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Thread summary:

Pennsylvania: Scranton, taxes, diversity, housing, college.

View Poll Results: Should Scranton Promote Itself to the Creative Class?
Yes 9 69.23%
No 4 30.77%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-13-2007, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,247,404 times
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While poring over several "Best Places" lists this morning on various web sites, I continually bumped into a mention of the phrase "creative class." Curious, I did some research into just what constitutes this demographic I was unfamiliar with. I learned that the phrase was coined by social scientist Dr. Richard Florida of George Mason University. He has written two books about this emerging demographic group, including The Rise of the Creative Class, which profiles the impact this class is having upon society, and The Flight of the Creative Class, which highlights other nations with a growing creative class and how they may compete with the United States workforce viability in the future. Here are some of my findings:

CREATIVE CLASS:

Kiplinger.com : "The creative class includes scientists, engineers, architects, educators, writers, artists, and entertainers. Such people inject vitality into a city and make it a vibrant place to live."

I also pored over http://www.creativeclass.com/ , which has some videos, reviews, etc. of Florida's work.


At various city council meetings, several residents have bemoaned that Mayor Christopher Doherty is attempting to transform Scranton into a "city for the creative class" through his promotion of the arts. However, I'm still not coming to terms with being able to grasp with how this is a bad thing for the city. This so-called "creative class" has higher overall educational attainment levels and usually well-paying careers as a result. These higher salaries will help to beef up wage tax revenues. The influx of creative class types to Scranton will make it more attractive for Wall Street West firms to establish operations here, bringing high-paying positions with them. Cities with high creative class levels tend to be more tolerant and more diverse than cities without a creative class. All in all I'm just not seeing why Sam Patilla and the other city council regulars are so vehemently opposed to gentrification of Scranton's blighted areas.

What are your opinions into this matter?
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Old 12-13-2007, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Scranton
2,940 posts, read 3,931,035 times
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The problem is that they're putting the cart before the horse. The educated or "creative class" is not just going to settle here in Scranton and wait for good jobs to arrive....they will go where the jobs are. The focus needs to first be on bringing in good jobs, and as a result, educated people will move here. Nobody's going to move here for a nice loft apartment and an art gallery if all there is to make a living are retail jobs and telemarketing.
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Old 12-13-2007, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conorsdad View Post
The problem is that they're putting the cart before the horse. The educated or "creative class" is not just going to settle here in Scranton and wait for good jobs to arrive....they will go where the jobs are. The focus needs to first be on bringing in good jobs, and as a result, educated people will move here. Nobody's going to move here for a nice loft apartment and an art gallery if all there is to make a living are retail jobs and telemarketing.
The potential does exist though to bring more great jobs here. In the past six months, four new Wall Street West-oriented employers were announced for Downtown Scranton---Seccas, SRA Internatioal, Merrill Lynch, and one other yet-to-be-disclosed firm that is probably now pulling out because the incoming county comissioners won't fully permit Jerry Joyce to develop his Jefferson Pointe project (their first blunder, in my opinion, of what I hope won't be indicative of a trend in the coming years for the county).

Scranton has a relatively low cost of operations for a business in relation to areas just an hour to our east in NJ or NY. We also have the edge in quality-of-life, in my opinion. Quality-of-life and affordability are two major criteria potential new firms use when deciding where to relocate, and as of right now Scranton is gaining ground in both departments. The taxes the city levies upon its businesses might be a burden, but they are still nothing compared to NJ/NYC/SEPA. I laugh when folks in Scranton complain about paying "Draconian" $1,800 in annual property taxes for a 3-bedroom home when folks in Northern New Jersey are likely paying four times as much for a similar home with a similar level of services, not to mention the fact that $150,000 will get you a gorgeous home in the city of Scranton and not even a shack in NJ.

Companies look out first and foremost for themselves (how much profit they may stand to reap from where they move as compared to staying put), but secondly they look out for their workforce. They want to make sure that if they relocate existing employees to a new area that they aren't moving them to Beirut. They look for quality-of-life issues---crime rates (Scranton has the 59th-lowest in the nation), housing prices (Scranton has the 4th-lowest in the nation), public school quality (like it or not Abington Heights is always ranked WAY above the state and national averages), recreation (like it or not NAY AUG PARK, McDade Park, minor-league sports, ski resorts, casinos, etc.), arts/culture (Everhart Museum, Scranton Cultural Center, NEPA Philharmonic, First Fridays, Jazz Festival, etc.), and various other factors. They also look into geographic location (Scranton can't be beat being just slightly over two hours from New York City or Philadelphia and being developed as the cultural hub of the Poconos). One other thing they look at that Scranton has against it is quality of work force. Yes, people in NEPA overall possess an unbeatable work ethic, but very few have any training, education, or skills beyond high school, which is very unattractive to high-paying employers, who like to see job candidates who have invested in themselves before they invest in them as well. Until more folks in our region see value in going to college, going to trade school, obtaining certifications, etc. that would make them more employable, we're always going to have supressed wages. Want me, an employer, to pay you a high salary? Prove it to me that you're worth it. High school diplomas are a dime a dozen---90% of the nation has them. Big deal. Even Bachelor's Degrees are now held by 1/3 of adults in this nation; they are no longer a "golden ticket" to a great job. Too many in this area have the attitude of "gimme, gimme" but don't back it up with "...because." I have to laugh once again at city council speakers who whine about low wages when I have to wonder just how many of them even have a high school diploma.

In short, Scranton DOES have all but one factor that employers are looking for. We have the high quality-of-life, relatively-low cost of operations, and strategic location, but we lack in terms of education. Want to build a better Scranton? We'll have to encourage the formation of our own creative class from within.
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Old 12-13-2007, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Scranton
2,940 posts, read 3,931,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre View Post

In short, Scranton DOES have all but one factor that employers are looking for. We have the high quality-of-life, relatively-low cost of operations, and strategic location, but we lack in terms of education. Want to build a better Scranton? We'll have to encourage the formation of our own creative class from within.

There are many educated people who come from this area...the problem is most of them move away after school due to the lack of job opportunities here. I would say that a majority of my high school class that graduated from college no longer lives in the area. If there were opportunities here, most of them would stay....the end result would be that our levels of education would rise just by being able to retain the locals that move away. Plus, many of the out-of-town college students might decide to stay here if there were more opportunities here beyond call centers, retail stores, and warehouses.
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Old 12-13-2007, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conorsdad View Post
There are many educated people who come from this area...the problem is most of them move away after school due to the lack of job opportunities here. I would say that a majority of my high school class that graduated from college no longer lives in the area. If there were opportunities here, most of them would stay....the end result would be that our levels of education would rise just by being able to retain the locals that move away. Plus, many of the out-of-town college students might decide to stay here if there were more opportunities here beyond call centers, retail stores, and warehouses.
I'm a 2005 graduate of Pittston Area, and I can agree that most of my peers have either already left the area or plan on doing so after attending college locally. I'm one of the few who plans to stay here with my degree. Why am I staying when I know I could easily have more opportunities as a CPA in New Jersey? I realize that earning $40,000 as a starting salary in Scranton vs. earning $60,000 as a starting salary in New Jersey is actually better in terms of relating one's income to cost-of-living. I could earn $40,000 and afford a $120,000 home in Scranton if we were to go by the general rule of thumb of not spending more than 3 times your annual income to purcase a home. I could live in New Jersey and afford a $180,000 home there on that $60,000 salary. What's that, little birdie in my ear? A home that would sell for $120,000 in Scranton would sell for a whopping $400,000 in New Jersey? Well then I suppose I would not be better off leaving NEPA. After all, would I rather be able to own my own home or have to rent a 1-bedroom apartment?

Most of my peers at King's are looking solely at the generous starting salaries being offered to them by PwC in Florham Park, NJ, Reznick in Maryland, etc., but they don't realize that the extra $20,000 per year is MORE than absorbed by the higher cost-of-living. If you want to see a bunch of miserable folks, head on over to the NJ forum, where dually-employed couples making $60,000 per year can barely make ends meat due to the astronomical cost-of-living there. It's even worse in NYC and Boston, and it's just as bad in Northern VA, MD, CT. It's nearly as bad now in Philadelphia too. The Lehigh Valley's median home prices are now over $270,000. Folks in NEPA don't realize just how fortunate they are to be able to have the quality-of-life they do on the salaries they make. I'd be happy with a $40,000 starting salary in Scranton. I'd be offended by a $40,000 starting salary in NYC. It's all relative. Those who leave NEPA sheerly "for the numbers" are fools.

Last edited by SteelCityRising; 12-13-2007 at 09:52 AM.. Reason: Math error...I know, I know...some accountant, right? LOL!
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:34 AM
 
1,245 posts, read 3,168,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre View Post
Yes, people in NEPA overall possess an unbeatable work ethic
I would have to disagee with this, but only based on my rather slim experience. I have worked with the HR departments for two large area employers. In company A we had 6 training classes with about 10 employees in each, by the end of the 2 weeks of training less than half are left. In company B we had 3 training classes with about 20 employees in each, by the end of 4 weeks of training each class had about 5 employees left in each. It was not uncommon for the trainees to come in late or take multiple days off. These were pretty easy jobs at a decent pay scale.
This has not been my experience in other areas of the state (Philly Suburbs and Lehigh Valley).
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:09 AM
 
38 posts, read 76,601 times
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Default something to think about SWB ...

Just a quick point about salaries and the cost of living mantra - please don't fall for the prevalent mentality in this area in which someone's "starting" pay remains a constant. For example, a good friend of mine left PA for Reston, VA about ten years ago for a starting salary of $30k, ten years later he is just over 110k due to increases (by taking progressive steps with different companies). He estimates that he would be around 40-50k if he had stayed in PA due to the lack of opportunities.

Yes, it is more expensive in terms of housing prices (although that bubble is deflating a bit!) but everyday items can be found cheaper. Another poster has it right, this area has/had plenty of educated people but many do not stay.

Anyhow, just wanted to point that out...
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nepanite View Post
Just a quick point about salaries and the cost of living mantra - please don't fall for the prevalent mentality in this area in which someone's "starting" pay remains a constant. For example, a good friend of mine left PA for Reston, VA about ten years ago for a starting salary of $30k, ten years later he is just over 110k due to increases (by taking progressive steps with different companies). He estimates that he would be around 40-50k if he had stayed in PA due to the lack of opportunities.

Yes, it is more expensive in terms of housing prices (although that bubble is deflating a bit!) but everyday items can be found cheaper. Another poster has it right, this area has/had plenty of educated people but many do not stay.

Anyhow, just wanted to point that out...
True. However there are still opportunities for advancement here in NEPA as well. My father worked his way up to a $72,000 salary as a senior systems analyst at his former employer. My brother-in-law started at $50,000 as an engineer. My sister started at $33,000 as a teacher and is now nearing $40,000. Most local CPAs I know do quite well for themselves; my neighbor has a brand new BMW sedan.

I think a lot of people simply major in the fields that aren't in demand in our area and then blame the area for that. Sometimes you should match your qualifications to the needs of your area instead of expecting your area to accomodate you. For example I had always wanted to become an urban planner, but that degree would be useless around here, where planning is non-existent. Instead I chose Accounting as my major. Even though I hate this field with a passion, I know that obtaining my CPA will be a ticket to a stable position around here that will permit me to live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle. High school students should choose an area they wish to live in and then major in an area that is projected to grow in demand so that they'll have plenty of opportunities available for when they graduate. Look at all of the high-paying RN positions with high starting bonuses and wages there are in NEPA. Nevertheless, the common complaint here is "I can't find a job." I'm sure you're capable of going to nursing school. Trucking firms are perpetually hiring those with CDLs. I know many truckers who make $50,000 or more per year, along with mileage reimbursement. That's not too shabby for someone who doesn't have a degree.

Would I move to Phoenix with a degree in ski resort management? Of course not. Would someone move to Gary, IN with a degree in hotel management? Nope. There ARE high-paying jobs here for those who match the needs of employers.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:11 PM
 
13 posts, read 31,620 times
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[quote=ScrantonWilkesBarre;2243595]
I think a lot of people simply major in the fields that aren't in demand in our area and then blame the area for that. Sometimes you should match your qualifications to the needs of your area instead of expecting your area to accomodate you. For example I had always wanted to become an urban planner, but that degree would be useless around here, where planning is non-existent. Instead I chose Accounting as my major. Even though I hate this field with a passion, I know that obtaining my CPA will be a ticket to a stable position around here that will permit me to live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle. High school students should choose an area they wish to live in and then major in an area that is projected to grow in demand so that they'll have plenty of opportunities available for when they graduate. Look at all of the high-paying RN positions with high starting bonuses and wages there are in NEPA. Nevertheless, the common complaint here is "I can't find a job." I'm sure you're capable of going to nursing school. Trucking firms are perpetually hiring those with CDLs. I know many truckers who make $50,000 or more per year, along with mileage reimbursement. That's not too shabby for someone who doesn't have a degree.


Why should someone live a miserable life doing something they do not enjoy when they can relocate and pursue their passion? Maybe NEPA is worth it to you, but for many of us I know it surely is not.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,247,404 times
Reputation: 19066
Quote:
Originally Posted by nis5017 View Post
Why should someone live a miserable life doing something they do not enjoy when they can relocate and pursue their passion? Maybe NEPA is worth it to you, but for many of us I know it surely is not.
Which is why I urge those who have majored in an underrepresented field in our area to move out instead of airing their grievances about NEPA 24/7. I decided that living here was more important to me than pursuing my true career aspirations. For others who want to follow their ideal career paths, by all means leave NEPA.
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