Are the plains dying? (Fargo, Grand Forks: mortgage, agriculture, budget)

[mackinac81]

Hi! I usually hang out in the Michigan forum, but I drifted over here for fun.

I recently read (from the census bureau) that 36 out of North Dakota's 53 counties have been designated as frontier (less than 6/sq mi) because of depopulation. This apparently hasn't just affected ND but the other plains states too.

My question: Are you in ND worried about losing people? Are the great plains dying? Is anything being done to encourage people to move to ND?

Just curious

[davednorris]

Hi,

I have a concern about this and it's this: With all the emphasis on attracting people to the states in the Northern Tier, I'm afraid that quality might be ignored/overlooked in tha mad rush for quantity. (I get the sense that it's "Get all the people we can to move here. I don't care what kind of people, just get them here". I'd much rather have a smaller population of decent folks than a large population with a higher percentage of "trouble makers" (add in your own choice of words here).

Dave N.
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[roundball]

Originally Posted by mackinac81

My question: Are you in ND worried about losing people? Are the great plains dying? Is anything being done to encourage people to move to ND?

Yes.

Yes.

Nothing substantial.



Did I like ND? Not really.
Do I miss it? Not really. I only miss being close to my family members still in state.
Do I plan to move back? Never! I wouldn't mind having a lake front property somewhere around the Twin Cities in the distant future.

Both my wife and I graduated from the University of North Dakota a few years back. I have my Bachelors and she has a Doctorate. We both make over twice here what we could of made back there. Some people say the cost of living is cheaper, the schools are better and its safer blah, blah, blah.


The truth is housing cost more, the schools aren't as good, and the crime is way worse.

Fortunately our income is so much higher down here we can afford a house in a very nice neighborhood where the crime rates are way less then Grand Forks ,we can afford to send our four kids to private schools which are way better (I don't think its necessary since the public schools are good in our neighborhood), and we still come out ahead financially.

I hate to trash ND........... Then again, I can only call it like I see it.

[berlinassociates]

I live in Gilbert east of Phoenix. I am not sure that Roundball lives in the same dimensional plain as the rest of us. Or he does not read the paper or watch the news that every night has a murder rape kidnapping holdup car jacking or two or three. AZ has the 5th highest crime rate in the nation. ND is 3rd safest.

Phoenix and Maricopa County have 41,000 felon warrants outstanding and sheriff that thinks the sun rises and sets on him, is doing nothing about it except pass the buck.

Phoenix's traffic is the worse that I have ever seen. (I have lived in Los Angeles, San Diego, Riverside and Sacramento Areas.)The majority of drivers are just plain bad. I have seen more cars upside down here then anywhere else that I have lived.

The cost of housing is not as bad as some of the other places I have lived but it is still high. 100,000 still buy you a dump in a bad part of town of which there are many.

How many shopping centers do you need?

The weather is hot in summer. All people do is go from their air-conditioned house to the air-conditioned car to the air-conditioned work or shopping center. When it is cold you can always add another layer but when it is hot...well naked is as far as you can go.

I for one am moving back to North Dakota because it has a smaller population. I can buy a house cash out and never have a mortgage again. It has a far lower crime rate. The town I am moving to has had 8 crimes such as murder, rape etc in the last ten years and five of those happen in one year.

It is true that I will not earn as much there as here but I will not have as many expences as I do here either.

All areas of the country have good points and bad points. I believe that the good points of ND far out strip the bad points.

[DaninEGF]

Originally Posted by roundball

Yes.

The truth is housing cost more, the schools aren't as good, and the crime is way worse.

Fortunately our income is so much higher down here we can afford a house in a very nice neighborhood where the crime rates are way less then Grand Forks ,we can afford to send our four kids to private schools which are way better (I don't think its necessary since the public schools are good in our neighborhood), and we still come out ahead financially.

I hate to trash ND........... Then again, I can only call it like I see it.

This crime rate is way less than Grand Forks....I am dying to know what are you comparing. I have lived in the area for 9 years and would love to know where all the crime is here. I must have lived and driven through all the good parts Now granted I once lived in an upscale Detroit suburb (Northville) which was pretty much all upscale housing and little industry and thus was pretty much the same in terms of people living there i.e. upper middle class to wealthy. Thus all crime stats were very very low. Comparing a place like that suburb to Grand Forks which has people from the poor to the rich and industry and no suburb is not a good comparison. I am just gald there are no gangs here like other areas and you can travel all around the area without much worry.

But I am glad you found more opportunties down there as there would be in a big metro area. You will make more money there than here...but that is true of any small town when compared to a metro area due to more competition for your skills in a larger pop area. I am glad you like the heat...I would be the opposite I dont like it above 75F and cant wait til winter comes again

Dan

[mackinac81]

(I get the sense that it's "Get all the people we can to move here. I don't care what kind of people, just get them here".
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Oh no, I'm not advocating that! I actually like small towns. But it seems there's a tipping point where if the population dips below a certain threshold, then the economy is in danger of collapsing. And from what I've heard it seems that ND and the rest of the plains states are at risk.

Are there any other ND natives that can shed further light on this issue? I only had one post that tried to answer my original question.

Thanks!
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[DaninEGF]

Originally Posted by mackinac81

(I get the sense that it's "Get all the people we can to move here. I don't care what kind of people, just get them here".
<><

Oh no, I'm not advocating that! I actually like small towns. But it seems there's a tipping point where if the population dips below a certain threshold, then the economy is in danger of collapsing. And from what I've heard it seems that ND and the rest of the plains states are at risk.

Are there any other ND natives that can shed further light on this issue? I only had one post that tried to answer my original question.

Thanks!
<><

Here is my take on the situation in the plains and you can include areas east into parts of Minnesota/Iowa...the traditional farming areas. For the most part things have stabilized I believe...the small time family farms are now pretty much gone and the destruction of the family small farm from the 1980s and into the 1990s was the main catalyst which set the depopulation trend in motion. To survive nowadays in farming you have to be big....but I do believe that most that are still farming today are the successful ones who did transition and who bought land and deversified their crops. Most rural towns lost quite a bit of population in the last 20-30 years as people stopped farming and either moved elsewhere or moved to the larger cities in the Plains. Most cities in Plains states have and are seeing growth. The problem right now is the fact that families are now having much fewer children. That means many fewer school kids for rural schools and more consolidation of rural school systems.

At the present time....the economy in ND is very much alive and booming with record surplus's at the state level in terms of budget and money. Most of this is due to the recent oil and gas boom in western ND....but some of this is also due to recent good crop years and to recent high prices for crops. Expenses to get good crops have risen just as fast too...so not all farmers are making out big.

Going back to your question....I see the cities of the Plains taking the lead and continuing to attract rural kids....but I think the worst of the depopulation trend is behind us. We will have to see how the ethanol and oil/gas boom plays out...but right now it is providing some huge benefits for the area.

Dan

[Chris19]

I see potential with ND and SD along with other Plains states with alternative energy (wind, fuel cell, ethanol, etc.) and possible big oil finds as the nation will need to find the energy sources to power our vehicles, homes, business, and agriculture. With ingenuity, research, persistence, and greater efficiency over time, the overlooked resources of the Plains states can help our nation out and usher it into a new golden age.

Very good points DarinEGF. There are positive things happening in this part of the country and we as a people need to push for additional progress. Optimism and the ability to turn vision into reality for energy sources will really help.

[davednorris]

Hi Mackinak81,

When I said "I get the sense that it's "Get all the people we can to move here. I don't care what kind of people, just get them here" I didn't mean I got that sense from your entry. I just get that sense from what I see in the media and other sources. I was generalizing I guess.

Your question:
"My question: Are you in ND worried about losing people? Are the great plains dying? Is anything being done to encourage people to move to ND?"

No I'm not worried about losing people in ND. I think that even though the population might decline (discounting the oil boom), there will continue to be enough people that want to stay in ND or move to ND to keep it alive. Some more of the smaller ND towns may die, having lost their people to larger ND towns.
I think the same thing for the great plains also. While the great plains may loose some population, I think there will be enough people that want to live there to keep it viable. It may change, but not go away.
I think there are some things being done to draw people to ND and the plains states. I don't know what they are though. The town and state Chambers of Commerce might be better able to answer that one.

In my opinion, there are people out there that want a place to live and raise their families that has proper respect for God/Jesus/Religion, low crime, good schools, proper moral standards, a good sense of community, and a good share of neighborliness.
ND and the plains states have this in much higher proportion than other states. Did I just not hear that California Judges overruled the will of the people there and have cleared the way for same sex marriage in Calif? I guess next they eliminate the age restriction on drinking because it discriminates based on age! Or separate public bathrooms because it discriminates based on gender . The gang problems and crime in larger cities is well known.


Dave N.
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[roundball]

OK, maybe using "way" in bold was a little over the top.

I'm of course not comparing the whole metro area where I live now. If I was to include Maryville and some other parts of town my comparison wouldn't look to good. I'm just comparing my little 4x5 mile area (Arrowhead)that we don't stray from to often.


Back on topic: So the oil boom is great for the state. Is it hurting the Red River Valley? Do a a lot of the rural kids who in the past went to Fargo/GF for work/university, now go out to the oil fields? Is it maybe to early to tell?