scranton living? (Philadelphia, Wilkes-Barre, Back Mountain: credit, property taxes, transplants)

[deanow30]

Is this a nice place to live?

[TERMINOLOGY]

Yes
__________

[ScranBarre]

Here's the city proper of Scranton in a nutshell. I'll start off with the negatives first so people stop assuming I'm not providing folks with a "fair-and-balanced" view.

CONS:

-The city's wage tax is 3.4%, which puts it at the highest in the region. This wage tax is very oppressive and has been stifling residential growth. I've honestly spoken to people who said they would have moved their families to Scranton if the wage tax were lower.

-The city's administration has led the city into deep long-term debt. While the budget in 2008 will be balanced without tax increases, borrowing to cover borrowing to cover borrowing is, in my opinion, the coward's way of raising taxes as they just force their successors to raise taxes in order to FINALLY get the city to be fiscally solvent. The city's portion of the overall property tax bill rose 25% annually for the past few years to help balance the budget. While some make that out to seem rather drastic, you must also keep things in perspective---taxes were increased to put Scranton "in-line" with other communities' property taxes. They are NOT the "highest in the area" as less-researched folks would lead you to believe. Mayor Doherty seems to be attempting to adhere to Richard Florida's philosophies of the "creative class" very strictly, even though Scranton doesn't have the potential to become "yuppified" for at least another decade, when I expect more NY/NJ transplants to finally come to town. As a result the mayor has spent WAY too much money laying the groundwork for an influx of yuppies that won't materialize for years.

-The city's administration has repeatedly shown that it doesn't value its public safety personnel. I believe the city's police officers and fire fighters have not received a raise since 2002 (WeLuvPA can correct me if I'm mistaken). I, and most others in and around the city (I live in a nearby suburb myself) feel as if Scranton's public safety personnel are amongst the finest in the state, and it is a blatant slap in the face for them to not be compensated what they're worth, especially as national inflation continues to occur.

-Many people in the city are bitter, angry people (at least the ones I've come across). They have trouble differentiating between someone supporting the city at-large and someone supporting the unpopular mayoral administration. I myself am often vehemently debated against because these people (known as the Legion of Doom) are too unintelligent to discern between being pro-mayor and pro-city. I fail to see why you can't be like me---thinking the city is a wonderful place to live DESPITE the mayor, not because of him. To see some of Scranton's finest bellyachers in action, check out DohertyDeceit . These "the sky is falling" types of people grate on the nerves of those of us who think the city's future is bright---not bleak. They head to city council meetings weekly simply to call elected officials names and detract from city business. Granted some of them (including WeLuvPA) have LEGITIMATE grievances against a rather inept city government, but by and large when they start name-calling I stop respecting what they have to say, as do most other "non-Doomers."

-The public infrastructure in the city is very outdated and archaic. There are potholes littering many city streets, and several downtown streets don't even have lanes painted on them so out-of-towners (including myself) just try to guess where the lanes are SUPPOSED to be and keep our fingers crossed. We're constantly hearing about water main breaks and mine subsidences occurring here, but then again that is also the case for Dunmore, Pittston, Old Forge, and many other nearby older communities too.

Now that the "bad" is out of the way, I'll return to my favorite past-time of promoting the city's quality of life, much to the chagrin of WeLuvPA, Greentown, and others who tire of my incessant pro-city ranting and raving.

PROS:

-Firefighter Capt. James Robeson was recently killed tragically when he was electrocuted in the line of duty. Of course that's tragic, but if any "silver lining" can be observed from his death it was how the entire city pulled together as a community to console one another and to attempt to east the grief experienced by this fallen hero's family, friends, and brothers in the fire department. While people helping people in times of tragedy is evident everywhere, not just Scranton, I'm always impressed by how much further Electric City residents go to rise "above and beyond" their call of duty to take care of their own. Another good example of this is the Deacon Street Promise, a coalition of neighbors who most recently banded together to help fire victims near them. If a child is diagnosed with leukemia, you can bet your life's savings that his or her Scranton neighborhood will throw a spaghetti dinner, pancake breakfast, dance, etc. to help raise money to help the family cover medical costs. It's this sense of people truly caring about people other than themselves that has attracted me the most to Scranton. In my current suburban neighborhood people turn their heads away when you drive by instead of waving. Several Scranton neighborhoods, including WeLuvPA's, hold annual block parties as well. There still indeed is that small town, unified spirit in Scranton that has largely gone out of fashion on a national level.

-The architecture in the city is outstanding. I have yet to talk to a visitor I brought to the city who didn't make a comment about the historic structures in town. Green Ridge and The Hill are the city's two prominent historic residential neighborhoods while the downtown (with the exception of a few botches like the Mall at Steamtown) largely has a historic ambience as well. Check out my photo tours of the city sometime to get a better sense of the beauty in the city's architecture that you just can't find in our cookie-cutter suburbs.

-Scranton's neighborhoods might pale in comparison to Greenwich Village or Center City Philadelphia, but there is still a sense of walkability in many parts of town. Many streets have sidewalks, and several neighborhoods have tree lawns to keep pedestrians shaded (South Side is the next neighborhood in line for a major vegetation overhaul). From my future home in the city's Lower Hill neighborhood I'll be able to walk to churches, banks, restaurants, bars, the library, two college campuses, an upcoming medical school, two hospitals, the downtown mall, and hopefully my future employer's offices. My partner will be able to walk our children to and from school. Where I live now---in a small sidewalk-less subdivision along a busy four-lane yet sidewalk-less AND shoulder-less highway---we can't safely walk to anything, even the Wendy's which is within spitting distance of our homes.
While many local suburbs/exurbs have been poorly planned in favor of autocentricity, Scranton's neighborhood's were planned with being able to walk to different areas in mind. Today's suburbanites freak out when even just a bank or grocery store wants to move near to them, hence why NEPA's suburbs are largely home to people glued to their vehicles 24/7 (a lifestyle I currently abhor).

-Scranton is routinely ranked amongst the nation's safest cities. I believe our metropolitan area (which includes Wilkes-Barre, which ironically has a higher crime rate with 30,000 fewer residents), we were ranked the 59th-safest large metropolitan area out of like 400 surveyed. I've walked all over the city for my photo tours, even through the "sketchy" areas of the Hill and South Side, yet I have never once felt threatned. The city had 1 murder in 2005, 0 in 2006, and 2 in 2007. I likewise predict just 1 or 2 in 2008. These murders were all lowlife-oriented too; criminals here don't just gun down innocent bystanders for the hell of it. Why should they?

-Scranton's housing is VERY affordable by national standards, albeit not as much of a bargain as it used to be in the 1990s. As much as many folks (including myself) think the mayor has made mistakes, he has still done something right if property values in the city have risen so steadily for the past several years. A home that might have sold for $89,900 in 1997 is now selling for $129,900 today. A $40,000 appreciation over the course of the decade might not seem like much, but it is actually a higher appreciation than many other similarly-sized Rust Belt cities. You can still find a nice 3-bedroom, 1.5-bath home on a typical 50' x 150' city lot for around $120,000. You can't say that for many areas to our east and south.

-The downtown, contrary to what many naysayers will tell you, is on the verge of a renaissance. I hope to purchase a small home or half-duplex myself in the Lower Hill in a couple of years so that I can enjoy its appreciation as the adjacent downtown improves. By 2015 there will be a commuter rail line linking Downtown Scranton to Hoboken, NJ. The new medical school will be completed. Wall Street West will have enticed a half-dozen or so financial firms to establish branches here. The nightlife scene will continue to improve as entrepreneurs seek to capitalize upon the three campuses within blocks of each other.

-The city's schools (from what I've been told) are actually quite good for an inner-city public school district. Academic performance here is in line with many of the suburban districts and even better than some, even though it pales still to the most affluent areas like Abington Heights and North Pocono. Scranton has small neighborhood elementary schools and is still the kind of city where parents can feel safe walking them to and from school everyday. The city is home to Scranton Prep, which behind Wyoming Seminary and MMI Prep, both of which are located in Luzerne County, is probably the best private high school in the region.

-The city is home to an impressive array of annual events that include (but are not limited to):

Scranton Jazz Festival
Jewish Film Festival
Electric City Film Festival
Steamtown Marathon
La Festa Italiana
Susan G. Komen Race for the Cure
Scranton Jaycees Santa Parade
Armed Services Parade
St. Patrick's Day Parade
"The Office" Convention
Villa Capri Cruisers Car Show
Nay Aug Park Holiday Light Show
St. Ann's Novena
First Fridays
Cocktails in the City
Everhart After Dark
St. Joseph's Center Festival
...and many more!


I can't guarantee that you'd like living here. The best advice I could give you would be to take a three-day weekend during the Spring or Summer and stay at the downtown Radisson Hotel. From here you can explore the city on foot and get a good "feel" for it. Chat with people at local stores to see what they say about the city (good and bad). Watch a Scranton City Council meeting on Channel 61. Eat at mom-and-pop restaurants. Totally immerse yourself in the "Scranton experience" and then make an informed decision. It's hard to say who will like it here and who will hate it. One member lives in the Upper Hill of Scranton and is miserable living near drug activity. Another member lives only blocks away and loves it.

In any event welcome to the forum (and potentially to our region!)

[deanow30]

Thanks very much for your help!

[coartist88]

Originally Posted by SWB

Here's the city proper of Scranton in a nutshell. I'll start off with the negatives first so people stop assuming I'm not providing folks with a "fair-and-balanced" view.

CONS:

-The city's wage tax is 3.4%, which puts it at the highest in the region. This wage tax is very oppressive and has been stifling residential growth. I've honestly spoken to people who said they would have moved their families to Scranton if the wage tax were lower.

-The city's administration has led the city into deep long-term debt. While the budget in 2008 will be balanced without tax increases, borrowing to cover borrowing to cover borrowing is, in my opinion, the coward's way of raising taxes as they just force their successors to raise taxes in order to FINALLY get the city to be fiscally solvent. The city's portion of the overall property tax bill rose 25% annually for the past few years to help balance the budget. While some make that out to seem rather drastic, you must also keep things in perspective---taxes were increased to put Scranton "in-line" with other communities' property taxes. They are NOT the "highest in the area" as less-researched folks would lead you to believe. Mayor Doherty seems to be attempting to adhere to Richard Florida's philosophies of the "creative class" very strictly, even though Scranton doesn't have the potential to become "yuppified" for at least another decade, when I expect more NY/NJ transplants to finally come to town. As a result the mayor has spent WAY too much money laying the groundwork for an influx of yuppies that won't materialize for years.

-The city's administration has repeatedly shown that it doesn't value its public safety personnel. I believe the city's police officers and fire fighters have not received a raise since 2002 (WeLuvPA can correct me if I'm mistaken). I, and most others in and around the city (I live in a nearby suburb myself) feel as if Scranton's public safety personnel are amongst the finest in the state, and it is a blatant slap in the face for them to not be compensated what they're worth, especially as national inflation continues to occur.

-Many people in the city are bitter, angry people (at least the ones I've come across). They have trouble differentiating between someone supporting the city at-large and someone supporting the unpopular mayoral administration. I myself am often vehemently debated against because these people (known as the Legion of Doom) are too unintelligent to discern between being pro-mayor and pro-city. I fail to see why you can't be like me---thinking the city is a wonderful place to live DESPITE the mayor, not because of him. To see some of Scranton's finest bellyachers in action, check out DohertyDeceit . These "the sky is falling" types of people grate on the nerves of those of us who think the city's future is bright---not bleak. They head to city council meetings weekly simply to call elected officials names and detract from city business. Granted some of them (including WeLuvPA) have LEGITIMATE grievances against a rather inept city government, but by and large when they start name-calling I stop respecting what they have to say, as do most other "non-Doomers."

-The public infrastructure in the city is very outdated and archaic. There are potholes littering many city streets, and several downtown streets don't even have lanes painted on them so out-of-towners (including myself) just try to guess where the lanes are SUPPOSED to be and keep our fingers crossed. We're constantly hearing about water main breaks and mine subsidences occurring here, but then again that is also the case for Dunmore, Pittston, Old Forge, and many other nearby older communities too.

Now that the "bad" is out of the way, I'll return to my favorite past-time of promoting the city's quality of life, much to the chagrin of WeLuvPA, Greentown, and others who tire of my incessant pro-city ranting and raving.

PROS:

-Firefighter Capt. James Robeson was recently killed tragically when he was electrocuted in the line of duty. Of course that's tragic, but if any "silver lining" can be observed from his death it was how the entire city pulled together as a community to console one another and to attempt to east the grief experienced by this fallen hero's family, friends, and brothers in the fire department. While people helping people in times of tragedy is evident everywhere, not just Scranton, I'm always impressed by how much further Electric City residents go to rise "above and beyond" their call of duty to take care of their own. Another good example of this is the Deacon Street Promise, a coalition of neighbors who most recently banded together to help fire victims near them. If a child is diagnosed with leukemia, you can bet your life's savings that his or her Scranton neighborhood will throw a spaghetti dinner, pancake breakfast, dance, etc. to help raise money to help the family cover medical costs. It's this sense of people truly caring about people other than themselves that has attracted me the most to Scranton. In my current suburban neighborhood people turn their heads away when you drive by instead of waving. Several Scranton neighborhoods, including WeLuvPA's, hold annual block parties as well. There still indeed is that small town, unified spirit in Scranton that has largely gone out of fashion on a national level.

-The architecture in the city is outstanding. I have yet to talk to a visitor I brought to the city who didn't make a comment about the historic structures in town. Green Ridge and The Hill are the city's two prominent historic residential neighborhoods while the downtown (with the exception of a few botches like the Mall at Steamtown) largely has a historic ambience as well. Check out my photo tours of the city sometime to get a better sense of the beauty in the city's architecture that you just can't find in our cookie-cutter suburbs.

-Scranton's neighborhoods might pale in comparison to Greenwich Village or Center City Philadelphia, but there is still a sense of walkability in many parts of town. Many streets have sidewalks, and several neighborhoods have tree lawns to keep pedestrians shaded (South Side is the next neighborhood in line for a major vegetation overhaul). From my future home in the city's Lower Hill neighborhood I'll be able to walk to churches, banks, restaurants, bars, the library, two college campuses, an upcoming medical school, two hospitals, the downtown mall, and hopefully my future employer's offices. My partner will be able to walk our children to and from school. Where I live now---in a small sidewalk-less subdivision along a busy four-lane yet sidewalk-less AND shoulder-less highway---we can't safely walk to anything, even the Wendy's which is within spitting distance of our homes.
While many local suburbs/exurbs have been poorly planned in favor of autocentricity, Scranton's neighborhood's were planned with being able to walk to different areas in mind. Today's suburbanites freak out when even just a bank or grocery store wants to move near to them, hence why NEPA's suburbs are largely home to people glued to their vehicles 24/7 (a lifestyle I currently abhor).

-Scranton is routinely ranked amongst the nation's safest cities. I believe our metropolitan area (which includes Wilkes-Barre, which ironically has a higher crime rate with 30,000 fewer residents), we were ranked the 59th-safest large metropolitan area out of like 400 surveyed. I've walked all over the city for my photo tours, even through the "sketchy" areas of the Hill and South Side, yet I have never once felt threatned. The city had 1 murder in 2005, 0 in 2006, and 2 in 2007. I likewise predict just 1 or 2 in 2008. These murders were all lowlife-oriented too; criminals here don't just gun down innocent bystanders for the hell of it. Why should they?

-Scranton's housing is VERY affordable by national standards, albeit not as much of a bargain as it used to be in the 1990s. As much as many folks (including myself) think the mayor has made mistakes, he has still done something right if property values in the city have risen so steadily for the past several years. A home that might have sold for $89,900 in 1997 is now selling for $129,900 today. A $40,000 appreciation over the course of the decade might not seem like much, but it is actually a higher appreciation than many other similarly-sized Rust Belt cities. You can still find a nice 3-bedroom, 1.5-bath home on a typical 50' x 150' city lot for around $120,000. You can't say that for many areas to our east and south.

-The downtown, contrary to what many naysayers will tell you, is on the verge of a renaissance. I hope to purchase a small home or half-duplex myself in the Lower Hill in a couple of years so that I can enjoy its appreciation as the adjacent downtown improves. By 2015 there will be a commuter rail line linking Downtown Scranton to Hoboken, NJ. The new medical school will be completed. Wall Street West will have enticed a half-dozen or so financial firms to establish branches here. The nightlife scene will continue to improve as entrepreneurs seek to capitalize upon the three campuses within blocks of each other.

-The city's schools (from what I've been told) are actually quite good for an inner-city public school district. Academic performance here is in line with many of the suburban districts and even better than some, even though it pales still to the most affluent areas like Abington Heights and North Pocono. Scranton has small neighborhood elementary schools and is still the kind of city where parents can feel safe walking them to and from school everyday. The city is home to Scranton Prep, which behind Wyoming Seminary and MMI Prep, both of which are located in Luzerne County, is probably the best private high school in the region.

-The city is home to an impressive array of annual events that include (but are not limited to):

Scranton Jazz Festival
Jewish Film Festival
Electric City Film Festival
Steamtown Marathon
La Festa Italiana
Susan G. Komen Race for the Cure
Scranton Jaycees Santa Parade
Armed Services Parade
St. Patrick's Day Parade
"The Office" Convention
Villa Capri Cruisers Car Show
Nay Aug Park Holiday Light Show
St. Ann's Novena
First Fridays
Cocktails in the City
Everhart After Dark
St. Joseph's Center Festival
...and many more!


I can't guarantee that you'd like living here. The best advice I could give you would be to take a three-day weekend during the Spring or Summer and stay at the downtown Radisson Hotel. From here you can explore the city on foot and get a good "feel" for it. Chat with people at local stores to see what they say about the city (good and bad). Watch a Scranton City Council meeting on Channel 61. Eat at mom-and-pop restaurants. Totally immerse yourself in the "Scranton experience" and then make an informed decision. It's hard to say who will like it here and who will hate it. One member lives in the Upper Hill of Scranton and is miserable living near drug activity. Another member lives only blocks away and loves it.

In any event welcome to the forum (and potentially to our region!)

Dwight what would this forum be without you ! I salute you, you put alot of pride into this also the other recent threads of info you are a credit to to the state of PA and I appreciate all the valuable info, photo's you have posted during the past year "great job"

[weluvpa]

Don't stroke Paul's ego anymore then what is needed he still has to be able to fit his head in his car.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by coartist88

Dwight what would this forum be without you ! I salute you, you put alot of pride into this also the other recent threads of info you are a credit to to the state of PA and I appreciate all the valuable info, photo's you have posted during the past year "great job"

Flattery gets you nowhere... I like you moreso because you were willing to move here and give this region a chance to grow on you before immediately slamming it into the ground as some others I know have done. Keep those Abington-area pictures coming! I've already done Waverly, but if you want to do Dalton sometime this year that would be great.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Don't stroke Paul's ego anymore then what is needed he still has to be able to fit his head in his car.

Bear in mind it's a REALLY small car too! LOL!

[coartist88]

Originally Posted by SWB

Flattery gets you nowhere... I like you moreso because you were willing to move here and give this region a chance to grow on you before immediately slamming it into the ground as some others I know have done. Keep those Abington-area pictures coming! I've already done Waverly, but if you want to do Dalton sometime this year that would be great.

Dalton s nice, christy mathewson, the baseball player was from there, I would also like to do dunmore, I liked the old victorians when I passed thru to visit marywood university. My daughter has it narrowed down to marywood,bloomsburg, or king's, she will major in psychology, and writing
OH, AND I'M NOT STROKING ANYONE'S EGO, JUST STATING FACT!!

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by coartist88

Dalton s nice, christy mathewson, the baseball player was from there, I would also like to do dunmore, I liked the old victorians when I passed thru to visit marywood university. My daughter has it narrowed down to marywood,bloomsburg, or king's, she will major in psychology, and writing

I may be biased, but here at King's we have a very strong English program. I don't know much about our Psychology program, although I believe Misericordia University in the Back Mountain has a good one. Marywood probably has a good writing program too though because it is noted for its arts programs. Bloomsburg is a big school for education (and drinking, but I digress).