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View Poll Results: Would you vote for Chris Doherty for mayor if the election were held today?
Yes 0 0%
No 6 100.00%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-25-2008, 08:51 AM
 
999 posts, read 2,238,505 times
Reputation: 707

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
I think the time has arrived where we all need to move our respective frustrations to this thread and this thread ALONE from now on! There is currently a thread with over 100 replies entitled something to the effect of "Why Do Miserable People Stay in NEPA?" and that has now erupted into a flame war amongst at least a half-dozen members, including myself. As someone who knows how depressing it feels to get banned, I don't want to see anyone else suffer that same fate.

This message namely applies to the following members who have been involved in that heated thread in one way, shape, or form, even if they didn't directly inflame emotions:

61scout80
Alexia319
cgraz1187
Chefkey
CHS89
coartist88 (whom has been feuding with weluvpa)
daveandpenny
DITC
formerdrunkenSP
GENO-777
greentown
KittensPurr (whom has been sparring with me)
lilangelbaby0099
loveinbloom
mathjak107
MermanMike
MrKrabs
nepanite (whom I especially have a few words to exchange with)
NYRangers 2008
okaydorothy
poconosmama
sues1
Suzer
SWB
TheHighHat
weluvpa (whom has been feuding with coartist88)
W-B proud

Wow! 27 members involved in one thread? That might just be a new sub-forum record! LOL!

We REALLY need to have an all-out slugfest in this thread; it's healthy to release these pent-up frustrations we all seem to have with one another. I know I'm opening myself up to scrutiny from about four people on that list at once, but so be it. Yac acknowledged that he'd be "loose" with this thread, so let it rip. The rest of this sub-forum has become very unsavory now because just about every thread that gets started disintegrates into a bickerfest. Let's just get this over and done with so we can stop scaring off potential new transplants with our pettiness.

I'll start:

KittensPurr: Please S-P-E-L-L O-U-T for me just what it is you take issue with in my replies in the other thread. I literally have read your replies to my replies several times, and the only things I garnered from that were totally unrelated to the topic at hand, which was why miserable people are staying here. You then went off on what seemed like a soap box of how we all need to feel sorry for people who have fallen on adverse times and about how those who haven't experienced them can't appreciate what it feels like to suffer. That's essentially it. I don't understand how that was applicable to myself, nor do I see any part of my reply that was ageist.

nepanite: I'm glad that you forwarded one of my messages to your co-workers for sh*ts and giggles. That's very well-intentioned of you. For your information I DO work 35 hours per week and attend college full-time, so you are way out-of-line by implying this area is in trouble if its own residents need to spend all their time on message boards for fun. In case you haven't noticed there is a definite dearth of young people in this area, so why not be happy that at least ONE is trying to improve the area's image while the other 99% are slamming it into the ground for its social recidivism.
I just got back from a weekend away. SWB, I find it rather annoying that you take over threads with your long-winded rants and then count up everyone's posts and blame others for causing problems. FYI, my one post on that thread was a short, legitimate question for the person quoted, but you took it upon yourself to start a long disseration about employment and education, all of which many of us have had to endure numerous times. I believe KittensPurr was attempting to let you know that there are people in all ages and stages in their life and although you may find it unbelieveable, as at this stage of your life you aren't even resonsible for yourself, we can't all just abandon our children and other responsiblities to enroll in college. Although education is important, I can tell you that most of the people that I know that are successful in life did not attend college, but they do posess that ability to work hard and they also have that other commodity that seems to be in short supply in most young people today, common sense. Someday, if you are lucky enough to have a home and family of your own, you will understand that you do what you need to for them, whether it means working in a grocery store or cleaning toilets for a living. Life has a way of taking unexpected turns for the better and worse just when you least expect them.

I guess the most simplistic way to put this is that you need to not just understand that others have different viewpoints than yours, but just as you want tolerance for your lifestyle, you must also be tolerant of others. I would like to think that many of your comments/rants regarding the uneducated, homophobic, conservative, beer-drinking rednecks that you show so much disdain for are made due to your age. However, I know many college-age people, and have yet to meet one as unaccepting of others as you seem to be.

Oh, and the one observation I have made regarding "slugfests" on this board is that you are usually involved in them.

 
Old 02-25-2008, 09:26 AM
 
3,756 posts, read 5,920,780 times
Reputation: 1043
I am with Greentown all the way with her post. I, personally have it with you SWB and I think that you owe many of us an apology!

The Hat
 
Old 02-25-2008, 09:47 AM
 
1,251 posts, read 2,255,512 times
Reputation: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
...just let me know and I'll follow the lead of a few others in the past week and take an extended break from the forum...
Promises, promises.....
 
Old 02-25-2008, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,184 posts, read 18,791,909 times
Reputation: 3694
I'm not the moderator for this forum, but I am a card-carrying resident, with moderator status across City Data.

I think this is good advice, SWB and you might want to give it some serious consideration.

And, it is something we all need to consider and take to heart when we post on a public forum--our words are permanent here, even when a post or thread is deleted.

And all the bickering back and forth and camp-building certainly keeps me from checking out many threads that would normally be of interest to me as a new resident.

Quote:
Let the moderators do their job and maybe stop posting to that thread.
 
Old 02-25-2008, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
26,555 posts, read 47,267,732 times
Reputation: 11434
I never said that I frowned upon people who don't go to college and/or can't go to college for whatever personal reasons they may be enduring in their lives, which I think is the gist of what KittensPurr was implying that I was trying to do in my replies in the other thread. She came off as being very snide with me, as if she resented the fact that I was "putting down" uneducated people or something, and she and I escalated into our fight because I resented her putting false words in my mouth. I was merely pointing out in the other thread the U.S. Census Bureau-supported FACTS that as one's educational level rises, so do their overall median incomes, hence why it is irrational for people who possess no education in our region to blame their lower earnings potential on "the area," which most around here DO! It's not always the fault of government, a geographical location, etc., sometimes the fault is 100% yours!

Fooled around at age 17 and got pregnant? That's not the fault of the area; it's your own fault (unless you were raped of course in which case I'd have extreme sympathy, but it certainly takes two to tango under normal circumstances). Smoked for twenty years and developed lung cancer that rendered you unable to work so that you're now "struggling?" That's not the fault of the area; it's your own fault for not heeding the advice of your physicians, friends, relatives, etc. who warned you that this would have happened for years. If you lose your home as a result of not being able to pay your taxes because of this inability to work due to your own failure to stop performing an action that put you in this condition, then view it as being a harsh lesson of not making such outlandish decisions in life as having children out of wedlock if you're not "ready" financially to have them, putting yourself into precarious medical situations such as smoking heavily (which also cause the overall health care rates of EVERYONE to soar, but I digress), etc. Everyone seems to want to make excuses for everyone else. In SOME cases I'll have sympathy---for example if the family of fallen hero Capt. Robeson should ever fall onto financial hard times due to his loss of income I'd be devastated and would be the first to try to help. However, that is an extreme case. 9/10 of the "pity" cases in our area that KittensPurr wanted me to apparently take into consideration are of the other variety---the ones who could have easily avoided putting themselves into sticky situations financially but did so anyways and now expect to be given handouts or vent their frustrations by bashing the area.

If you'd go back and reread every reply in the other thread, you'll see that I initially stated I'm a huge proponent of vo-tech programs in high schools, trade schools, beauty schools, apprenticeships, etc. so that one could learn new skills to make themselves more marketable for potential employers. Why? I'm tired of hearing everyone whining about being stuck in dead-end jobs that pay $9/hr. at age 40 and then blaming this on "the area" instead of looking at the FACTS that there ARE decent, family-sustaining career opportunities around here for folks who wish to match their skill sets to what is available. The days of graduating high school and going on to make the "big bucks" at places like Techneglas, Hershey, GM, or many other blue-collar factories are ending NATIONWIDE as outsourcing becomes fashionable amongst larger corporations---not just in NEPA. If you're going to bash the area for not having any career opportunities, then perhaps you first need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why YOU chose to specialize in a career path that you knew had no future in the area in which you wanted to live. I hate public accounting and would have loved a position as an urban/regional planner, economic development specialist, etc., but I know the latter positions are largely unavailable here. Did I major in those fields and then whine that I couldn't find a job here? Nope. Why? I realize that sometimes you need to alter your own ambitions in life in order to meet the expectations of employers, not the other way around. I'm going to be miserable professionally as a CPA, but I'll be happy to be living here, which is in stark contrast to most others who seem to hate living here AND have a dead-end job as well on top of it; at least I have half of the equation to look forward to.

I REFUSE to "apologize" when I committed no wrong. Show me where I was calling people names, insulting, trolling, flaming, etc. Some of you just can't see the "light" that we need to stop making excuses for as to why our local professional workforce is lagging FAR behind the rest of the state and nation if we ever want to brighten local wages. Too many in NEPA have a victimized mentality of "it's not my fault; it's the area's fault." That's not correct at all. I know of hundreds of people who found their professional "niche" in our area, and I know of hundreds more who had the very same opportunities afforded to them and flittered them away due to short-sightedness. Now they see themselves trapped with no viable economic future that will permit them to live up to their peers' expectations of them, so they turn to bashing the region as a result of their insecurities. I see it all the time with how people like Bill Jackowitz will bash the region on at the council podium and then blame city council for the region's unemployment rate as if it is somehow THEIR fault; sadly most around here think like him---it's the local government's fault that we're all struggling; provide for us!!!

I won't stand for this at all. Unlike some who claim they love NEPA, I really DO like it here quite a bit, and I hate to see it coming under attack from people who made their own poor decisions in life, got themselves stuck in a bind, and now blame everyone else but themselves as a result. The gist of KittensPurr's messages to me were along the lines of "some people fall on hard times and need to be excused; they can't help themselves." I'm sorry, but why would our metropolitan area in particular have such a HIGH proportion of these "helpless" souls in relation to the rest of the state and nation? I deem us to all have equal opportunities at our disposal to make choices in life at a young age and to sacrifice THEN so that we won't suffer in the future. I've been downright miserable in life for years now, but I know it will pay off in the end when I'm earning $50,000+ annually at age 30 as a CPA while I hear the cacophony of "this area sucks; there's no jobs" all around me from peers who made stupid decisions like partying every night while I just chuckle to myself. There ARE jobs here in MOST fields! One need not be scrubbing floors, working at Wal-Mart, serving fast food, etc. forever if they choose not to. Life is full of choices, and people really need to stop blaming NEPA for making the wrong ones in life.

An education enough isn't a "ticket" to success, and I never meant to imply that it was (I'm sorry that struck a nerve with so many people who inferred that). Having the proper college degree might just be 1/3 of the equation towards landing a lucrative position. Another 1/3 is simply your interviewing process and overall presentation---Harvard graduates get turned down for positions all the time in favor of Penn State graduates simply because the Ivy-Leaguers don't interview well from time to time. Another 1/3 is quite simply "who you know." I personally don't have qualms about social networking, nepotism, etc. in the hiring process; most who do whine about this are just too unmotivated to try to become friendly with those who work for the firm they are interested in in hopes of befriending them and using them as a footstool to launch themselves into a job offer. Like it or not the "paper" part of the job selection process only goes so far. Having the right attitude, appearance, connections, etc. are just as important. I've heard horror stories about how some of my college peers e-mail professors with very unprofessional tones "Yo", "LOL!", "g2g", "WTF", etc. (i.e. text messaging lingo) has become commonplace amongst my peers and can have DISASTROUS results when used outside of informal contexts, as it makes you appear illiterate when addressing an elder or superior.

Nobody "owes" anyone anything---I see this type of mentality exhibited all the time at the city council podium in Scranton when people will first whine about paying high taxes and then ask for social programs that suck even more money out of them after which they once again whine about high taxes and then once again ask for the government to do more to help "the little people." Give it a break! Those "Draconian" measures that are in place in terms of penalties being levied to punish those who don't pay their taxes were enacted to help taxpayers overall---those who pay their fair share in property taxes won't have to pick up the slack for the ones who don't. Before you go calling me "insensitive to personal suffering of others," bear in mind that Scranton's property taxes are in line (or even lower) when compared to most nearby suburbs. When your income declines you should naturally reduce your expenditures. If that means downsizing your home to an apartment, then so be it. If I ever get laid off from my future accounting position and can't pay my bills, I'm not going to simply not pay my Scranton city taxes "cuz I can't" and then make a big stink about penalties; I'll cut my losses and move somewhere I can afford until I can get back onto my feet financially. Why can't others do the same instead of asking for lenience, pity parties, and sympathizers like Nancy Krake (and apparently someone who just wrote into the newspaper editorials today)? When most people get raises they spend slightly more to afford themselves a slightly higher quality-of-life. Shouldn't it be the other way around when your income decreases as well? Don't you all think I'd like to be driving a newer sedan on-par with the rest of my peers instead of an old car that has 100,000 miles on it? Surely I would, but I know I can't afford one, which is why I'm not going to get into debt over my head simply to keep up appearances. Don't you all think I'd like to go get a makeover so I'm not so esthetically-unappealing? You betcha. I can't afford it though, and I'm not going to jeopardize my future financial prospects by damaging my credit rating now. If more people in our area would plan ahead for their futures, then perhaps we could enjoy a bit less NEPA-bashing and whining from those with the victimized mentalities?
 
Old 02-25-2008, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
26,555 posts, read 47,267,732 times
Reputation: 11434
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary View Post
SWB - I, for one, enjoy reading your posts. It gives me a lot of hope for the future. In an age where writing a coherent sentence is becoming a lost art, it is refreshing to see someone with an excellent facility for writing. The other posters do have a point though, in that age will confer a little more wisdom than you possess at your ripe old age of 21! Age and experience will make you somewhat more conservative, no matter what your political persuasion! That's not necessarily a bad thing tho'. On the down side of that statement, I find that while age has given me a greater understanding of many issues, my more limited patience blunts that somewhat. Maybe that's because I think in terms of not how old I am, but how many years I may have left! Yes, I'm probably crankier than I was at 21, but I manage to live with different points of view a lot better! Learning to be a good listener is important also. Keep on writing!
Thanks. Unfortunately it is difficult to convey tone in your writing, hence why this entire situation has blown up so severely. People saw the honestly INNOCENT series of replies I had initially made in the early part of the other thread (the ones with the Census statistics posted for reference), misinterpreted my investigative tone to be one of harsh criticism, classism, and "finger-pointing", and called me out on it, at which point I defended my integrity (as I still am). I honestly did NOT mean to have the "y'all are dumb and should have known better" tone in my replies earlier in the other thread, so I resent people interjecting such a tone for me about those replies. When my words are misinterpreted and/or twisted I'll ALWAYS defend myself; there's no reason not to.

Here is the main point I wanted to convey:

-In general terms, the more education one attains, the more likely he or she will be to secure a lucrative position. Conversely, the less education one attains, the less likely he or she will be to secure a lucrative position. As such it stands to reason that the easiest way to boost your earnings potential is to consider going back to school.-

Those first two sentences are almost taken verbatum from an analysis presented by the U.S. Census Bureau. That last sentence is my OWN opinion (albeit not an invalid one), and I believe most people took that one out of context to think I was passing judgment upon them. Not at all. If you're a high school graduate and are happy where you are socioeconomically, then more power to you, and I respect you greatly (folks like Louis DeNaples come to mind there). If you're a high school graduate and are NOT happy where you are socioeconomically, then DO NOT BASH THE AREA (the NEPA bashers come to mind)! Pull yourself up by the bootstraps, check into the Occupational Outlook Handbook to investigate what career options most appeal to you, research what requirements you must meet to be employed in that field, and then strive for this goal! I will NOT sit by idly and hear person after person whine "the government owes me this" or "the area owes me that" in order to bash the region I've come to cherish. Our government does NOT owe us jobs in a capitalist society. Our area does NOT owe us jobs in a mobile society. Get over this "gimme" attitude already! Securing a position that you're happy with is admittedly NOT a simple task, but it IS possible.

There seems to be this illogical theory that there is a dearth of decent employers in our region. Just off the top of my head I can rattle off dozens (I'll only list a few like Solid Cactus, Pride Mobility Products, Guard Insurance, Keystone Automotive, MetLife, Sanofi-Pasteur Pharmaceuticals, Parente Randolph, Quad 3, Tobyhanna Army Depot, Merill Lynch, Prudential, etc. since I know people like Dan whine that they don't like reading). It's not that there is a lack of available positions; it is that there is a lack of motivation and ambition amongst the whiners and bashers to run out and grab one of these positions by the horns! The newspaper classifieds list perhaps 2% of the available positions in our region. When combined with Monster, CareerBuilder, etc., that number might still only rise to 25%. The vast majority of those who have jobs at these firms secured them by taking the initiative to go onto these companies' web sites and either submit their resume and cover letter there via e-mail or searched for employees' e-mail addresses to e-mail them to introduce themselves, indicate they have an interest in the company, inquire about how happy they are currently with their positions, etc.

Got that? Good! Now that you know how to obtain one of these jobs, learn that the salaries being offered are NOT "peanuts"; you can't benchmark local salaries to those offered in NYC/North Jersey/SEPA because the cost-of-living here is MUCH lower. I'll probably start around $40,000 locally as a CPA while my peers in NYC start at around $60,000. Why would I opt for the lesser salary? For $40,000 in NEPA I could afford a modest home to call my own. For $60,000 in NYC, you'll be living in a small apartment in Manhattan or (perhaps) a raddy home in North Jersey. You can't put a price tag on quality-of-life.

Let's see. I've just proven that there ARE quality employers in our region and that our salaries are low for a reason, so why exactly do so many still bash NEPA's economy?
 
Old 02-25-2008, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Drama Central
4,084 posts, read 5,856,749 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post
Quote:
I won't stand for this at all. Unlike some who claim they love NEPA, I really DO like it here quite a bit, and I hate to see it coming under attack from people who made their own poor decisions in life, got themselves stuck in a bind, and now blame everyone else but themselves as a result.
How the hell do you if they have made poor decisions in life? Do you honestly think that the only people that are complaining are those that are suffering under poor decisions or are stuck in a bind? You are a presumptuous little child.

Quote:
I deem us to all have equal opportunities at our disposal to make choices in life at a young age and to sacrifice THEN so that we won't suffer in the future.
How do you know this? I pretty sure that not everyone has a mom and dad that can afford to house their child while he goes to college and that can afford to even give their kids money for college. Your really have no idea what the real world is Paul, you have been living in a bubble that you call moms house.
Quote:
I've been downright miserable in life for years now, but I know it will pay off in the end when I'm earning $50,000+ annually at age 30 as a CPA.
What are going to do when your presumptuous little dreams don't pan out?


Quote:
Life is full of choices, and people really need to stop blaming NEPA for making the wrong ones in life.
Boy oh boy you really need to grow the hell up.


Quote:
An education enough isn't a "ticket" to success, and I never meant to imply that it was (I'm sorry that struck a nerve with so many people who inferred that).
Back peddling?



Quote:
Nobody "owes" anyone anything---I see this type of mentality exhibited all the time at the city council podium in Scranton when people will first whine about paying high taxes and then ask for social programs that suck even more money out of them after which they once again whine about high taxes and then once again ask for the government to do more to help "the little people." Give it a break!
Clarify this remark? Who whined about taxes then asked for tax draining social programs to put into affect at a city council meeting?
Quote:
When your income declines you should naturally reduce your expenditures. If that means downsizing your home to an apartment, then so be it. [BIf I ever get laid off from my future accounting position and can't pay my bills, I'm not going to simply not pay my Scranton city taxes "cuz I can't" and then make a big stink about penalties; I'll cut my losses and move somewhere I can afford until I can get back onto my feet financially. [/b]
You'll move home to moms house. Downsize huh? Its that easy to just sell your home and move into a apartment is it? I would need to have a warehouse to store a lifetime of belongings not to mention what do you do with pets or if you have multiple children? You really have no idea what it is like to have to deal with life do you? The more you go on and on the more you sound and act like a child.
Quote:
Why can't others do the same instead of asking for lenience, pity parties, and sympathizers like Nancy Krake (and apparently someone who just wrote into the newspaper editorials today)? When most people get raises they spend slightly more to afford themselves a slightly higher quality-of-life.
Unless your a Scranton firefighter or police officer. You know in the real world Paul they just don't hand out raises like candy.

Quote:
Shouldn't it be the other way around when your income decreases as well? Don't you all think I'd like to be driving a newer sedan on-par with the rest of my peers instead of an old car that has 100,000 miles on it? Surely I would, but I know I can't afford one, which is why I'm not going to get into debt over my head simply to keep up appearances. Don't you all think I'd like to go get a makeover so I'm not so esthetically-unappealing? You betcha. I can't afford it though, and I'm not going to jeopardize my future financial prospects by damaging my credit rating now.

If you can't afford to buy a newer car while YOUR LIVING AT HOME your going to have a hard time getting one on your own. Especially if you bury yourself in debt with your fixer upper in the Hill.
Quote:
If more people in our area would plan ahead for their futures, then perhaps we could enjoy a bit less NEPA-bashing and whining from those with the victimized mentalities?
If it was only as easy as you think it is Paul the world would be a better place and we would all be rich and there would be no poor. We would all live in the downtown of every city in the country and we would be surrounded by miles of empty woods and farms..........TOOO BAD ITS THE 21st CENTURY.
 
Old 02-25-2008, 05:25 PM
 
Location: NEPA
915 posts, read 2,099,679 times
Reputation: 372
weluvpa --- don't waste your time !!!! swb is very immature, only knows what he has
read. When he gets out 'in the real world' and experiences life first hand, he will
understand. Although, with his -know it all attitude-he is going to have a hard time. And if he talks as much as he writes --- he is going to have a very hard time.
 
Old 02-25-2008, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
26,555 posts, read 47,267,732 times
Reputation: 11434
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkotb View Post
weluvpa --- don't waste your time !!!! swb is very immature, only knows what he has
read. When he gets out 'in the real world' and experiences life first hand, he will
understand. Although, with his -know it all attitude-he is going to have a hard time. And if he talks as much as he writes --- he is going to have a very hard time.
What the hell did I ever do to you for you to make such nasty statements about me? Stay the hell out of this if it doesn't concern you!
 
Old 02-25-2008, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
26,555 posts, read 47,267,732 times
Reputation: 11434
By the way, Dan, nice way to be a hypocrite. You yourself stated in the past how your parents footed your tuition to Scranton Prep, your college tuition, living expenses, etc., and now you criticize me for doing the same thing. Double standards, anyone? It's perfectly fine for YOUR parents to help finance your high school and college educations, but mine can't? Interesting indeed to see you talking out of both sides of your head.
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