carbondale pa.......how is it? (Scranton, Progress: city hall, condos, credit)

[travman514]

wow.so many points of view on the area.i have been back to carbondale about 6 times since i started this post and i drive up different blocks every time.some spots are run down and some spots are gorgious.i guess it all depends on who has the money and the drive to fix up the homes.some homes are situated ass backwards and some are situated nicely. the downtown area is cute but it does need a little work as well.the house my parents are buying next friday is quite nice and looks well maintained and so are most other houses around it. oooh. and it has a hospital 2 blocks away..i dont know how good that hospital is but at least its close .overall im thinking my parents will do fine there and i hope it does improve.

[Phish Head]

There may be a 3% wage tax in Scranton, but all of the other places you named with low taxes have real estate prices that are out of reach unless you have a very high income.

The places I mentioned were Syracuse, Elmira, and Binghamton. All of these cities have low costs for housing just like Scranton. And they all had similar economic problems, from what I could see. I can see how Scranton may be somewhat liveable. However, if my wife and I make a combined $50k a year, then I have to give an EXTRA $1,500 a year for a 3% wage tax, when I can live in the town next door and only pay $500. That's a year's car insurance payment, brother!

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by Phish Head

I can see how Scranton may be somewhat liveable. However, if my wife and I make a combined $50k a year, then I have to give an EXTRA $1,500 a year for a 3% wage tax, when I can live in the town next door and only pay $500. That's a year's car insurance payment, brother!

I concur. The high wage tax is one of the few remaining hurdles that the Electric City has in luring in new residents. Many of the newer transplants from NY/NJ are still being lured into the Abingtons, as well as many of Scranton's younger, middle-class families. These families are mostly being replaced by empty-nesters and retirees, young professional singles, and middle-aged couples without children. You can spruce up the downtown all that you want, but Scranton will never thrive 100% until it stops the massive decline in population that it has endured for the past several decades. This is why I now think Mayor Doherty needs to start shifting some of his attention away from Center City's new frou frou boutiques and pubs and into the city's neighborhoods. Two neighborhoods in particular, the Hill Section and Green Ridge, have begun to bounce back on their own with minimal city assistance thanks to their historic architecture that can't be replicated anywhere else in the region. East Mountain is stable and has a stagnant population; new homes are being built here and there, but the death rate overshadows the birth rate---The same can be said for Minooka. West Side is a bit of an enigma to me; there is quite a bit of new construction in and around Keyser Avenue, and the main drag of North Main Avenue through the "downtown" of West Side is charming (along with Providence Square), but some of its residential neighborhoods have declined with the advent of drug activity. SouthSide between Minooka and Center City has been sketchy for a number of years and hasn't seen any improvements. Given the close proximity of SouthSide to Center City, I feel as if Mayor Doherty should start here with residential re-investment ideas.

One bad thing about SouthSide (and also a growing trend in West Side), is that many of the formerly single-family-homes have been converted into duplex and triplex rental dwellings. No offense to those who rent, but you have to admit that renters are more transient than homeowners and don't tend to care as much about the future upkeep of their neighborhood, as they can pack up and leave at a moment's notice. With less owner-occupied homes and more renter-occupied properties, SouthSide has lost much of its "civic pride", as people just move their rear-ends when they become discouraged with the conditions around them (Whereas those living in single-family homes in the Hill Section were more inclined to demand the police saturations in the mid-1990s that helped to restore pride in their neighborhood again, as they couldn't just pick up and leave, as nobody would want to buy their home in a neighborhood with such a heinous reputation). At the very least, if SouthSide is going to continue to have such a large concentration of renters, then the mayor has to do something to infuse a sense of responsibility and pride for their neighborhood and city within them. Having a neighborhood full of apathetic residents is a recipe for sure disaster (How do you think the Hill Section got to its pre-1996 state of udder disrepair?)

I'm sorry that you thought Scranton was such a dump; I believe that if you toured Scranton in 1996 vs. 2006, you'd see why I'm so excited by what's happening here. We've gone from daily violent crimes, dive bars, and graffiti everywhere to rare violent crime, Irish pubs, and murals adorning various downtown gateways. Hey, if it's good enough for Rainn Wilson, Paul and Mira Sorvino, and U.S. Senator-elect Bob Casey, then it's good enough for me! In a few years, I'll be adding to the growing ranks of young, hip professionals that are flooding back into the city (Lofts @ The Mill, St. Peter's Square, Jefferson Pointe, Center Street lofts, Hill Section etc.) In order for a city to thrive, its own resident must stand firmly behind it with pride 100%! Unfortunately, Conorsdad and myself are the two rare exceptions who feel as if the city has potential; most who live in Scranton (and in my case its suburbs) have the "ick" mentality about the city's image. It would be nice to be immersed with others who think Scranton is liveable and not a garbage dump for a change, as so many of its own residents consider it to be. You want to see a "slum?" Come to Pittston Township and run for exercise along the sidewalk-deprived, congested, four-lane commuter highway that runs in front of our subdivision while dodging crazed, Prozac-doped soccer moms on cell phones in Suburbans! I'll take living in a shady Hill Section or Green Ridge neighborhood anyday over this hell hole!

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by mm_mary73

THANK YOU!!!!!!! Is it still open? or has someone closed it down? I seem to recall someone climbing over the railing and falling in (and dying, I think) a long time ago. Used to be a pretty spot.....

Ah, the good ol' Archbald Pothole......the butt of many jokes here in Lackawanna County, for nothing more than its infamous status as a spot for gay men looking for some "action."

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by conorsdad

Ah, the good ol' Archbald Pothole......the butt of many jokes here in Lackawanna County, for nothing more than its infamous status as a spot for gay men looking for some "action."

OOOOOOHHHH!!!! So that's where I'm supposed to make my pilgrimage to! LOL! That explains why I'm still single!

[Phish Head]

I'm sorry that you thought Scranton was such a dump; I believe that if you toured Scranton in 1996 vs. 2006, you'd see why I'm so excited by what's happening here.

I certainly never said that Scranton was a dump. Many people, myself included, who are only a few years out of college, cannot afford a home in a gentrified suburb. Nor do I want to live in a sterile place like that. Its my opinion that tax INCENTIVES should be given to people so that they move to Scranton. Example- Most PA towns impose a 1% wage tax. Scranton's is 3%. Why? Who in their right mind would move to a place that charges you to live there, when one town away is 1/3 the price? Maybe NYC can do this, with world class art, theatre, etc. Not Scranton. If there was a tax incentive, such as NO wage tax, I could see a huge influx of people coming in, and the revenue would still be there through sales taxes and property tax.

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by Phish Head

Example- Most PA towns impose a 1% wage tax. Scranton's is 3%. Why? Who in their right mind would move to a place that charges you to live there, when one town away is 1/3 the price? .

I can answer that one for you, since that is the situation I was in. I grew up outside of Scranton, in a "suburb" about 8 miles to the north. The reason I moved into Scranton when I bought my first home was the significantly lower real estate prices in Scranton. The deal I got on my house, which is in a nice middle-class neighborhood with mostly well-kept single-family older homes, could not have been touched in one of the "1%" suburbs. Plus, there is more to look at than just the wage tax. Scranton's property taxes are not that high compared to surrounding towns. Some of the "desirable" suburban areas have outarageously high property taxes, especially in Abington Heights and Valley View School Districts. Plus, there are are other intangibles you can't find in other area towns....there is more of a neighborhood feel to Scranton, there are small neighborhood elementary schools within walking distance of just about everyone, rather than having your kids bussed to some sterile "mega-school" that is miles from your house. I can walk to stores, restaurants, playgrounds, etc. When I lived in the "burbs" everything was a drive. Saves a lot on gas especially with today's prices. And another good thing about Scranton is that it has all the conveniences of a city, but still has a small town feel to it.
For me, those things offset the wage tax.....although there is no denying that I would like lower taxes.

[ScranBarre]

Conorsdad, I share your sentiments. I've grown up in a suburb 8 miles to the south of Scranton (I'm guessing you're originally from somewhere in the Abingtons), and housing prices in my hometown of Pittston Township have shot up exponentially over even the past decade. My parents' own home has appreciated in value from their purchase price of $115,000 in 1996 to over $200,000 today. For a young professional just starting out on his own, perhaps earning a starting salary of $35,000 and saddled with college debt, $115,000 would even be a financial stretch, let alone most of Pittston Township's upper-$100k housing stock. As such, I find the idea of purchasing an affordable home in West Side or North Scranton to be a perfect stepping stone for me to build up some equity, repay my student loans, gain a few promotions, and then trade on up to a downtown loft (Hopefully Jefferson Pointe). From there, I'll probably wind up in a nice, small Victorian charmer in the Hill Section for $250,000 or so with my significan other and our three adopted children.

To me, I see the suburbs of Scranton as being bland, boring, and downright sterile. I go running for exercise in the warmer months along a four-lane commuter highway in front of my development where the air pollution was so horrific one day that it resulted in a coughing fit in which I threw up my Propel all over the pavement. I don't want that type of "keeping up with the Jones's" and "rush-rush" type of atmosphere for my own children in the future. I view the people of Scranton as being more "down-to-earth" and less concerned with material wealth, two attributes I admire fondly in a neighborhood. I'd love in the future to host neighborhood backyard barbecue mixers, in which all would be welcome to come, sit, eat, listen to some music, and learn more about each other in order to foster a better neighborhood. As an aspiring Scranton City Councilman (and hopefully mayor one day if the city will elect a minority to such a high office), I'm excited for the potential that this city has.

Finally, you and I are among a growing trend of adults who are tiring of the "drive everywhere for everything everyday" suburban lifestyles. That might not be so prevalent around here, but in extremely sprawled-out areas, (Atlanta comes to mind), there has been a huge demand for housing in the city limits again as people long for the days in which they could walk five minutes to a grocery store, corner bar, church, pharmacy, bank, etc. instead of being forced to sit in traffic for 20 minutes on four-lane roadways to get anywhere (I suppose we're seeing that just starting to happen now with a few Abington residents making the move back into the city; their higher incomes will certainly help the city's finances via the wage tax for sure). In my preferred neighborhood of Clay Avenue in the Hill Section, I'd be able to walk my children to elementary school in the morning before walking to work at my downtown office. At lunch, I'd walk home to watch the noon news in my living room along with my significant other while eating sandwiches. I'd then walk back to work. My soul mate would walk to school to pick up our children, and then he'd watch them until 5 PM when I'd close up the office and walk home, arriving at around 5:10 PM (as opposed to 5:30 if I lived on one of those "trendy" Abington cul-de-sacs). I'd arrive home to either spend a quiet evening with the children or to hire a babysitter and take the boyfriend out for a night on the town, heading to Brixx for some great salads or Coney Island for a great Texas weiner, followed by a jaunt to Steamtown so I could check out the candy section of Boscov's, followed by a stroll along Spruce Street to pick up some goodies for our golden retriever at Poochie or to grab a java at Northern Lights. Perhaps we'd cap off the evening by walking to an event at the Scranton Cultural Center at 7 PM followed by mellowing out at the new blues cafe? On Saturdays, we'd walk the kids up to Nay Aug Park to enjoy the animals at the Genesis Center, take a dip in the pool, or to watch their eyes light up wide at the waterfall! To me, this life just sounds so much more ideal than this ugly Pittston Area cul-de-sac we currently live on. Sure, it's a trendy, growing area on the southern periphery of Scranton, but driving so much tends to promote obesity, stress, and hurriedness, wheras walking to everything along the shady streets of the Hill Section would inspire my artistic side.

[MermanMike]

SWB--I have to say I love to read what you write so much. It always makes me smile. I can tell you really love life and that is the only wealth you will ever need!
I am still house hunting for a rustic, rural property with acreage in the area, but will be staying with my parents in Pittston until I make a decision on a house (or to build). The Cul de sac lifestyle isn't for me either, but I'm happy to be with my family and closer to trees for the winter. Thanks again for all your help on this board.
P.S. Where are you running--the bypass? You'd be much safer on the track at Pittston Area, or running through Highland Hills and Willow View, which are now rougly connected in the back due to continued development.

[bamboosmom]

Happy belated B'day Paul!!!!