Would you ever move back to ND ? (Fargo, Bismarck: houses, neighborhoods)

[thomjoe]

I left my hometown of Fargo in 1983 and moved to Minneapolis. I moved for the same reasons that probably exist today : opportunity and diversity. I certainly didn't move to MSP for the weather, though it is much milder than ND. There have been studies done on this issue before, but, " What would it take for you to move back to ND?"

[ebitdadada]

Um I'd need someone to offer me a good job with a future and that'd be about it. Luckily this seems to be getting much more plausible as Bismarck & Fargo seem to be doing quite well as of late. There really seems to be alot of great stuff happening with alternative energy etc. and every time I go back I'm amazed at all the new things.

I'm currently 23 and work for a fortune 500. I'm thinking I'll get an energy MBA in a few years and hopefully moving back. Don't get me wrong, I really like the rest of the country and am having a great time on the east coast but NDs isn't a bad place either.

Things they could do to improve ND:

1. Make Bismarck State College a 4 year school already (or better an 8 year one). Bismarck-Mandan already has about a sixth of the states population and its the fastest growing area in the state. It also happens to be, climatically & natural scenery wise, by far the most habitable. I know I'll be unpopular for saying it but sending kids to school anywhere other than Bismarck or Fargo is pretty much asking them to leave. If they're really serious about out-migration they should stop sending kids to college in places where they have no chance at a decent post-college job or internships where they can find a company they're willing to stay for.

2. Extend the time bars can stay open in Bismarck. 1AM? Are you kidding me? Sorry, I know its a shame, but unfortunately young people's biological clocks work differently than the rest of society and don't like to go home at one. All in all, its a civic embarrassment, something I try to hide when talking to non NDers. I know we're not Utah but stuff like this can make others wonder. I know Fargo is 2am but being I don't really see myself moving there, it really doesn't do much for me. Put up roadblocks to keep idiots from drinking and driving if you have to but please don't make me go home at 1.

3. Um other than building a magical worm-hole between Bismarck, Fargo & GF, that's all i can think of that the state govt could really do. Better air service would be nice but aside from wasteful subsidies or semi-unethical demands from our senators, there isn't a whole lot we can do about it.

[thomjoe]

ebitdadada-

You nailed it ! I feel the same about so many things you mentioned. We come from a great state, and it is sad about the "out-migration" of our most talented residents. This has always made me wonder...."Why not come back ?" You are a prime example of so many. Two of my nieces are in their 20's, with nursing degrees, and where are they moving to ? Minneapolis/St. Paul. They can make 2 or 3x the pay they would make in ND. Where do we go next ? I love ND, but the exodus of our greatest assets is obvious.

[arvid1985]

It would not take much for me to move back. I took my opportunity to move away in 97 when i got flooded in GF. The opportunity mostly to experience big city life. I got it! I am tired of the "Minnesota nice". i have owned my house for 9 and haven't met all of my neighbors!. Too busy, nobody has time, traffic! I would be kinda scary though, i would have to accept a 30k paycut

[BorderGirl]

I went to college in Grand Forks and lately I've been finding myself missing it in a big way. I loved the activities provided through the college and if I got really bored I could always drive down to Fargo for the day. Unfortunately I had to move all the way to Utah to get the kind of job I wanted but I always keep GF in the back of my mind, hoping to go back there someday.

[jlunski]

I have been away from Grand Forks for just under 10 years, moved to Minneapolis because computer jobs were in short supply in GF. Moved to Sioux Falls, SD back in 1999 and like it but would like to be back in GF or Fargo to be closer to family since we have a child, would like him to be able to see grandpa and grandma more often. Every time I go back to GF I get a little home sick but hey I spent my first 25 years of life there.

[thomjoe]

I used to get back to Fargo more often when my Mom was alive, and we would really enjoy going to Mexican Village (yes, fake Mexican, but part of my growing up in the FM ! and the sauce still rocks my world). And it is still there ! There are so many authentic MX places around here in MSP, but I still miss that place on Main Ave. Does anyone remember the grinders at Peppers in Grand Forks ? My cousin used to bring those down to me in MSP in the 80s. They were awesome. What great "joints" do you remember ?

[MattDen]

Sorry, I meant North Dakota quality of life is decent

I always like how people from North Dakota think that when North Dakotans move from their state they are losing their most valuable assets the people in their 20s. I dont think people in North Dakota are any more intelligent then anywhere else. Obviously, North Dakota has a very small homegrown business base compared to other states with the exception of agriculture, so I guess North Dakotans products they send out arent as needed as say those from Ohio or my hometown of Denver. And the value-added (inputs-outputs) to products sent outside of the state is not nearly as high as South Dakota even.

I lived in North Dakota from 2004-2006. I have lived in Colorado (from Denver), Ohio and Nebraska.

The quality of life in Fargo is decent. I thought the selection of restaurants was good and the places to eat were good also. The coffee houses were decent and the place was clean.

However, Fargo decent quality of life doesnt justify the arrogance of North Dakotans. I found the people in Fargo are very provincial with a general if your not from North Dakota your dirt attitude. North Dakota I have a feeling thinks the superiority complex they have is cute and the rest of the nation has an attitude (it doesnt) so why shouldnt they.

I also think North Dakotans are very materialistic and ultra-competitive in their ways, for some reason the moment you cross the border into Minnesota the atttitude, competitiveness and materialistic reduces drastically.

I guess we cant all be from the state with the smallest economy in the country, Wyoming recently surpassed North Dakota on the size of their economy.

I think alot of the reason why North Dakota has had population decline issues because the people there are arrogant to people not from their state.

I personally find Minnesotans to not have the arrogant persona that North Dakotans have. I also like the more outdoorsy and out and about culture in Minnesota as opposed to North Dakota.

[fourwinds]

Originally Posted by MattDen

Sorry, I meant North Dakota quality of life is decent

I always like how people from North Dakota think that when North Dakotans move from their state they are losing their most valuable assets the people in their 20s. I dont think people in North Dakota are any more intelligent then anywhere else.

Agree with you here: North Dakotans peer pressure seems to cause a convergence toward the middle.

The quality of life in Fargo is decent. I thought the selection of restaurants was good and the places to eat were good also. The coffee houses were decent and the place was clean.

However, Fargo decent quality of life doesnt justify the arrogance of North Dakotans. I found the people in Fargo are very provincial with a general if your not from North Dakota your dirt attitude. North Dakota I have a feeling thinks the superiority complex they have is cute and the rest of the nation has an attitude (it doesnt) so why shouldnt they.

In many ways, this may be more a reflection of Fargo itself. Fargo, at least the business community, has always had a swagger and self-confidence about it and their recent success seems to make that cultural attitude all the worse. The rest of state gives the name "Imperial Cass" to the complex oftened (inadvertently) displayed by Fargo and Cass County.

The populace in cities like Minot and Grand Forks, seem to have much more self-doubting complex, have essentially lost economic battles with Bismarck and Fargo, and both have had histories of natural disasters that made them much more humble.

I also think North Dakotans are very materialistic and ultra-competitive in their ways, for some reason the moment you cross the border into Minnesota the atttitude, competitiveness and materialistic reduces drastically.

Imperial Cass syndrome, I suspect. Moorhead as a city and business environment may share more in common sociologically with Grand Forks and Minot than it does with Fargo. (Moorhead, Grand Forks, and Minot all share heavy dependence on agricultural processing and all have a sizeable college populations.) Moorhead, Grand Forks, and Minot are not obsessed with becoming a new Omaha.

I personally find Minnesotans to not have the arrogant persona that North Dakotans have. I also like the more outdoorsy and out and about culture in Minnesota as opposed to North Dakota.

Western North Dakota is more definitely more outdoorsy than Eastern North Dakota.

[MattDen]

Four winds thanks for that response. I might have implied what I saw in Fargo to North Dakota as a whole which I shouldnt have done.

I guess Fargo is in competition with itself more then anything else, its certainly not in compeition with the nation as a whole successfully.

I was just looking and despite the swagger and arrogance, Fargo MSA are ranks 109th in per-capita personal income. The average wage in "Imperial Cass" is 32,700, the nation as whole average wage per job is 40,100.

I have yet to see any swagger, arrogance and pretention when I was in the Twin cities the the average wage per job in Hennepin County is 50,500, thats 18,300 dollars more then the hyper-materialistic Imperial Cass average resident makes a year.

I moved to Fargo anticipating a laid-back, clean and friendly community. I didnt think it would be ultra-prententious, cliquish and materialistic like I saw it being.

The quality of life in Fargo is good but the neighborhoods are sort of typical midwestern, but I have never seen so many people with their noses up the air until I went to Fargo.

I know they have the locals a designer botique downtown, its always funny how Fargoans dress up to walk down a street of primarily seedy bars, empty storefronts and no pedestrians to get to their "designer botique".

Ive heard Grand Forks residents have the same complaints about people in Fargo being arrogant and pretentious.

All and all, Fargo has a long way to go until its Greenwich, CT or Boulder, Colorado but theyll never stop thinking they are.