What Does Scranton Need to Undergo a Renaissance? (Erie, Bethlehem: appointed, 2009)

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by SWB

Finally, your last sentence "Make Scranton a strong county seat where people are proud to live and gather" especially rings true. People in the suburbs treat Scranton like a bunion that should be scraped away and put into the trash. In reality it is their own 'burbs that are the parasites leeching off of Scranton's universities, hospitals, theaters/galleries, parks, county offices, etc. without paying anything to the host municipality. If (and this is a BIG if) I should run for office in Scranton in my late-20s or early-30s, I'm going to make shifting a greater burden onto subrubanites and off of city residents a top priority. A 3.4% wage tax being levied upon city residents so that tens of thousands of suburbanites from the Mid-Valley and Abingtons down to Pittston can sponge off of city amenities is seemingly immoral, in my eyes.

I agree 100%. People outside of Scranton love to leech off of Scranton's amenities...colleges, hospitals, jobs, entertainment, etc...but want the burden of running Scranton completely on the shoulders of Scranton residents. Let the people from Throop or Peckville or Clarks Green work and educate themselves and whatever in their own towns, then. The honestly should share in the burden of keeping Scranton afloat....they benefit from the city's services and roads, etc. I'm not saying they should pay as much tax as a Scranton resident, but a fraction of a percent in wage tax wouldn't be too much to ask.

I can see it now...the University of Throop (hey, they would have the nations #1 Heynabonics program...or maybe they can call it Whatsamatta U, and have an Up Da Line Campus and a Down Da Line Campus....heyna er no?)

[TERMINOLOGY]

Originally Posted by SWB

Hi Terminology!

Would be kind of boring to find agreement on everything. Hope we can offer each other idea's in an open source environment that promotes progress of mankind. No one has a patent on open thought.

Perhaps my original message was not made totally clear. The Sprawl that I refer to is more my own terminology. When I refer to it I am referring to how the outlying communities draw sales, and taxation away at the expense of the city. In this sense, the communities within the counties are competing against one another, making The City have to compete for the sales dollar, and tax the residents to make up for the short fall. Tried, hope I clarified.

You are right you can't stop people from living where they want, and nor should you.

If taxation does not change, than you will begin to loose the City. Why should tax dollars keep going toward less for the whole. If I keep my dollar more local, it will be worth more. Eventually, I move, or choose this coarse. Eventually, I seek away out of the financial burdns that are suffocating us. If this were a corporation, they would file bankruptcy.

So Hyde Park will be able to pay for itself, and more efficiently. If improvement does not come soon, this must be investigated. The cat is in the corner.

Where do we send the campaign contributions?

[TERMINOLOGY]

Originally Posted by SWB

Hi Terminology!

I must say I agree with the majority of your ideas and disagree with some others. Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to post your thoughts onto this thread (even though certain people will whine in a reply that they don't want to read more than 15 paragraphs).

1.) There's simply no way to "eliminate" sprawl. Low-density growth patterns out into the suburbs/exurbs are what they are---detrimental to a city's rebirth---but you can't legally tell people they can't move to South Abington Township or Glenmaura or have to open their business in Downtown Scranton as opposed to Montage Mountain or Dickson City, even though that's what we WANT to help restore the city to its grandeur. Lackawanna County can indeed follow the precedents established in places like Lexington, Kentucky and the state of Oregon in terms of creating "urban growth boundaries" though. It's not a "cure-all" for sprawl (more like a Band-Aid), but it's better than doing nothing at all. Basically the governments there were concerned about preserving open space for future generations so they mapped out areas that should be suitable for future development while officially designating others as "off-limits" to developers. In this sense people could still live in suburbs or rural areas, but they were limited on how far they could stray from existing developed areas (think of the boundary as an "edge" of permitted development). Redirecting growth inside of the urban growth boundaries had some negative effects such as boosting housing/land values, but it also had more positive effects such as encouraging developers to reinvest in urban centers, encouraging walkable neighborhoods to develop, and making it easier for mass transit to be viable. For as much as I hate urban sprawl for what's it's doing to our area, you can't "stop" it, as it is an infringement upon personal liberty.

2.) If anything we need to consolidate municipalities, not encourage more to secede from host communities. Luzerne County has 76 different municipalities for 300,000 residents in a rather compact area. That's asinine. Instead of having perhaps a few dozen different municipal governments (i.e. TAXING BODIES) in place, we have 76. I believe Lackawanna County has 40 municipalities for 200,000 residents. That's 116 different communities within a two-county metropolitan region. That's unbelievable. It creates much unnecessary duplication of services, especially when the MAJORITY of these communities has under 5,000 residents. We have Elmhurst Township completely surrounded by another larger township (the only such case of one township engulfing another in the entire state). We have Jeddo Borough (pop. 100) refusing to be absorbed into Hazle Township. We have other tiny towns like Pringle, Courtdale, Vandling, Sugar Notch, Warrior Run, Penn Lake Park, Nuangola, Clarks Green, Dalton, etc. that could EASILY be merged into adjacent municipalities (Clarks Green===>Clarks Summit, Dalton===> Glenburn Township, Sugar Notch/Warrior Run===>Hanover Township, Pringle/Courtdale===>Luzerne Borough, etc.) When you consolidate municipalities and their services, taxpayers ultimately SAVE money. The only reason why these tiny communities won't permit themselves to be abosrbed into adjacent larger communities is because the "old farts" in them want to "preserve their individuality." Are they willing to pay higher taxes for that in terms of duplicating services? This is why I disagree with your idea to have Hyde Park, Tripps Park, Minooka, Providence, etc. secede from Scranton, as they'll end up spending MORE MONEY in the long-run to form their own police departments, fire departments, DPWs, school districts, municipal officials, etc.

Finally, your last sentence "Make Scranton a strong county seat where people are proud to live and gather" especially rings true. People in the suburbs treat Scranton like a bunion that should be scraped away and put into the trash. In reality it is their own 'burbs that are the parasites leeching off of Scranton's universities, hospitals, theaters/galleries, parks, county offices, etc. without paying anything to the host municipality. If (and this is a BIG if) I should run for office in Scranton in my late-20s or early-30s, I'm going to make shifting a greater burden onto subrubanites and off of city residents a top priority. A 3.4% wage tax being levied upon city residents so that tens of thousands of suburbanites from the Mid-Valley and Abingtons down to Pittston can sponge off of city amenities is seemingly immoral, in my eyes.

Originally Posted by MrKrabs

I agree 100%. People outside of Scranton love to leech off of Scranton's amenities...colleges, hospitals, jobs, entertainment, etc...but want the burden of running Scranton completely on the shoulders of Scranton residents. Let the people from Throop or Peckville or Clarks Green work and educate themselves and whatever in their own towns, then. The honestly should share in the burden of keeping Scranton afloat....they benefit from the city's services and roads, etc. I'm not saying they should pay as much tax as a Scranton resident, but a fraction of a percent in wage tax wouldn't be too much to ask.

I can see it now...the University of Throop (hey, they would have the nations #1 Heynabonics program!)

Throop College of Beer Knowledge. No offense to Throop, just tipping back a few.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by TERMINOLOGY

Where do we send the campaign contributions?

For Dan?

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by TERMINOLOGY

Throop College of Beer Knowledge. No offense to Throop, just tipping back a few.

I do remember that...it was the old bar that's across the street from Turkey Hill on the Main street going through Throop. Heyna er no?

[ontheroad]

Several cities are working with Artspace as part of a city renaissance. They were interviewed on Lost and Saved on WJFF (Jeffersonville, NY) today. Apparently they just did a project in Buffalo, and plan several others in both large and smaller cities (one in central Long Island).

The reassignment of industrial space to the arts is a positive way to stimulate business and in-city living.

A Jane Jacobs model (urban planner) is worth exploring.

And, btw, my former partner is an urban planner, and thus my extra-ordinary interest in city planning.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by ontheroad

Several cities are working with Artspace as part of a city renaissance. They were interviewed on Lost and Saved on WJFF (Jeffersonville, NY) today. Apparently they just did a project in Buffalo, and plan several others in both large and smaller cities (one in central Long Island).

The reassignment of industrial space to the arts is a positive way to stimulate business and in-city living.

A Jane Jacobs model (urban planner) is worth exploring.

And, btw, my former partner is an urban planner, and thus my extra-ordinary interest in city planning.

There are actually already plans to bring artists' colonies to the Electric City. The old Scranton Lace building in Dan's neighborhood of Lower Green Ridge was one potential location, as was the 500-block of Lackawanna Avenue in Center City. It was nice how Jerry Joyce redeveloped an old silk mill in the city's Petersburg neighborhood into a mixed-use development of offices and lofts, and he's currently redeveloping an old industrial site downtown into more high-end apartments (which was just dealt a major blow due to that major fire last week).

[ontheroad]

Good to hear. When I visit Scranton (after the snow, the ice, and the wind stops), I'll give Dan a call and perhaps he'll show me around. I am sure I'll learn a great deal by a visit!

Originally Posted by SWB

There are actually already plans to bring artists' colonies to the Electric City. The old Scranton Lace building in Dan's neighborhood of Lower Green Ridge was one potential location, as was the 500-block of Lackawanna Avenue in Center City. It was nice how Jerry Joyce redeveloped an old silk mill in the city's Petersburg neighborhood into a mixed-use development of offices and lofts, and he's currently redeveloping an old industrial site downtown into more high-end apartments (which was just dealt a major blow due to that major fire last week).

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by SWB

I concur wholeheartedly. Scranton City Council meetings have become such a joke and a mockery to the political process because instead of taking the approach we are taking on this forum to brainstorm ways to IMPROVE the city, those who approach the podium simply BASH the political figures personally because they all have vendettas and feel "victimized" by this "regime." At least during the one time that I did happen to approach the podium (which I probably won't do again since I'm sure people would squawk that non-residents "have no right to speak") I used my time constructively to pitch an idea (albeit one that I later rescinded). What strategies has Fay Franus offered to improve the city? Les Spindler? Joe Pilchesky? Andy Sbaraglia? Bill Jackowitz? These people are a blight upon the city. For every one person like Dan, Marie Schumacher, Douglas Miller, etc. that actually have IDEAS, there are two others who have nothing to say other than "I could do a better job." Well then let them run for office! I'm sure Scranton will become vibrant under the brilliant leadership of Mayor Spindler.

We need more "thinkers" and "movers and shakers" in Scranton as opposed to b*tchers and gripers. What's been done has been done, for better or worse. GET OVER IT! Pessimism and pettiness over things that happened in 2002 or about "Jimmy got a bigger piece of pie than I did" doesn't attract new business and/or residential growth; optimism and progressivness DOES! I have a lot of ideas in my mind I'd love to implement someday---perhaps not as a city council member but definitely as a neighborhood association president.

Paul, I have met all of these people at council meetings. Fay, Les, Andy and Bill are all good people. They are the working class of Scranton and like myself are fed up with the current administration and the way it is run and driving Scranton right into the ground. We all live in Scranton and have a right to speak out against our government, just like all Americans have a right to speak out against the President. We can't all run for office, but we expect our elected officials to at least have our best interests most of the time. Doherty and his crew do not. Maybe their squawking gets a little tiring, but so is the way this city is run. They are not a blight to this city, they pay taxes and live here and know the real score. The meetings are the only way for citizens to speak out against the Doherty machine.

[WasPA]

Originally Posted by ontheroad

Several cities are working with Artspace as part of a city renaissance. They were interviewed on Lost and Saved on WJFF (Jeffersonville, NY) today. Apparently they just did a project in Buffalo, and plan several others in both large and smaller cities (one in central Long Island).

The reassignment of industrial space to the arts is a positive way to stimulate business and in-city living.

A Jane Jacobs model (urban planner) is worth exploring.

Particularly salient since Jane Jacobs was a native of Scranton! One could assume or at least easily imagine that Scranton itself served as a model for her urban sensibilities.......


Wilkes-Barre has been looking into Artspace, I believe