What Does Scranton Need to Undergo a Renaissance? (Wilkes-Barre, Hanover: apartments, lofts)

[kettlepot]

Originally Posted by TheEmissary

Trains appear to be the most cost-efficient way to move large numbers of people. It would be nice to have those super-fast Bullet trains they have in Europe and Japan, but at this point anything would be an improvement!

Rail Transport

While a super-fast Bullet train would be great, as Emissary said, a regular old train that smooths out a few kinks in the track so it can travel at 75mph would be a vast improvement over the interstates and state highways, especially at rush hour.

Historic District

On to other items, don't be shy about the Historic District idea. Not every building inside an historic district needs to be historic. Just so long that a substantial majority are historic, or contributing to the historic character (these are terms used under California state law, Pennsylvania law may be different) then a district can be justified.

Entertainment District

I did not see as much feed back about the entertainment district idea. While it's a bit touristy - it's right next to the Convention Center - San Diego's Gaslamp District of restaurants, bars, and dance clubs, has been a HUGE success. On Friday and Saturday nights, the sidewalks are wall-to-wall people, the streets are so crowded with cars and pedestrians that it takes 15 minutes to go 6 blocks if you make the mistake of driving 5th Avenue.

The whole effect of the Gaslamp District is to give the southern part of downtown San Diego a HUGE boost of evening and night time street life. People who come downtown report back to their friends and neighbors in the suburbs that Downtown is jumping, and that's even though it only covers a 6 block area and the rest of downtown is pretty quiet at night and on the weekends.

Over time the blocks around this entertainment district have sprouted downtown condos both new and rehabilitated that feed off of the energy of the entertainment district. And other neighborhoods on the northside of downtown, advertise their walkable closeness to Gaslamp entertainment. And along with the Gaslamp District, the rebirth of downtown has proceeded with the building of the downtown shopping plaza (Horton Plaza), bayside convention center and baseball park, the preservation and rehabilitation of the historic U.S. Grant Hotel, and plenty of luxury and modestly priced condominiums. There are further plans to remake the entire northern shore of San Diego bay into a series of parks, promenades, and bicycle trails that will extend for miles. The views of the bay from this urban park system will be spectacular. Also downtown has received the full support of all government entities in San Diego. City Hall and County Administration buildings are still downtown. The state and federal courts are still located there, and the Navy has plans to rebuild their entire administrative complex on the San Diego bayfront.

I know that not all of this is directly translatable to Scranton. You will have tailor it to your particular strengths, such as more historic architecture, and of course downsize it to match your much smaller population.

[TheEmissary]

Originally Posted by kettlepot

While a super-fast Bullet train would be great, as Emissary said, a regular old train that smooths out a few kinks in the track so it can travel at 75mph would be a vast improvement over the interstates and state highways, especially at rush hour.

On to other items, don't be shy about the Historic District idea. Not every building inside an historic district needs to be historic. Just so long that a substantial majority are historic, or contributing to the historic character (these are terms used under California state law, Pennsylvania law may be different) then a district can be justified.

I did not see as much feed back about the entertainment district idea. While it's a bit touristy - it's right next to the Convention Center - San Diego's Gaslamp District of restaurants, bars, and dance clubs, has been a HUGE success. On Friday and Saturday nights, the sidewalks are wall-to-wall people, the streets are so crowded with cars and pedestrians that it takes 15 minutes to go 6 blocks if you make the mistake of driving 5th Avenue.

The whole effect of the Gaslamp District is to give the southern part of downtown San Diego a HUGE boost of evening and night time street life. People who come downtown report back to their friends and neighbors in the suburbs that Downtown is jumping, and that's even though it only covers a 6 block area and the rest of downtown is pretty quiet at night and on the weekends.

Over time the blocks around this entertainment district have sprouted downtown condos both new and rehabilitated that feed off of the energy of the entertainment district. And other neighborhoods on the northside of downtown, advertise their walkable closeness to Gaslamp entertainment. And along with the Gaslamp District, the rebirth of downtown has proceeded with the building of the downtown shopping plaza (Horton Plaza), bayside convention center and baseball park, the preservation and rehabilitation of the historic U.S. Grant Hotel, and plenty of luxury and modestly priced condominiums. There are further plans to remake the entire northern shore of San Diego bay into a series of parks, promenades, and bicycle trails that will extend for miles. The views of the bay from this urban park system will be spectacular. Also downtown has received the full support of all government entities in San Diego. City Hall and County Administration buildings are still downtown. The state and federal courts are still located there, and the Navy has plans to rebuild their entire administrative complex on the San Diego bayfront.

I know that not all of this is directly translatable to Scranton. You will have tailor it to your particular strengths, such as more historic architecture, and of course downsize it to match your much smaller population.

kettlepot - Thank you for the encouragement! I suspect that even with the real estate downturn in SoCal that a half square mile of San Diego real estate might have more net value than the whole city of Scranton! I was one of the people who thought there was nothing in San Diego that could ever need reviving in any way! Glad to know that your beautiful city still takes care of itself as the need arises. I hope you weren't in any of the terrible fire areas out there! We on the East Coast tend to have the mistaken view that a typical California Historic site could well be a MacDonalds built in 1964 - forgetting that Spain had a presence there in 1542! But I suspect you don't have older 2000 sq ft homes that one could purchase for $150,000. Ah! California Dreamin' - thanks for the post!

[kettlepot]

I was viewing a recent San Diego city council meeting today and watched an item on the designation of an historical district within the city for a subdivision built starting in 1908. Part of the data presented was that on average nationwide, homes within such a district benefit from a 10%-20% increase in property values.

Originally Posted by TheEmissary

We on the East Coast tend to have the mistaken view that a typical California Historic site could well be a MacDonalds built in 1964 . . . But I suspect you don't have older 2000 sq ft homes that one could purchase for $150,000. Ah! California Dreamin' - thanks for the post!

But you aren't far off about a 1964 McDonalds being a historic site. San Diego's historical ordinance calls for historic review of the demolition of any structure older than 45 years old. That would be 1963. So many bad things were done to our older neighborhoods in the 1960s through early 1980s that San Diego has become much more protective of our very limited historic resources.

Yes, the prospect of owning a 3/1.5 Turn of the Century historic home for under 250k is what has drawn my attention to the Pennsylvania City Data boards, and it may eventually motivate me to make a move to the northeast. Lots of people love to move into these older neighborhoods if the crime is controlled, the taxes are reasonable, and neighborhoods are intact. A house like that would probably cost 700-800k in San Diego if it was in one of our intact historic neighborhoods.

If you don't protect your architectural heritage, it won't survive!

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by SWB

Another thing I'd like to see would be streetscape improvements along North Main Avenue and South Main Avenue through West Side. There are a lot of wonderful close-knit mom-and-pop businesses along that "main drag," but it is ugly as all hell. It is in dire need in many sections of new sidewalks, greenery, benches, Victorian-era street lights, etc. If Main Avenue were more "friendly" towards pedestrians, then you'd likely see many more folks from the adjacent Hyde Park, Tripps Park, and Bellevue neighborhoods sauntering around on warmer evenings to grab a bite at Faccia Luna and do some browsing at nearby shops. In its current state this "gateway" to West Side isn't very attractive. Some "Welcome to West Side" banners adorning those street lights might be a nice touch as well, and they would be free if they were sponsored by neighborhood businesses. Above-ground utilities should be moved underground. I always thought Hyde Park was one of the nicer neighborhoods overall in Scranton, but it's main drag leaves much to be desired in terms of esthetics.

I agree with you 100% here. I would love to see some improvements to Main Ave in West Side, as they did with the Providence Square area of North Scranton.

[FightinPhils]

A great idea, regarding the mass transit discussion going on here, would be express bus service for commuters between downtwon Scranton and downtown Wilkes-Barre. You'd be surprised how many people live in Scranton and work in Wilkes-Barre and vice-versa. Traffic on I-81 would be greatly reduced if this could happen. It could potentially be a partnership between COLTS and LCTA. I know I would use it.

[TERMINOLOGY]

More reading than I have time for, but very exciting.

Ramble:

First off, I am proud to be considered a Scrantonite, even with all the problems we face. I am willing to try and change from within.

· Agreeing with allot of the Historic and E-Beautification ideas, but not seeing the money to pay for it. But I am for it.

ELIMINATE SPRAWL:

· Make the County the primate of taxation. Have community’s pool services and institutions. How many Tax Collectors, School Boards, Superintendents, Judges, DA’s, etc, do we need.

It seems to me that the community (county) is at war with Scranton. The community seems to draw people out, and money out. The city is left to tax in order to survive. The attraction of sprawl. This may lead to more sprawl to the detriment of the city.
· What if Green Ridge, Providence, Hyde Park, West Side, South Side, joined the sprawl?
· What if they all became their own BOROUGHS, collected their own taxes, and provided their own services?
· Would this relieve the city of burden?
· Would this improve these areas of the city faster?
· Would this relieve tax payers of a burden, and improve the purchasing power of their tax dollar?

CONSOLIDATE SERVICES:

· Have the County look at taking over Fire, Police and Emergency Services.
· Trash the Unions. Eliminate the reasons for it. Offer good pay and a Health Care plan tied to local hospitals. Offer a Pension equal to that commiserate what the community receives.
· Since Lackawanna County has to share allot of the Federal money that comes our way, than maybe we should look at consolidation with Luzerne County.
· How does Scranton actually benefit from Montage, Baseball, Hockey, Gaming, etc?
· Investigate a Convention Center.

Seek and You shall find, ask and you shall receive:

· Toyota has installed two new plants in North America in the past 5 years. Was Scranton even considered? Was Scranton beating on their door saying, Hey, we have access to a highly educated population. We have a trained and trainable blue collar community that will work for you. We don't need the UNION, if you treat us fairly. I think we need to go and find them. Possibly spend money on plane tickets and hotel rooms and talk to the Japanese and Chinese and see if they will come.

Simi Valley and San Diego have aero space. San Francisco has Silicone Valley. It probably would be nice if the retirees moved to Scranton, and fixed up the old Victorians. This would be an entirely new community, and a change. They would not accept the services the city currently offers in return for the taxes paid. They would have to increase taxes to increase the service. Having lived in North Jersey and seeing the level of service offered as far as winter maintenance, NOT.

PUBLIC WORKS DEPT:

· Alternate side of the street parking needs to be initiated. This will assist with traffic congestion, sweeping streets free of dirt, and clearing streets free of snow and ice.
· New more cost efficient methods of Winter Maintenance Practice need to be investigated.
· More education as to the practices that the rest of the country is using needs be investigated.
· Get rid of the UNIONS. Pay well, offer Health Care commiserate to the quality that the community receives, and offer retirement of the same quality.
· We are forced to live with several hundred pounds of dust in front of our homes due from archaic WMP. This is unhealthy. Get rid of this before we plant trees.

EDUCATION:

· Promote Education to government institutions’ and officials in regard to what their peers do in other STATES. NOT PA. Promote bringing in new thoughts and out of the box thinking. Every dollar spent on this returns many more.

SCHOLARSHIPS TO PROMOTE GROWTH:

· Instead of asking the colleges for PILOT money, ask them for 500 additional LOCAL scholarships.
· THIS WOULD BRING MORE MIDDLE CLASS HERE FOR THE COLLEGE, improves our economy through education, and attracts manufacturing.
· Real Estate values would probably increase also.
· Or in lieu of scholarships, levy a 1% sales tax on tuition.



INVESTIGATE CORRUPTION:

Corruption cost’s every tax payer money. A community without justice is just not attractive.

· Appoint comities with subpoena power to investigate. Parking Authority, Sewer Authority, Schools.
· Install technology to help account for dollars, and eliminate the human factor.

HIRING PRACTICE:

· Human Resource Practices need to improve and be brought more in line with the 21st Century. Get rid of graft and nepotism in the Government and the Schools. Eliminate Stink
· Eliminate Government Purchasing loop holes, and shore up competitive bidding practices.

CHANGE TO CONSUMER BASED TAXATION:

· Shift the burden of taxation away from the few and onto the many.


· Eliminate income tax that penalizes the people who want to build the community.

· Transfer taxation to the community to eliminate sprawl. This will improve the distribution of wealth in the community. I don't have to live in DC now because of the regressive tax in Scranton.

• [SIZE=3]Levy a Health Care Tax on the Hospitals to offset costs. 1% on all sales[/SIZE]

· Levy a consumer tax on the Medical Profession. 1% on all sales

• [SIZE=3]Levy a consumer tax on prescription drug sales. 1% on all sales[/SIZE]

The ultimate increase in Health Insurance would be a net gain to the taxpayer and the city, compared to the current drain on the pocket. The City possesses these services. People come here for these services. Let them pay. Let the City Gain.

Make Scranton a strong county seat where people are proud to live and gather.

[Retired Law 08]

Originally Posted by TERMINOLOGY

More reading than I have time for, but very exciting.

Ramble:

First off, I am proud to be considered a Scrantonite, even with all the problems we face. I am willing to try and change from within.

· Agreeing with allot of the Historic and E-Beautification ideas, but not seeing the money to pay for it. But I am for it.

ELIMINATE SPRAWL:

· Make the County the primate of taxation. Have community’s pool services and institutions. How many Tax Collectors, School Boards, Superintendents, Judges, DA’s, etc, do we need.

It seems to me that the community (county) is at war with Scranton. The community seems to draw people out, and money out. The city is left to tax in order to survive. The attraction of sprawl. This may lead to more sprawl to the detriment of the city.
· What if Green Ridge, Providence, Hyde Park, West Side, South Side, joined the sprawl?
· What if they all became their own BOROUGHS, collected their own taxes, and provided their own services?
· Would this relieve the city of burden?
· Would this improve these areas of the city faster?
· Would this relieve tax payers of a burden, and improve the purchasing power of their tax dollar?

CONSOLIDATE SERVICES:

· Have the County look at taking over Fire, Police and Emergency Services.
· Trash the Unions. Eliminate the reasons for it. Offer good pay and a Health Care plan tied to local hospitals. Offer a Pension equal to that commiserate what the community receives.
· Since Lackawanna County has to share allot of the Federal money that comes our way, than maybe we should look at consolidation with Luzerne County.
· How does Scranton actually benefit from Montage, Baseball, Hockey, Gaming, etc?
· Investigate a Convention Center.

Seek and You shall find, ask and you shall receive:

· Toyota has installed two new plants in North America in the past 5 years. Was Scranton even considered? Was Scranton beating on their door saying, Hey, we have access to a highly educated population. We have a trained and trainable blue collar community that will work for you. We don't need the UNION, if you treat us fairly. I think we need to go and find them. Possibly spend money on plane tickets and hotel rooms and talk to the Japanese and Chinese and see if they will come.

Simi Valley and San Diego have aero space. San Francisco has Silicone Valley. It probably would be nice if the retirees moved to Scranton, and fixed up the old Victorians. This would be an entirely new community, and a change. They would not accept the services the city currently offers in return for the taxes paid. They would have to increase taxes to increase the service. Having lived in North Jersey and seeing the level of service offered as far as winter maintenance, NOT.

PUBLIC WORKS DEPT:

· Alternate side of the street parking needs to be initiated. This will assist with traffic congestion, sweeping streets free of dirt, and clearing streets free of snow and ice.
· New more cost efficient methods of Winter Maintenance Practice need to be investigated.
· More education as to the practices that the rest of the country is using needs be investigated.
· Get rid of the UNIONS. Pay well, offer Health Care commiserate to the quality that the community receives, and offer retirement of the same quality.
· We are forced to live with several hundred pounds of dust in front of our homes due from archaic WMP. This is unhealthy. Get rid of this before we plant trees.

EDUCATION:

· Promote Education to government institutions’ and officials in regard to what their peers do in other STATES. NOT PA. Promote bringing in new thoughts and out of the box thinking. Every dollar spent on this returns many more.

SCHOLARSHIPS TO PROMOTE GROWTH:

· Instead of asking the colleges for PILOT money, ask them for 500 additional LOCAL scholarships.
· THIS WOULD BRING MORE MIDDLE CLASS HERE FOR THE COLLEGE, improves our economy through education, and attracts manufacturing.
· Real Estate values would probably increase also.
· Or in lieu of scholarships, levy a 1% sales tax on tuition.



INVESTIGATE CORRUPTION:

Corruption cost’s every tax payer money. A community without justice is just not attractive.

· Appoint comities with subpoena power to investigate. Parking Authority, Sewer Authority, Schools.
· Install technology to help account for dollars, and eliminate the human factor.

HIRING PRACTICE:

· Human Resource Practices need to improve and be brought more in line with the 21st Century. Get rid of graft and nepotism in the Government and the Schools. Eliminate Stink
· Eliminate Government Purchasing loop holes, and shore up competitive bidding practices.

CHANGE TO CONSUMER BASED TAXATION:

· Shift the burden of taxation away from the few and onto the many.


· Eliminate income tax that penalizes the people who want to build the community.

· Transfer taxation to the community to eliminate sprawl. This will improve the distribution of wealth in the community. I don't have to live in DC now because of the regressive tax in Scranton.

• [SIZE=3]Levy a Health Care Tax on the Hospitals to offset costs. 1% on all sales[/SIZE]

· Levy a consumer tax on the Medical Profession. 1% on all sales

• [SIZE=3]Levy a consumer tax on prescription drug sales. 1% on all sales[/SIZE]

The ultimate increase in Health Insurance would be a net gain to the taxpayer and the city, compared to the current drain on the pocket. The City possesses these services. People come here for these services. Let them pay. Let the City Gain.

Make Scranton a strong county seat where people are proud to live and gather.

Very good ideas you have

[to570717]

Term, Very Impressed, that should be presented at Council meetings to show the regulars who make a mockary of its potential that if you go there with ideas and not to bash your imanginary ememies.....PEOPLE WILL LISTEN> Excellent post, excellent ideas!

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by to570717

Term, Very Impressed, that should be presented at Council meetings to show the regulars who make a mockary of its potential that if you go there with ideas and not to bash your imanginary ememies.....PEOPLE WILL LISTEN> Excellent post, excellent ideas!

I concur wholeheartedly. Scranton City Council meetings have become such a joke and a mockery to the political process because instead of taking the approach we are taking on this forum to brainstorm ways to IMPROVE the city, those who approach the podium simply BASH the political figures personally because they all have vendettas and feel "victimized" by this "regime." At least during the one time that I did happen to approach the podium (which I probably won't do again since I'm sure people would squawk that non-residents "have no right to speak") I used my time constructively to pitch an idea (albeit one that I later rescinded). What strategies has Fay Franus offered to improve the city? Les Spindler? Joe Pilchesky? Andy Sbaraglia? Bill Jackowitz? These people are a blight upon the city. For every one person like Dan, Marie Schumacher, Douglas Miller, etc. that actually have IDEAS, there are two others who have nothing to say other than "I could do a better job." Well then let them run for office! I'm sure Scranton will become vibrant under the brilliant leadership of Mayor Spindler.

We need more "thinkers" and "movers and shakers" in Scranton as opposed to b*tchers and gripers. What's been done has been done, for better or worse. GET OVER IT! Pessimism and pettiness over things that happened in 2002 or about "Jimmy got a bigger piece of pie than I did" doesn't attract new business and/or residential growth; optimism and progressivness DOES! I have a lot of ideas in my mind I'd love to implement someday---perhaps not as a city council member but definitely as a neighborhood association president.

[ScranBarre]

Hi Terminology!

I must say I agree with the majority of your ideas and disagree with some others. Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to post your thoughts onto this thread (even though certain people will whine in a reply that they don't want to read more than 15 paragraphs).

1.) There's simply no way to "eliminate" sprawl. Low-density growth patterns out into the suburbs/exurbs are what they are---detrimental to a city's rebirth---but you can't legally tell people they can't move to South Abington Township or Glenmaura or have to open their business in Downtown Scranton as opposed to Montage Mountain or Dickson City, even though that's what we WANT to help restore the city to its grandeur. Lackawanna County can indeed follow the precedents established in places like Lexington, Kentucky and the state of Oregon in terms of creating "urban growth boundaries" though. It's not a "cure-all" for sprawl (more like a Band-Aid), but it's better than doing nothing at all. Basically the governments there were concerned about preserving open space for future generations so they mapped out areas that should be suitable for future development while officially designating others as "off-limits" to developers. In this sense people could still live in suburbs or rural areas, but they were limited on how far they could stray from existing developed areas (think of the boundary as an "edge" of permitted development). Redirecting growth inside of the urban growth boundaries had some negative effects such as boosting housing/land values, but it also had more positive effects such as encouraging developers to reinvest in urban centers, encouraging walkable neighborhoods to develop, and making it easier for mass transit to be viable. For as much as I hate urban sprawl for what's it's doing to our area, you can't "stop" it, as it is an infringement upon personal liberty.

2.) If anything we need to consolidate municipalities, not encourage more to secede from host communities. Luzerne County has 76 different municipalities for 300,000 residents in a rather compact area. That's asinine. Instead of having perhaps a few dozen different municipal governments (i.e. TAXING BODIES) in place, we have 76. I believe Lackawanna County has 40 municipalities for 200,000 residents. That's 116 different communities within a two-county metropolitan region. That's unbelievable. It creates much unnecessary duplication of services, especially when the MAJORITY of these communities has under 5,000 residents. We have Elmhurst Township completely surrounded by another larger township (the only such case of one township engulfing another in the entire state). We have Jeddo Borough (pop. 100) refusing to be absorbed into Hazle Township. We have other tiny towns like Pringle, Courtdale, Vandling, Sugar Notch, Warrior Run, Penn Lake Park, Nuangola, Clarks Green, Dalton, etc. that could EASILY be merged into adjacent municipalities (Clarks Green===>Clarks Summit, Dalton===> Glenburn Township, Sugar Notch/Warrior Run===>Hanover Township, Pringle/Courtdale===>Luzerne Borough, etc.) When you consolidate municipalities and their services, taxpayers ultimately SAVE money. The only reason why these tiny communities won't permit themselves to be abosrbed into adjacent larger communities is because the "old farts" in them want to "preserve their individuality." Are they willing to pay higher taxes for that in terms of duplicating services? This is why I disagree with your idea to have Hyde Park, Tripps Park, Minooka, Providence, etc. secede from Scranton, as they'll end up spending MORE MONEY in the long-run to form their own police departments, fire departments, DPWs, school districts, municipal officials, etc.

Finally, your last sentence "Make Scranton a strong county seat where people are proud to live and gather" especially rings true. People in the suburbs treat Scranton like a bunion that should be scraped away and put into the trash. In reality it is their own 'burbs that are the parasites leeching off of Scranton's universities, hospitals, theaters/galleries, parks, county offices, etc. without paying anything to the host municipality. If (and this is a BIG if) I should run for office in Scranton in my late-20s or early-30s, I'm going to make shifting a greater burden onto subrubanites and off of city residents a top priority. A 3.4% wage tax being levied upon city residents so that tens of thousands of suburbanites from the Mid-Valley and Abingtons down to Pittston can sponge off of city amenities is seemingly immoral, in my eyes.