own personal observation and opinion.
But am by no means bashing or being negative about Michigan (it is a beautiful state...especially the UP around Marquette) ...I just know that they have closed lots of factories, and unemployement is very high there...vs. ND where unemployed is very low...and the state has a surplus of 1billion dollars...one of only a few states that have a surplus. (others are states in the energy industry like Wyoming, Montana and Alaska).

[vnodak]

Originally Posted by roundball

Yes.

Yes.

Nothing substantial.



Did I like ND? Not really.
Do I miss it? Not really. I only miss being close to my family members still in state.
Do I plan to move back? Never! I wouldn't mind having a lake front property somewhere around the Twin Cities in the distant future.

Both my wife and I graduated from the University of North Dakota a few years back. I have my Bachelors and she has a Doctorate. We both make over twice here what we could of made back there. Some people say the cost of living is cheaper, the schools are better and its safer blah, blah, blah.


The truth is housing cost more, the schools aren't as good, and the crime is way worse.

Fortunately our income is so much higher down here we can afford a house in a very nice neighborhood where the crime rates are way less then Grand Forks ,we can afford to send our four kids to private schools which are way better (I don't think its necessary since the public schools are good in our neighborhood), and we still come out ahead financially.

I hate to trash ND........... Then again, I can only call it like I see it.

You are joking right??? Cost of living is way cheaper in ND---crime is not way worse(check city data) and the schools are good. If the schools are so great where you are, then why do you need to send your kids to private ones??? Check city-data for stats--------if it is so great there, do ya think people would choose 30 below zero weather. Is it not Arizona where people flock in the winter?? Come on, be real and honest. It is okay to not like ND and I am glad you love where you are at but be honest.

[FargoBison]

I don't think the plains are dying but instead they have finally stabilized. ND's population has actually increased over the past few years and cities like Fargo and Bismarck are doing quite well for themselves. There is a lot of potential in the Plains, and some of the potential is finally starting to be realized.

[davednorris]

Originally Posted by vnodak

You are joking right??? Cost of living is way cheaper in ND---crime is not way worse(check city data) and the schools are good. If the schools are so great where you are, then why do you need to send your kids to private ones??? Check city-data for stats--------if it is so great there, do ya think people would choose 30 below zero weather. Is it not Arizona where people flock in the winter?? Come on, be real and honest. It is okay to not like ND and I am glad you love where you are at but be honest.

Hi Vndak,

I think roundball was saying "The truth is housing cost more, the schools aren't as good, and the crime is way worse." that these things are worse in the city he lives in now, not in ND. They just make enough in salary that they can compensate for these bad things, by affording to live in a safe neighbor hood and paying the tuition to put their children in private/better schools. Don't mean to speak for you roundball, please forgive me if I'm wrong on this.

Dave N.
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[dutchinnd]

Mackinac81--
Welcome to the ND Forum! As a GR native, I tend to lurk in the Michigan forum for fun.
Is ND losing population? Yes and no. The rural areas certainly are. ND is now an urban state--the majority of the population lives in cities. The growth of the Fargo-Moorhead and Bismarck-Mandan over the last 15 years has come as a result of draining the small towns dry. The question is what happens next. For many years, the larger cities in ND (Fargo, Grand Forks, Bismarck and Minot) have functioned as regional service centers. But what happens when there is no one left in the region to be of service to?
For the west side of the state, energy resources may well supply the needed industry and jobs to keep the region going well. Given the scale of agricultural operations (as outlined in earlier responses), the Red River Valley has got to look beyond ag as a reason for existence.
There are efforts out there to reverse the population losses or keep them to a minimum. The Greater Fargo-Moorhead Economic Development Corporation has a sales tax measure on our June ballot that would go toward funding high-tech programs in the local universities, among other things, in order to create a workforce that will be attractive to high tech companies. I'm not at all sure at how that measure will play out--it's a complex issue and process and not easily captured in a sound bite.