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Northeastern Pennsylvania Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Pocono area
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
607 posts, read 488,756 times
Reputation: 377

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Auntie and Carbon, you noted, "My only observation in Philly and the suburbs is that we rarely encounter cigarette smoke blown in our faces."

Very interesting observation and shows the effectiveness of resisting total smoking bans! Philadelphia has over a hundred bars that legally allow smoking (plus there are a lot that just illegally allow it at night etc) and Pennsylvania's list of smoking allowed bars and restaurants in the suburbs and the state overall is close to 3,000 entries long! Plus I believe private clubs are generally exempt in the state (not certain on that though) -- so it's likely there are at least 5,000 places where smokers and their friends can gather inside in comfort to relax rather than "blowing smoke" on you while you're walking outside or going to a nonsmoking establishment.

Excellent argument for pushing for a repeal of bans in your home towns. I'd suggest downloading and printing out copies of "The Lies Against The Smoking Bans" from http://TinyURL.com/SmokingBanLies and distributing them around!

Best of luck with your efforts! Hopefully we'll continue to fight a total ban in this state!
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:52 PM
 
3,050 posts, read 2,513,259 times
Reputation: 3959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael J. McFadden View Post
Auntie and Carbon, you noted, "My only observation in Philly and the suburbs is that we rarely encounter cigarette smoke blown in our faces."

Very interesting observation and shows the effectiveness of resisting total smoking bans! Philadelphia has over a hundred bars that legally allow smoking (plus there are a lot that just illegally allow it at night etc) and Pennsylvania's list of smoking allowed bars and restaurants in the suburbs and the state overall is close to 3,000 entries long! Plus I believe private clubs are generally exempt in the state (not certain on that though) -- so it's likely there are at least 5,000 places where smokers and their friends can gather inside in comfort to relax rather than "blowing smoke" on you while you're walking outside or going to a nonsmoking establishment.

Excellent argument for pushing for a repeal of bans in your home towns. I'd suggest downloading and printing out copies of "The Lies Against The Smoking Bans" from http://TinyURL.com/SmokingBanLies and distributing them around!

Best of luck with your efforts! Hopefully we'll continue to fight a total ban in this state!
Yeah, no. I prefer not to have someone smoking near me at all. Thanks though.
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:53 PM
 
711 posts, read 397,206 times
Reputation: 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by theatergypsy View Post
My daughter-in-law, born and raised in New Jersey, battled breast cancer since 1999. She recovered, but had a recurrence in 2006. School teacher in New Jersey. Not a smoker, nor is her husband, (my eldest son). Her treatments, chemo and radiation, all performed in New Jersey. She passed away last Friday.
My condolences.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
607 posts, read 488,756 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonCountyLiving View Post
Yeah, no. I prefer not to have someone smoking near me at all. Thanks though.
Carbon, clearly the best way to achieve that is by allowing places to designate themselves as smoking or nonsmoking so that you would have the choice not to go into places where people would be smoking near you, while, at the same time, reducing your encounters with smoke while walking down the street etc.

Total bans clearly result in more people smoking along the sidewalks or outside of doorways or "sneaking smokes" in bathrooms or back rooms in places you might go to -- thereby increasing the times when people smoke near you.

You should let your legislators know that Pennsylvania should do its best to maintain, and perhaps even expand, the exemptions it currently has so that your encounters with smoke will be reduced. I would suggest you print out and share "The Lies Behind The Smoking Bans" that I recommended below and send it to your legislators: ask them to offer any specific, substantive criticisms of it that they might have, and I think you'll find yourself met with stone cold silence.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:59 PM
 
3,050 posts, read 2,513,259 times
Reputation: 3959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael J. McFadden View Post
Carbon, clearly the best way to achieve that is by allowing places to designate themselves as smoking or nonsmoking so that you would have the choice not to go into places where people would be smoking near you, while, at the same time, reducing your encounters with smoke while walking down the street etc.

Total bans clearly result in more people smoking along the sidewalks or outside of doorways or "sneaking smokes" in bathrooms or back rooms in places you might go to -- thereby increasing the times when people smoke near you.

You should let your legislators know that Pennsylvania should do its best to maintain, and perhaps even expand, the exemptions it currently has so that your encounters with smoke will be reduced. I would suggest you print out and share "The Lies Behind The Smoking Bans" that I recommended below and send it to your legislators: ask them to offer any specific, substantive criticisms of it that they might have, and I think you'll find yourself met with stone cold silence.
Good luck with your quest, but I'll pass.
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:57 PM
 
3,803 posts, read 4,806,097 times
Reputation: 3463
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I take issue with people that take a serious issue and will either naively or purposely push there own agenda by using a boogeyman. Let's consider this logically instead of emotionally.

What's the ratio of cancer from smoking vs. other causes? If someone is there for prostate cancer suffice it to say it's not from smoking or second hand smoke.

Even if we were to use some of the suspect data on second hand smoke what is the ratio of cancer rates in smokers vs non smokers. Certainly the smoker is going to have a greater risk of cancer by many magnitudes.

Once you have compiled those numbers and extrapolate based on those 8 people how many could possibly be there from second hand smoke? 1 in 1 million?
first of all--i take issue myself with someone focusing on one agenda and ignoring the health issue that is cancer and MOST OF ALL--i requested feedback on why there is so much cancer in nepa------i identified what i saw as ONE cause------so drop your smoking defense and try to focus on other causes for high cancer incidences------------

in my year long visits at cancer treatment facilities----again i state there is a high incidence of cancer in nepa and lesser in other places

and there is data that second hand smoke is a causative factor-----but that is not the main focus of my questions

i now understand why this cd region has such few posters----who wants to constantly have to defend their questions and opinions

my condolences to gypsy---this is a difficult illness for everyone
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
607 posts, read 488,756 times
Reputation: 377
Auntie, Coalman's observation seems fairly reasonable, so I don't see why your reaction is as strong as it seems.

Current observations in NEPA have nothing to do with cancers that have a ten or twenty or thirty year time lag. Without that lag the whole compelling graphic connection between smoking and lung cancer falls apart. Twenty years ago I would suspect that exposure to secondary smoke in NEPA was about the same as it was throughout the rest of the country -- Even California still allowed smoking throughout its workplaces and restaurants and bars.

In terms of comparing it to "the rest of the country," even just for current exposures to secondary smoke, it would be good to know what you mean by that term. Unless you're a pretty active itinerant Bible saleswoman, you're probably speaking from observations made in just three or four cities/states. If they include California and Utah, then I wouldn't be surprised at what you saw because of the low percentage of smokers. If they included states that have escaped smoking bans in bars, I also wouldn't be surprised since a lot of smokers would be sitting in bars or workplaces while they smoked while out rather than standing outside where you had to walk by them and would see them. So where were your observations based?

Finally, in terms of defending one's statements and opinions... that's what discussion boards are all about. Heh, you should see some of the defending I've had to do over the years on this issue! Think about it: how often have you been accused of murdering children or taking money from corporations for your efforts? Ever been told you're worse than a pedophile, or that someone hopes you choke to slowly to death on your own blood? Any time I make a statement or voice an opinion I *know* I stand a good chance of being challenged on it, and while it may be a pain in the neck to have to re-explain things over several times to someone who just doesn't "get it" or understand the science or statistics, or to have to go back through my files to find the original references that I was pseudo-quoting from memory because someone isn't willing to take my word on a minor point... Well, that's the kitchen and heat here on the Net and I don't intend to get pushed out.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
15,569 posts, read 9,595,827 times
Reputation: 26034
Quote:
Originally Posted by theatergypsy View Post
My daughter-in-law, born and raised in New Jersey, battled breast cancer since 1999. She recovered, but had a recurrence in 2006. School teacher in New Jersey. Not a smoker, nor is her husband, (my eldest son). Her treatments, chemo and radiation, all performed in New Jersey. She passed away last Friday.

I'm so sorry to hear that, theatergypsy.
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:10 AM
 
3,803 posts, read 4,806,097 times
Reputation: 3463
again i can see why there are so few posters and less topics that can be discussed maturely-----why so much rudeness and name calling---btw--ex--itinerant bible salesmen and questioning my travels---so off topic and reference to studies supporting smoking---again off topic--SIGH---my empathy to too busy the mod
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:35 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
607 posts, read 488,756 times
Reputation: 377
Default ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by auntieannie68 View Post
again i can see why there are so few posters and less topics that can be discussed maturely-----why so much rudeness and name calling---btw--ex--itinerant bible salesmen and questioning my travels---so off topic and reference to studies supporting smoking---again off topic--SIGH---my empathy to too busy the mod
Excuse me Auntie, but there was absolutely NOTHING rude, nor any name-calling in my posting to you. The questioning of your statistical base for observations was quite on-topic and the notation of "itinerant Bible saleswoman" was clearly meant as a lightener in an otherwise rather long, dry, and *very much* "on topic" posting. I also do not see where I referenced any studies supporting smoking in my posting.

A clarification would be appreciated m'lady.
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