Wyoming Valley Mall Looks Great! (Allentown, Scranton: low crime, how much, hotel)

[Chefkey]

The last few weeks we have been in the Mall in Wilkes Barre and I have to say the renovations are just beautiful. The whole mall is very appealing and inviting. I have lived near much bigger Malls but they weren't as nice. When we first got to town the renovations were in midswing but now complete it is a really nice place to shop when too cold or hot to be outside.

The whole shopping hub around Wilkes Barre just looks very upscale in with the times. Good for us

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by Chefkey

The last few weeks we have been in the Mall in Wilkes Barre and I have to say the renovations are just beautiful. The whole mall is very appealing and inviting. I have lived near much bigger Malls but they weren't as nice. When we first got to town the renovations were in midswing but now complete it is a really nice place to shop when too cold or hot to be outside.

The whole shopping hub around Wilkes Barre just looks very upscale in with the times. Good for us

Good for Wilkes-Barre Township. Bad for Wilkes-Barre. If Wilkes-Barre were progressive, it would try to annex Wilkes-Barre Township. Of course, that would draw outcry from the township's 3,000 or so residents (most of whom live in Georgetown) who wouldn't want to be lumped together with the "big, bad city." Wilkes-Barre Township is one of the wealthiest (if not THE wealthiest) township in the region due to all of the commercial growth. My native Pittston Township is not far behind now with all of the industrial growth.

Wilkes-Barre's residents leave the city en masse to shop at the township's stores, eat at the township's restaurants, etc. Meanwhile, you don't see residents from the township (or other suburbs for that matter) filling that gap by heading into Wilkes-Barre to shop/dine downtown. The time for Wilkes-Barre to annex Wilkes-Barre Township is LONG overdue. There is no reason why a county of 300,000 residents needs 76 different municipalities, most of which have under 5,000 residents. This duplication of services does nothing but needlessly zap taxpayers. After all, if there's a fire right now at the Wegman's in Wilkes-Barre Township, you can bet your rear-end that Wilkes-Barre City's F.D. will be rushing to assist, and vice-versa.

Wilkes-Barre benefits in no way, shape, or form from Wilkes-Barre Township (save for the arena, which attracts tourists who might not otherwise come here). I'm personally not "wowed" by Starbucks, Best Buy, Lowe's, Wal-Mart, Target, Pier 1, Barnes & Noble, etc. because you can find these same exact retail venues in Dickson City (or ANY suburban area of this nation for that matter). I happen to think the retail sprawl in Wilkes-Barre Township is MUCH better planned than it is in Dickson City; traffic up there snarls due to poor connectivity between different shopping areas while traffic down here snarls because a larger population base is served. Wilkes-Barre Township looks just like Dickson City. Dickson City looks just like Vestal, NY. Vestal, NY looks just like the Macarthur Road district near Allentown. You see the point I'm trying to make?

Wilkes-Barre City doesn't see a dime of the money Wilkes-Barre Township makes. As a former employee in the township, I was outraged that I was zapped $52 for no traffic cops (I was stuck in gridlock routinely) while residents of the township received tax rebates. We were zapped $52 for the "priviledge" of working in that township, but to this day I have yet to see any benefit of working there over any other community in the region.

I apologize in advance for my rant; Wilkes-Barre Township to me is just some place that should NOT be celebrated at the expense of our much-declined downtown. Newcomers won't be impressed by a Wal-Mart or a Cracker Barrel (and if they are they're sad people). They'll be impressed if Wilkes-Barre has a vibrant, thriving downtown core with specialty shops, ethnic restaurants, tree-lined streets, low crime, etc. After all, EVERY city in America can lay claim to having at least one retail sprawl district (Pittston has Pittston Township, Scranton has both Dickson City and Montage Mountain, Clarks Summit has South Abington Township, etc.) However, MOST cities can NOT lay claim to having a gorgeous walkable downtown atmosphere that Lewisburg, Honesdale, Tunkhannock, West Pittston, etc. have. Scranton's getting there. Wilkes-Barre was zooming right up there but has now plateaued (I'm beginning to even think the Hotel Sterling project has fallen through now since I have seen NO progress there in many, many months).

Once again, Chefkey, this rant wasn't aimed at you. I just hate how tiny little townships like Wilkes-Barre Township can act as parasites to drain vitality out of cores like Wilkes-Barre City. If you want to see this in a better scale, contrast Main Street in Pittston to the upcoming mall/big-box areas of Highway 315 in Pittston Township. It's sickening how much land is being wasted to make way for MORE chain stores while a nearby downtown core that once had so much potential is now long beyond salvation (hence why I dissolved my short-lived Pittston 2020 effort several years ago). Do you want Wilkes-Barre to become the next Pittston?

[Chefkey]

I understand your feelings SWB. My belief is that however unfortunate it may be, modern times seem to favor these shopping hubs which are appearing everywhere. There is more parking and shopping is therefore more convenient.

I think the downtown still has very much to offer. When the riverside project finishes the area will be attractive I believe for housing the college students as well as permanent residents. There are and will be more shops like Barnes and Noble but the area's regrowth needs to focus on parks and such. When people want to shop they will go to the township. Yes by the way, I think it is absurd that these two areas are not combined income wise.

[Summering]

Originally Posted by Chefkey

I understand your feelings SWB. My belief is that however unfortunate it may be, modern times seem to favor these shopping hubs which are appearing everywhere. There is more parking and shopping is therefore more convenient.

I think the downtown still has very much to offer. When the riverside project finishes the area will be attractive I believe for housing the college students as well as permanent residents. There are and will be more shops like Barnes and Noble but the area's regrowth needs to focus on parks and such. When people want to shop they will go to the township. Yes by the way, I think it is absurd that these two areas are not combined income wise.

I agree with you Chef.........The need for these stores is evident.
I so wish we had more stores in Brodheadsville.
There is nothing like curling up with a few books in Barnes and Nobles while trying to figure which ones you'd like to bring home.
Pier One is my favorite for dishes and home accessories.
Can't beat Walmart for some good pricing. Like it or not.........they have the good prices in this economy that we need. Have to save somewhere, it certainly won't be in heat cost nor gas prices.
I do think town planners need to invest time in green areas, and parks.
They have to leave the mountains alone.
The only sad to me about Dickson City, is that a mountain was stripped for it.
I have to again say, I adore every moment spent at that shopping area.
There is a great mix of stores of every type.
I am hoping that that Sam's Club is as good as Vestals, in New York, because the one in Easton, hardly compares to Vestals.
Great planning in towns, beautification committees, and historic committees, are essential to progress.
Most of us who own homes that need the Lowes, Home Depot, and Raymour and Flanagins are glad the stores are indeed close by.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by Summering

I agree with you Chef.........The need for these stores is evident.
I so wish we had more stores in Brodheadsville.
There is nothing like curling up with a few books in Barnes and Nobles while trying to figure which ones you'd like to bring home.
Pier One is my favorite for dishes and home accessories.
Can't beat Walmart for some good pricing. Like it or not.........they have the good prices in this economy that we need. Have to save somewhere, it certainly won't be in heat cost nor gas prices.
I do think town planners need to invest time in green areas, and parks.
They have to leave the mountains alone.
The only sad to me about Dickson City, is that a mountain was stripped for it.
I have to again say, I adore every moment spent at that shopping area.
There is a great mix of stores of every type.
I am hoping that that Sam's Club is as good as Vestals, in New York, because the one in Easton, hardly compares to Vestals.
Great planning in towns, beautification committees, and historic committees, are essential to progress.
Most of us who own homes that need the Lowes, Home Depot, and Raymour and Flanagins are glad the stores are indeed close by.

I'm not saying there's no demand (or even benefit) from these massive chain store districts in Dickson City or Wilkes-Barre Township. Many decent-paying jobs are provided, and (at least in the case of Wilkes-Barre Township), folks driving by on I-81 think Wilkes-Barre now looks twice as large as it really is. However, that benefit should be extended to encompass those host municipalities (Scranton and Wilkes-Barre) that are collapsing due to that success.

I merely advocate that since these two chain areas are draining the life out of our two cities that they should be encouraged to give back in some way, shape, or form. To date the only examples of this I can think of are the opening of a second Barnes & Noble in Downtown Wilkes-Barre and the fact that Wal-Mart made a donation to help with the tree house project at Nay Aug Park. Otherwise most of these corporations just suck up customers' dollars back to their corporate headquarters in Charlotte, Minneapolis, Seattle, or wherever and then don't give it back to the community.

If Wilkes-Barre received all of the tax revenues that were pouring into Wilkes-Barre Township by annexing it, the city would improve overnight as elected officials used the extra several million dollars annually to improve Coal Street Park, promote urban forestry, expand the street scape system, hire more police to patrol city streets, etc. Instead, Wilkes-Barre city doesn't see one dime of this revenue while its residents also flee en masse to shop and dine in the township. It's just a drain on the system.

For what it's worth, I've done roughly half of my shopping this year at local independent merchants, especially in Downtown Scranton and Downtown Wilkes-Barre. The other half I HAD to do in the suburbs because in the case of electronics, for example, I can't name many local retailers other than Best Buy, Circuit City, GameStop, EB, etc. in W-B Twp. I'm an advocate of keeping the dollars I spend in the local community whenever possible. When you shop at mom-and-pops, that happens. When you shop at big-box retailers, that money just disappears.

[Summering]

I really do love Mom and Pop stores too. My sister owned a wonderful invitation store down the shore.
But, I guess I spread my wings to all different areas. I use the internet a lot too.
I like to get unusual things from Ebay ( helping some Mom and Pop usually in some state) and I like to also use Amazon and both large and small stores.
I'm sure most of it doesn't help the tax structure, but...........whats one to do?
I'll take a Barnes and Nobles here, Please!!!
Its a big world out there, and I like to compare pricing and get the best price.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by Summering

I really do love Mom and Pop stores too. My sister owned a wonderful invitation store down the shore.
But, I guess I spread my wings to all different areas. I use the internet a lot too.
I like to get unusual things from Ebay ( helping some Mom and Pop usually in some state) and I like to also use Amazon and both large and small stores.
I'm sure most of it doesn't help the tax structure, but...........whats one to do?
I'll take a Barnes and Nobles here, Please!!!
Its a big world out there, and I like to compare pricing and get the best price.

Didn't you just get a Border's?

[Chefkey]

Originally Posted by SWB

I'm not saying there's no demand (or even benefit) from these massive chain store districts in Dickson City or Wilkes-Barre Township. Many decent-paying jobs are provided, and (at least in the case of Wilkes-Barre Township), folks driving by on I-81 think Wilkes-Barre now looks twice as large as it really is. However, that benefit should be extended to encompass those host municipalities (Scranton and Wilkes-Barre) that are collapsing due to that success.

I merely advocate that since these two chain areas are draining the life out of our two cities that they should be encouraged to give back in some way, shape, or form. To date the only examples of this I can think of are the opening of a second Barnes & Noble in Downtown Wilkes-Barre and the fact that Wal-Mart made a donation to help with the tree house project at Nay Aug Park. Otherwise most of these corporations just suck up customers' dollars back to their corporate headquarters in Charlotte, Minneapolis, Seattle, or wherever and then don't give it back to the community.

If Wilkes-Barre received all of the tax revenues that were pouring into Wilkes-Barre Township by annexing it, the city would improve overnight as elected officials used the extra several million dollars annually to improve Coal Street Park, promote urban forestry, expand the street scape system, hire more police to patrol city streets, etc. Instead, Wilkes-Barre city doesn't see one dime of this revenue while its residents also flee en masse to shop and dine in the township. It's just a drain on the system.

For what it's worth, I've done roughly half of my shopping this year at local independent merchants, especially in Downtown Scranton and Downtown Wilkes-Barre. The other half I HAD to do in the suburbs because in the case of electronics, for example, I can't name many local retailers other than Best Buy, Circuit City, GameStop, EB, etc. in W-B Twp. I'm an advocate of keeping the dollars I spend in the local community whenever possible. When you shop at mom-and-pops, that happens. When you shop at big-box retailers, that money just disappears.

SWB, you make an interesting point about the independent owners as compared to Bill Walton and Danny Wegman. The small shop guys are living here and will put money back into the area while The Waltons and Wegmans take their money and run. Still, I believe without this huge and successful shopping hub Wilkes Barre would be worse off. We just need to hope for the Colleges to keep expanding in the downtown area which will take up some of the empty space there.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by Chefkey

SWB, you make an interesting point about the independent owners as compared to Bill Walton and Danny Wegman. The small shop guys are living here and will put money back into the area while The Waltons and Wegmans take their money and run. Still, I believe without this huge and successful shopping hub Wilkes Barre would be worse off. We just need to hope for the Colleges to keep expanding in the downtown area which will take up some of the empty space there.

It's nice to see that you see value in the colleges. In Scranton they absolutely hate both the University of Scranton and the upcoming Commonwealth Medical College. They just don't see the long-range benefits that having such high-profile universities in their city can have for them. King's and Wilkes bring much more to Wilkes-Barre than they suck out of it. Trust me.

[Selena Cross]

I grew up in W-B Twp and moved away in 1982. I returned last month for a reunion and did not recognize much of the area. That whole area that is now W-B Commons along I-81 used to be a culm bank with birch trees growing out of it.

I checked out of the Hilton Garden Inn glancing up at mountain where my mom and I used to pick huckleberries.

Oh, yeah, I still remember the W-B drive-in on 309 (now Sam's Club), and Miracle Mart (now home of some car dealership.) I know I'm really dating myself!!

I also lived in the Poconos for a few years. For the lady in Brodheadsville who wants a B&N, don't forget...B&N will NEVER come in by itself...it will always come in with lots of other stores...like Target, Pet Smart, Office Max, Marshalls, Michaels, etc. Bye bye Brodheadsville! It will now look like everyplace else.