Yikes: $2.85 a gallon (real estate, apartment, rent)

[I LOVE PA!]

thecoalman....very interesting!
I don't see why anyone sohuld consider your post spam...you are helping fellow Pennsylvanian's. That is what this board is for!
So...can you tell me about the cleanliness of coal heat? Any residue? Dust? How is it for asthmatics and allergy sufferers? I am interested to know? Is there a big 'clean up' of the stove? Where do you store a ton of coal? I guess rodents don't like coal...a big plus in my book!

[thecoalman]

Well being the admin of a couple forums myself when some guy pops in and posts a link for first post the first thing I think is spam. Anyhow the forum can be found here: Anthracite Coal Forum

As far as dust goes that can be can be an issue but if you're careful and take few precautions or consider that fact and plan for it you can negate most of it or eliminate it altogether. Most of the dust is related to moving the coal to the stove and removal of the ashes. Some of the units are placed right in living rooms so it certainly is problem with them. Not so much if you place it in a unfinished isolated area of your basement or in some cases people have built small outbuildings to house them.

Dust from the coal can be eliminated by purchasing "oiled" coal. The coal has a light misting of vegetable oil applied, this is usually a few bucks extra and isn't available everywhere. Other ways of controlling it is by simply dampening it with a garden type sprayer with water before moving it, it doesn't matter if it's wet. Matter of fact any delivery you do get will be at least damp to control the dust during delivery, it's wet to begin with because its washed prior to delivery, it's stored outside, and/or water is major part of the processing used from start to finish.

Maintenance varies by stove and usage and can range from once a month to yearly. Most of the maintenance revolves around clearing out the fly ash that will accumulate from burning. This will gather on any internal flat surface like a horizontal flue pipe. This usually consists of taking the flue pipe apart and cleaning out any other passages within the stove/furnace. You will also have this accumulated in the bottom part of your chimney (there are direct vent models to which this wouldn't apply), the vertical part of the chimney itself rarely needs any maintenance and can go years without being cleaned. There is no build up on surfaces like creosote as you would have with wood, the fly ash is the only thing that is produced. It can be vacuumed out if necessary. If you're running a stoker there is usually parts that will need lubrication such as pumps and the drive motors. Overall its about 1 hour job, most of which involves taking apart and reassembling the flue pipe.

Generally you are going to purchase more than one ton at a time, most have minimum delivery of 2 ton locally and if you're out in the middle of nowhere you may have to purchase more to make it worth the trip for a lot of bulk dealers that deliver. You could always pick it up yourself.

It can be purchased in 40lb. bags but is generally double the price compared to bulk. In bulk 1 ton requires approximately 40 cubic feet of space. A box 4X4X8 will hold about 3 ton. Coal can be stored anywhere, even on the ground outside if necessary. Most try and store it as close to the heating unit as possible for convenience. If for example you have a furnace in the basement your going to want to build a bin next to the furnace. In our case we have auger fed furnace, the auger goes right into the bin. Inside the bin is 55 gallon drum we use as hopper. It has to be filled about every 3 or 4 days when its really cold. Coal is right there, just shovel it right in. Providing you have adequate space and relatively easy access to where you want the coal, a competent delivery person with the right equipment delivery time is usually very quick believe it or not. BTU for BTU you can do it faster than a oil delivery under the right circumstances. I don't deliver anymore myself but I used to amaze people how easily it could be done, even after getting it delivered by someone else for years. Yea, I'm bragging but I'm good and I know it. :P


Rodents or other critters don't like it but domestic dogs and cats may be a problem: My Dog Eats Coal

[businezguy]

I have some good news, and i have some bad news.

The good news is you won't have to wait for people to consume less energy, the free market is a far better arbiteur of fixing issues like this than is any individual action or movement. Mostly due to the housing crises (it is a crises, and could be far more serious than any of us know, myself included), but also due to inflation caused by the decline of the dollar, and high energy costs, this nation is in, or headed for a recession. It's hard to determine HOW deep this recession will be, and currently it doesn't look like it will be that deep, but the recovery will be a challenging and slow one.

Translation:

Due to job loss, home loss, less driving, less use of heating oil, and less consumption of products, oil prices will go down. The argument that China will keep up oil prices due to their consumption won't hold true because WE are the reason for China's consuption, and we'll get revenge by bring them down with us and the correction will most likely be far worse for them.

So China will kill the goose that laid the golden egg and while some dependance on their products will continue, more purchases will be made from the US because our products will become more competitive, and we'll export more, and the value of the dollar will go up

The combination of the dollar going up combined with the reduction or even steady use of oil will bring these prices down. In FACT, if we go into a larger recession, we'll have a similar effect to 9/11 where gas prices will go down SO much that oil companies may have severe reductions in profits, or we might even get revenge by delivering losses to them that match their huge profits over the past three years.

Sure these circumstances will harm a lot of Americans (perhaps myself included), but misery loves company, and we'll be sticking it to all of the folks who have been sticking it to us for so long. In a manner of speaking, that's a very English way of getting revenge.

By the way, I predicted the decline in housing, and the upcoming recessing a couple of years ago (was only surprised they didn't happen sooner), so my record is pretty decent. You may save this post, and call me a liar if all of this doesn't happen over the next 5 years.

[I LOVE PA!]

colaman...
Thanks for your very detailed explanation and answers to my questions. Since heating costs are an issue for many, it is good to konw that we have cheaper alternatives.

[TERMINOLOGY]

We had an Alaska Stoker for 17 years. It heated our whole house. We had it in the living room. I cut regusters into my daughters room upstairs and it heated most of the house. We had oil, forced air back up. We would spend $800 tops to heat an 1800 suare foot house, 2 floors.

The coal is dusty. I purchased a small sears shop vac. When I would load the hopper with a 5 gallon pail of coal, I would turn on the vac, and catch the dust. Got 95% of it probably. I also purchase the coal with the oil, and also wet down the buckets. We got about as much dust, as road dust. We still get that now in the City.

Not a job for a weakling. A 5 gallon bucket prbably weighs 30-40lbs. You need to know where the ashes are going to go also. I had a gravel drive, and found filling holes a good way to get rid of.

[businezguy]

Let me also clarify by saying that this summer should see higher oil/gas prices, but not as much as so many are predicting (we will not see $4 oil prices) and if there was a terrorist attack, that could actually bring oil prices down since this nation is having such a problem with their economy already.

Point is, for the next 9 months, this issue will probably continue, and than....well, let's just say I wouldn't want to keep my investment in oil come the fall, especially if the temperature is neither hot or cold.

[thecoalman]

40lbs. in 5 gallon bucket but you could just fill it half way. We were discussing on my forum different methods and its certainly possible to set it up so you don't have to touch the coal once its delivered but that would require a very high basement and a auger fed stoker.

Ashes are also a concern but most garbage men will take them, some have a special once a year fee. In our case the borough takes them so we are fortunate.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by businezguy

Let me also clarify by saying that this summer should see higher oil/gas prices, but not as much as so many are predicting (we will not see $4 oil prices) .

Even if it's $1.50 a gallon you're still saving. Would have to drop to less than a $1 a gallon to compete with coal.

[businezguy]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Even if it's $1.50 a gallon you're still saving. Would have to drop to less than a $1 a gallon to compete with coal.

To coal yes, but not to everything else. It will go back to the old days. As I'm sure you know, due to your name, coal has always been cheaper, and hasn't been used because of it's reputation for being a developing countries crutch, and for being so severly polluting, as to actually have even proponents of free enterprise have a distaste for it.

With that said, as you've pointed out, technology evolves. Diesel engines are becoming cheaper, and so are means of burning coal. I'm not debating with you in particular, I'm just pointing out that high oil prices are temporary.

By the way, with the way things are today, it may be highly unlikely, but gas prices could ever well go below $1 per gallon if this nation goes into a severe depression, or if psychological factors come into play that can't be predicted.

Everybody made the same mistake with thinking that house prices would always rise at 15 percent per year. If oil were to continue the same rise it is today, 5 years from now it would be $92 per gallon or so. There would obviously be no economy to support that, and even Bill Gate's investments would tank, and he's be second guessing his house in the Hamptons.

Personally, if/when I buy a house in the Poconos, I will consider burning coal to heat. Frankly I'll probably hedge my bets, but a house with electric, invest in a coal burning heating system, get a wood burning stove (actually get a house that comes with one), and perhaps another relatively cheap way of heat.

That may you aren't dependant on any one thing. Honestly, that would be the smart way for new homes to be built. That may there will be choice in the market place, and even rural areas will be able to keep providers of energy competing with each other.

[susquehannock]

I'm actually surprised people are not more mad.

You have to realize. Many folks have been conditioned to accept it. They've been using the 'frog in the hot water' method for several years.

There's two trillion barrels of oil-shale in the Midwest and the government won't allow it to be touched. That's enough oil for the U.S. to self sufficient for over 200 years.

There are also vast oil deposits off the coast that are capped. Again, government regulations.

Ron Paul revolution

I agree but the media isn't finished with him yet. He's a huge threat to the status quo. By the time the brainwashing is finished, they'll talk millions out of voting for him just as they did with Perot.