U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Northeastern Pennsylvania
 [Register]
Northeastern Pennsylvania Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Pocono area
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-17-2012, 08:05 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,104,832 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
Looking down the latest group of new comers is a NEPA tradition. Remember when the those people were called Wops or, a few years further back it was your bohunks and who could forget the Micks and the Mollie MacGuires.
Most 1890-1920 immigrants came to work at very difficult and dangerous jobs that the established population found undesirable. Many did not speak the language nor have ways to help them learn it. (This was one reason some groups were 'recruited' for the backbreaking jobs, because they couldn't easily leave without language skills). There were few, if any, government programs (like food, shelter, education, medical... all paid for by taxes) to support them. They either worked, left town, or returned to 'the homeland'. Because of the cost and difficulty, few did this.

Cheap housing then was a spartan room in a poor private home, a 'rooming house', or a company owned house. "Luxuries" were non-existent. Transportation was primitive. Communication to their family and friends was slow and difficult. Food, shelter and clothing were ONLY earned with sweat and labor. The "drugs" of the day were a (legal) shot and a beer, if they could afford them, and only the local tavern keeper peddled them. Immigrants worked very hard to speak the language and assimilate into the culture.

If they were fortunate and 'successful' they sent money back home to help relatives, wives and children to survive or even undertake the difficult journey from "the old country". Those who did this often left behind friends and family forever.

This is not to say that SOME new arrivals don't have a similar experience, and more, BUT because of today's technologies and government programs it is a LOT different. Many recent immigrants to NEPA come from families who have been in the USA for generations. There is little work here for the unskilled an uneducated and this is not why they come. The main advantage seems to be a better ratio of benefits to cost of living.

This is not a good recipe for success and can't go on forever without serious consequences.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-17-2012, 09:33 PM
 
Location: NE PA
7,940 posts, read 9,421,256 times
Reputation: 4264
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimazee View Post
There is little work here for the unskilled an uneducated and this is not why they come. The main advantage seems to be a better ratio of benefits to cost of living.

.
Actually it seems there is a lot of work around here for the unskilled and uneducated, but not quite enough skilled work unless you're in a trade, which is one of the problems....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2012, 09:37 PM
 
Location: NE PA
7,940 posts, read 9,421,256 times
Reputation: 4264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
1. If they had any inclination of going to college, they should have taken the academic track. This is another failing of schools - they don't properly evaluate and help students get in the correct track for their future goals.

2. Even if they were in the general track and changed their minds after graduation, they should still be able to do freshman level math and English without remediation.
They should be able to college freshman level math if they took general courses in high school? Not necessarily. You can get through high school and earn a general diploma taking basic math classes that aren't anywhere near college level. But I think most of how a kid is going to do in school depends on their parents and the kid's own motivation.

I also think that one of the reasons more kids going into college are having to take remedial courses is the fact that colleges are a lot less picky with admissions than they used to be....its all about the tuition $$$, I guess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2012, 06:52 AM
 
14,429 posts, read 8,502,578 times
Reputation: 6742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Yuk View Post
They should be able to college freshman level math if they took general courses in high school? Not necessarily. You can get through high school and earn a general diploma taking basic math classes that aren't anywhere near college level. But I think most of how a kid is going to do in school depends on their parents and the kid's own motivation.

I also think that one of the reasons more kids going into college are having to take remedial courses is the fact that colleges are a lot less picky with admissions than they used to be....its all about the tuition $$$, I guess.
College level math, at the freshman level, only builds upon what should be learned in high school. It's not high level math, Mr. Yuk. Your phrase "getting through high school" is precisely what I am talking about. We shouldn't set the bar so low.

Do you have any proof that college admissions are easier than they used to be? That isn't meant to be snarky, I'm truly interested.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2012, 06:55 AM
 
14,429 posts, read 8,502,578 times
Reputation: 6742
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimazee View Post
Most 1890-1920 immigrants came to work at very difficult and dangerous jobs that the established population found undesirable. Many did not speak the language nor have ways to help them learn it. (This was one reason some groups were 'recruited' for the backbreaking jobs, because they couldn't easily leave without language skills). There were few, if any, government programs (like food, shelter, education, medical... all paid for by taxes) to support them. They either worked, left town, or returned to 'the homeland'. Because of the cost and difficulty, few did this.

Cheap housing then was a spartan room in a poor private home, a 'rooming house', or a company owned house. "Luxuries" were non-existent. Transportation was primitive. Communication to their family and friends was slow and difficult. Food, shelter and clothing were ONLY earned with sweat and labor. The "drugs" of the day were a (legal) shot and a beer, if they could afford them, and only the local tavern keeper peddled them. Immigrants worked very hard to speak the language and assimilate into the culture.

If they were fortunate and 'successful' they sent money back home to help relatives, wives and children to survive or even undertake the difficult journey from "the old country". Those who did this often left behind friends and family forever.

This is not to say that SOME new arrivals don't have a similar experience, and more, BUT because of today's technologies and government programs it is a LOT different. Many recent immigrants to NEPA come from families who have been in the USA for generations. There is little work here for the unskilled an uneducated and this is not why they come. The main advantage seems to be a better ratio of benefits to cost of living.

This is not a good recipe for success and can't go on forever without serious consequences.

There were other drugs readily available to the poor and downtrodden in the 19th century. Cocaine and opium were cheap, legal and easy to obtain. Your post does sound suspiciously similar to the immigration issues of today. Many immigrants do the jobs here that Americans refuse to do. Other jobs are exported to cheaper labor countries.

Additionally, many immigrants of the 19th century did turn to crime. The Irish were infamous for their corrupt politics once they got into power.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2012, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Drama Central
4,084 posts, read 5,686,871 times
Reputation: 1845
Ok so what is the good, the bad and the ugly.....

How about another thread since this one is about 19th century immigrants and the educational system in NEPA.

Come on now....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2012, 02:09 PM
 
10,266 posts, read 16,306,362 times
Reputation: 4806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
It's only fair to have a thread dedicated to venting about the ills that plague our beautiful, but vulnerable, area of the country & state. I wanted to start this thread not only to vent but perhaps share ideas on how to fix what is wrong with our communities. This needn't be a fight or bashing session. People should be able to freely exchange ideas here without being called names or belittling other people's POVs.

I'll start.

1. Crime in Wilkes-Barre: seems to be off the charts over the last few months. Between muggings, shootings, robberies (not to mention a machete attack) it seems like the insane have taken over the asylum. Nearly all of the people involved in these crimes are not from our area.

2. Wilkes-Barre Area School District: The schools are failing. My child's school has been low-acheiving since 2008. The district went from being 128th (in 2007) out of 498 districts in PSSA testing to 412th in 2011. Completely unacceptable. About 35% of the high school graduates in the WBASD require remediation in math and/or reading upon entering college before they can take college level courses in the respective subjects. There are numerous disciplinary issues in the schools as well. Loud, disruptive kids are allowed to stay in the classrooms. Again and again, violent, troubled youths are allowed to come back to school only to disrupt the other students' education. Why is this happening?

3. Decline in neighborhoods: This is linked with crimes, obviously. I am talking about the slum lords, the out of town people that come here for welfare and Section 8 benefits. I am speaking about the active solicitation of such people from other problem areas in the country - several towns & cities in NJ and NY. Our local housing authorities and assistance offices are advertising in these places to bring the worst of the worst here to our city. Why is this allowed? I've never seen one person place the blame of the decline in our neighborhoods on the shoulders of the housing authorities.

Feel free to debate my points or add your own. We need to get the conversation started to fix issues in our communities. I, myself, am truly on the fence about relocating and staying. If I didn't have children, the decision would be an easy one.
Let's look over that OP again ^^^^^
__________________
Please follow THESE rules.

Any Questions on how to use this site? See this.

Realtors, See This.

Moderator - Lehigh Valley, NEPA, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Education and Colleges and Universities.

When I post in bold red, that is Moderator action and per the TOS can be discussed only via Direct Message.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2012, 02:26 PM
Status: "Hitoribotchi no yoru" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
4,597 posts, read 2,075,204 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by weluvpa View Post
Ok so what is the good, the bad and the ugly.....

How about another thread since this one is about 19th century immigrants and the educational system in NEPA.

Come on now....

The good,the bad and the ugly are very much tied up in the history and how things have kind of wound down in NEPA since the days of King Anthracite. Gold was indeed black wasn't it along with the steam powered railroads to get it to the bustling cities along the Eastern Seaboard. The pronlem is there is not much gold in cracking coal today. Also NEPA is a hard place for outsiders. My taste of this was in Carbon County in 1967 when my family and I moved from Oregon to a nice little town called Palmerton. Talk about culture shock and the environment! I would never call Blue Mt or the Poconos anything bit hills when placed against the real Mountains out west. I was in a school that was 10 to 20 times larger than the one I came from in Oregon and it took the staff several weeks to put me in the right class at Steven S. Palmer Middle School because my records were so scant from Oregon. I was in a school out west that didn't have tracking and entire grades there had less than a dozen students! So NEPA was like this 50 years ago and it will probably be like this 50 years from now. Now I gone to stranger places since we went from the Pacific NW to Northeast Penna, take Nigeria , Honduras or Bolivia they are all outstanding in their own ways but NEPA has good memories for me. Especially after I got a trip to the Principals Office for punching out a bully , he was shocked that someone in the 7-1 section (College Prep) would use a fist to solve this sort of problem. Sometimes violence is the solution, It worked wonders with my new friends at SSP.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2012, 02:33 PM
 
2,473 posts, read 3,283,934 times
Reputation: 1190
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
Let's look over that OP again ^^^^^
Kenny Rogers - Long arm of the law lyrics - YouTube

And the lyrics deal w/the son of a miner, so it's NEPA-related!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 04:59 AM
 
14,429 posts, read 8,502,578 times
Reputation: 6742
Quote:
Originally Posted by weluvpa View Post
Ok so what is the good, the bad and the ugly.....

How about another thread since this one is about 19th century immigrants and the educational system in NEPA.

Come on now....
The educational system of an area is a huge, huge indicator of the quality of living in a particular community. We did get a bit off the track with 19th century immigration.


What do you think of NEPA, Dan? What are the areas that you think need improvement? What changes would produce positive results for our area?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Northeastern Pennsylvania
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top