If things are so bad in NEPA, why do people stay? (Scranton: crimes, loan)

[Baltic_Celt]

Originally Posted by SWB

Am I missing something?

Perhaps, yes.

Can someone please point out to me where I implied that I was ageist because if that was implied anywhere within my reply, I most certainly had not intended for it to be taken in that context.

Ah, gee... I already did. I've addressed your words directly, twice, in my posts in this thread (& I strongly dislike reiteration - reading it or writing it), so I'm sorry, you're on your own to re-read them, should you desire.


Re: "Seriously, KittensPurr, I don't quite know what in particular you were reading into my last reply, but I can assure you that being "ageist" is not in my vocabulary."

Perhaps let it go & then re-read later. You're also casually disregarding the majority of my points to focus on one... perhaps as you don't wish to address them (fair enough, then)... points I quite clearly fleshed out by making reference to your exact quotes. I don't believe I read anything into your words. I did say that you were at times either careless with them or presenting an ageist point of view... again, only 1 point & you're choosing to focus on 1/2 of it. I can't help you beyond what I've already said. If you don't see it, you don't...


Re: "It's actually the adult learners who should be lauded the most for managing to struggle to raise a family, hold down a part-time job, and attend night classes. I never implied anything to the contrary."

Adult learner? Firstly, anyone over 18 is an adult legally, meaning the vast majority of advanced education students are adults. It's not a "my dog is bigger than yours" contest. We all choose our situations. Most of us can change them, if we desire, as CoArtist & others pointed out here. Anyone going to school to better their earning potential, gain knowledge & a worthwhile career that will make them happy to get up each day, all deserve kudos for making an effort, whether one is married & a spouse pays all/part of tuition/living expenses, or has parents who do, or goes it alone. Most importantly, expressed gratitude is important to remember the blessing of "easier" situations where help is granted & fingerwagging at someone who can't go it alone financially or otherwise to advance through educational endeavors is unjustified & shows an unnecessary lack of sympathy. Not everyone has the same advantages. Not everyone can achieve the same.

Similarly, those who forge their own entrepreneurial way or go the 3rd route of being a lifelong employee, deserve kudos for getting out of bed to make a living the best they can. Effort needs to be applauded in all situations... my continual point here. This is in direct contrast to your oft-written assertions that anyone who hasn't earned $$$ is to blame for a lower paying salary. Not always... again re-read, expand your knowledge of life's situations & understand that we are not all the same, have not all been dealt the same cards & sometimes even those who earn minimum/lower wages are doing the bloody best they can to pave their way & stay afloat, waiting for the right time & space to further their goals. Each of us is individual. We cannot blanket statement any POV in regard to education or employment.

Not everyone has the luxury of not having to work to put oneself through school. Some people can't currently go to school PT & work FT. There are as many exceptions as there are ways to succeed - in the cases of having a behavior-challenged child that no sitter will watch; special needs children/spouse/parent who need round the clock care; valid fears in allowing strangers to caretake a child; never enough $ to afford childcare & tuition; a divorced spouse left in serious debt by the ex with no recourse for financial assistance; people who can't get loans/grants/scholarships & can't afford tuition otherwise; wanting to complete a program that requires FT days & insists on no work (such as several medical programs); people who have the desire/skills, but are with ill health (migraines/fatigue/any physical illness) who spend every ounce of energy just to get through their daily jobs; employees who have to work regular/inconsistent OT; those who live in dangerous areas, are public transit bound where night commutes are dangerous... & the list can go on & on.

Conversely, I believe strongly in putting our minds to something & a solution will eventually be revealed. Sometimes the only choice, as with many situations above, is to wait it out - 'til the kids grow older, jobs change, living arrangements change, schedules change, a raise/promotion comes around, etc. I also fully recognize that we are not all the same & some view obstacles as barriers to be overcome & others are bowled over by them. We are not all the same. Criticism/blame doesn't always fairly address reasons someone may be stuck in a particular situation, Paul... something your words often indicate you've little compassion for. They may eventually change, have a breakthrough & overcome their obstacles. Ill thoughts directed toward them for it being "their faults with no one else to blame" serves no one & certainly doesn't make it easier for those who are struggling day by day to find their solution.

[Baltic_Celt]

Originally Posted by coartist88

You can just about do anything in life if you put your mind to it, I just retired after 20 years of law enforcement, started in my 20's and retired in my 40's
I had a plan, it depends on how bad you want something and how much you are willing to sacrifice.I had to work weekends Holidays, overtime, but I knew what I was doing and what the end result would be. Alot of times people don't apply themselfs, there are alot of opportunity out there people just want it handed to them and don't want to sacrifice or work for it, It doesn't matter how old you are,If you have the desire and drive you can do it! If there are no jobs in the area for some of the locals why don't they get on one of the martz bus lines and take some state and federal jobs( most don't require residency) Life is what you make it thats the bottom line! You could complain all you want about things it's when you start finding solutions to the problems you complain about, "Now thats what I'm talking about"

Another great story, congrats. I know 2 people who retired from the USAF at the ripe old age of 37 with nice pensions. They live very comfortable lives, one in NEPA, & both joined the military with these retirement goals in mind.

One spends his days fishing & raised his daughter. His wife worked & he wasn't really a "stay at home dad" as he made more $$ through pension than his working wife. The other, in Boston, has her own cookie biz & supplies her homemade goodies to local restaurants. Both love their retirements.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by Chefkey

I have noticed a reduction in the amount of positive posts on this board. Maybe it's the economy, maybe it's just left over angst from a grandfathers' misfortune. No matter what the reason life is too short to go around complaining and depressed.

Running will not solve anything and for the 100th time, the valley is no where near as dangerous as most of the other major cities in America.

Perhaps it's because everyone is depressed and stressed out? Just tonight I had an irate customer screaming at me on the phone for 10 minutes to "punish" me because my department manager and another associate sold him a snow blower without ensuring that he was given a quart of oil along with it, even though this year's models do NOT come with a free quart of oil. People are just downright nasty anymore; I'm especially shocked by how condascending and nasty KittensPurr has been to ME in this thread without provocation. I seemed to have stricken some sort of nerve somewhere within her emotions, and I apologize for it. I've reviewed my replies, and I still don't see anything offensive about them. It sounds to me as if someone is venting their own financial frustrations upon me, which I don't appreciate at all.

[ScranBarre]

KittensPurr, I just re-read your replies, and all I got out of it was a tinge of class envy. Yes, my parents did both go to college to better themselves socioeconomically, and yes, they are helping me currently to finance college (which I'll be paying them back in the future once I'm financially secure myself), but I'm also thousands of dollars in student loan debt. One need not be "wealthy" at all to go to college. I receive a scholarship of $12,500 per year to attend King's that I earned based upon my own GPA and high SAT score in high school, financial aid, and then the remaining several thousand dollar annual balance is split half between my parents and my student loans, in addition to working 35 hours per week. If you want to talk about "ungrateful", then consult the balance of my peers at King's, many of whom drive nicer vehicles to campus than my parents can afford on their upper-middle-class incomes, before you have the nerve to imply the same about me.

"Adult learner" isn't a term I pulled out of my derriere. Some colleges actually advertise the fact that they have "adult learner" programs, and the fact that you were offended by that comment baffles me. Have you honestly never heard that before? With all of the intellectual energy in Boston, I'm aghast that you've never seen your neighborhood college campuses trying to "recruit" middle-aged students.

Why don't you just come out bluntly and say what is on your mind instead of just beating around the bush? I used to think you were a very nice, optimistic woman, but man has my impression of you deteriorated!

[Chefkey]

Originally Posted by SWB

Perhaps it's because everyone is depressed and stressed out? Just tonight I had an irate customer screaming at me on the phone for 10 minutes to "punish" me because my department manager and another associate sold him a snow blower without ensuring that he was given a quart of oil along with it, even though this year's models do NOT come with a free quart of oil. People are just downright nasty anymore; I'm especially shocked by how condascending and nasty KittensPurr has been to ME in this thread without provocation. I seemed to have stricken some sort of nerve somewhere within her emotions, and I apologize for it. I've reviewed my replies, and I still don't see anything offensive about them. It sounds to me as if someone is venting their own financial frustrations upon me, which I don't appreciate at all.

SWB, try not to let other bad attitudes irk you. I remember working at a grocery store and having irate customers. I simply smiled and kept my responses cheerful and most important, empty. I didn't give them verbal fuel to grow their fire upon. Regarding KittensPurr, she comes off as a very nice person and I'm pretty sure she didn't mean anything more than to disagree with a viewpoint.

Anyhow, every have a great weekend and... Happy Snow!

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Ah, gee... I already did. I've addressed your words directly, twice, in my posts in this thread (& I strongly dislike reiteration - reading it or writing it), so I'm sorry, you're on your own to re-read them, should you desire.

Yes. I've BEEN re-reading my replies and don't see any sort of offensiveness, so now I'm posting the entirety of your remarks towards me so we can sift through them together to see just where exactly we're not seeing eye-to-eye.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Ah, gee, not all families, regardless of wealth, support their children while they're going to school or while they forgo the education route to persue their own start-ups. Not all individuals, regardless of age, have a family to fall back on. Many individuals need to make it solely on their own, from the moment they graduate HS, in which case their personal "wealth" is of vast import. As someone returning to school, I can attest that scholarships, grants & loans are not readily available to all individuals. "Family" isn't a benefit at all in many situations.
Gratitude for one's blessings & advantages indicates real growth & maturity. We don't all have the same blessings & advantages.

I strongly disagree. Anyone can go to college if they truly wish to do so. It may not be desirable to dig oneself into tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt while trying to juggle raising a child, tending to a romantic pursuit, paying a mortgage, holding a full-time job, etc., but thousands of Americans (stressed out ones may I add) do this on a daily basis. I should know because there are often days when I'll leave my home at 7:30 AM for school and won't get back home until 11:00 PM after work; during these hours I'll only eat one meal. Going to school requires a plethora of self-discipline, sacrifice, and willpower, but anyone can do it if they WANT to! With affirmative action we're even seeing more poor inner-city minorities advancing their educations and living the American dream whereas their parents' generation had no hope beyond the slums.

In your last statement I'm getting an obvious sense of class envy, almost as if you resent me for going to college at a young age. Why? I have no idea why you would imply this about me. You make it sound like I'm somehow more "priviledged" than anyone else when that is obviously not the case. I'm tooling around in a 10-year-old Ford sedan with squeaky doors, rust marks, and 96,000 miles, working myself ragged, enduring severe depression with frequent thoughts of suicide, and am fortunate to have a social life once a week. Yes, I have a roof over my head, food on the table, and heat emanating from the radiators, but so does almost all of our nation!

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Modest living gained by trade school? Doesn't this contradict your points before that one doesn't need an education for financial reward? In your estimation, shouldn't this modest-incomed person be going on to persue advanced sports nutrition/physical therapy/personal training licenses/certifications/degrees? What if their living is modest in 10-yrs? Lazy? Unmotivated? Unambitious? Not entrepreneurial enough? Unlucky?

Have you ever heard of a high school vocational-technical program in which students will spend half their day at their public high school and the other half learning about trades, apprenticing, etc.? I myself don't have the patience to work in a skilled manual trade, but I highly respect those who do. I don't know of one electrician, contractor, mason, auto mechanic, etc. that is "struggling." Vo-tech schools are free of charge, and local contractors often recruit vo-tech graduates to apprentice with them before offering them a position with their companies.

No, one does not NEED an education for financial success, but it most certainly helps your odds, does it not? As evidenced by the U.S. Census statistics I referenced, a high proportion of higher-earners in our nation possess an education. That's merely FACT; it's not an elitist statement.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Same questions as above apply... I come from a family of predominantly medical workers - from doctors to RN's to nurse's aides. LPN's earn a modest income.

You come from a family of medical workers (i.e. middle-class). I come from a family of retail/tech workers (i.e. middle-class). Show me how I'm somehow "above" you.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

They even permit middle-agers to attend? Wow. Yep, sometimes even without our walkers & canes if we can spring up the front stairs in time for class with our bulky, yellow sweaters & tri-focals. We fossils often meet before class, in coffee klatches, to discuss our oncoming demise & the puzzling styles of the wipper-snappers in our classes. Dagnabit. You're either careless with your words or an ageist, something you often accuse others of being when they point out that you've little life experience & are naive. Ahhh... seems to be. Intelligence has no boundaries. Neither does prejudice. A middle-aged dollar spent towards education is the same as an education dollar from a youngster who lives at home & has expenses paid by middle-aged parents... except the middle-agers seem to be footing the majority if not all of the bill in either scenario.

Stop with your class envy already! It wasn't "amusing" the first time, nor is it "cute" now. Show me where I said that young college students were superior in some way, shape, or form to middle-aged college students. I had a night accounting class two semesters ago that was dominated by students in their 30s and 40s, and we became rather close socially. Where's your evidence to reinforce your claim? It sounds like you think you're getting picked on by a "youngster," and that was NEVER the case; you just took things WAY out of context to start a fight in a rather innocuous thread. You know NOTHING about my personal life, so how dare you imply that you know how my education is being financed. Do I look at all of the Audis and Lexuses that surround me at traffic lights in Pittston Township and begrudge those people for being "blessed" in life? Nope. Why are you doing the same here to me? If you're miserable in life, then pull yourself up by the bootstraps and FIX IT instead of begrudging and bemoaning others for having what you didn't have at a younger age. I'm sorry that life has been difficult for you, but it's also been difficult for many, many others as well who don't make such hurtful remarks out of envy.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

True & not entirely true. It's not that simple... too many other variables come into play. I've worked for 3 companies which bought-out or were bought-out by other companies, fired all the local employees & brought their own with them, across state lines. I've also worked for 2 companies which closed their doors & relocated to small towns in the south because they could receive clients in a more hospitable climate (so the story was told, since clients routinely flew in anyway & they could benefit by wining, dining & golfing with them) & workers accepted less salary because the local COL was significantly lower. These were companies in huge cities such as Seattle, San Diego, L.A. (& even London), not small towns. Had nothing to do with uneducated/inexperienced local employees. Many companies don't do business in a particular locale due to taxes, laws, licensing requirements, land restrictions, building costs.

Yes. I provided five generally expected reasons why a company may decide to invest in a new area, and while quality of the workforce was indeed one of them that I mentioned, I also mentioned "taxes", "building costs", etc. A business is solely looking out for its own profitability; a high-paying, high-tech firm won't come to Scranton if it deems this new location to put them in no better financial position than where they were previously. The level of average skill of the workforce in the area IS normally looked at; it would be an added expense for this company to pay to relocate all of its existing employees or to extensively train new employees in a new area.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

It's easy to hire good people, or people with much less experience/training who will take a job for a particular wage. I know someone who's currently interviewing in Boston for entry-level jobs & is being told there are hundreds of applicants for receptionist jobs. Many are over-qualified but their jobs were outsourced & they need to eat. I've gotten hired for out of state jobs several times & then relocated cross country for the jobs. Particularly in this day & age... many are not strictly loyal to the area in which they were born. Many have scattered families or none & will move elsewhere, if financially necessary or should they not be able to secure employment in their fields where they live now.

The economy is heading into a rather severe recession. We're all aware of this. Large U.S. corporations continue to export skilled labor opportunities overseas as these same positions are replaced by much lower-paying ones; my own family experienced this when my father's salary was nearly halved when IBM moved its Scranton branch to India in the early-2000s. I myself am not "above" working in professions out of my field and/or comfort zone until something becomes available locally. The economy is faltering everywhere, not just Boston or NEPA.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Something that keeps getting skimmed over... when we go out to eat, purchase products or secure vairous services, we are often served by lower paid individuals. Some are only capable of this kind of "clerk" work. Not everyone can do something else. And, while I agree that one perhaps isn't best served by increasing family size in these economic situations... well, life experiences teaches that these things do happen, either by choice or unintentially. I know of 2 situations where someone suddenly had multiple children... a sibling died & in each case, the individual decided to raise them rather than give them up for adoption. Were they choosing poverty? Although some may differ in opinion, these people did the best they could at that time.

What does this have to do with our discussion? Adversity happens. It's all part of life. I cry sometimes to see dementia overtake my grandmother to the point where she can't even remember my name. I stress myself out so much trying to keep my partner hidden from my family that I occasionally have shortness of breath (no small feat for an avid runner). Do I let my manic depression hold me back from trying to succeed in life? No. If others do, then that's their own perrogative, and I can't say I have much sympathy for them. We ALL fall on rough times for a few months or a couple of years at a time sometimes and need a shoulder to lean on, but there's no excuse in this day and age of social welfare programs, scholarships, charity, etc. that one has to dwell in such doldrums interminably.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

One must take all situations into account. There are always exceptions. Remember this the next time you go through a drive-thru or pay for your gas. These attendants are earning an honest wage, many doing the best they can, many doing all they can do & yes, some who don't wish to do anything else. Please have some compassion & understanding & don't judge them based on what you think they should do.

What are you talking about? I myself am a retail grunt who takes turns scrubbing toilets and emptying coffee-stained and diaper-infested trash bins with my bare hands. I'm always kind to other retail associates, and I specifically refuse to go to a full-service gas station because I always feel "snobby" sitting in my heated sedan while watching some person shivering in the cold to pump my gas for me when I should be suffering myself for the benefit of a full tank. I specifically said that I SUPPORT vo-tech programs, trade schools, etc., and just because I said that our area needs to increase its proportion of white-collar workers to "catch up" to the rest of the state and nation doesn't meant that I detest blue-collars. If we want to remain competitive economically we NEED to diversify ourselves. Blue-collars earn lower wages, overall, than white-collars, and blue-collars tend to be more union-centric. As we've now seen, unions are starting to send our blue-collar positions (and some white-collar ones) out-of-state in droves, so a diversified economy is ESSENTIAL for our region's impending renaissance. As the proportions shift, wages will rise. Here you go with the "attacking" again, assuming I'm a white-collar elitist who "judges" the poor.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

I didn't read that anyone attacked you here. Some folks may disagree with your fingerpointing assertions, but it doesn't mean it's a personal attack. Seems quite the opposite, in fact.

Really? I still have failed to see how my initial replies were "quite the opposite." Show me how I "attacked" you and everyone else. Show me how I was "fingerpointing." If anything, you've been having a rough week and decided to vent your frustrations onto me, but you didn't bargain for the fact that I've also been having a horrid week and have been dishing back everything that has been coming my way as of late. Are you overtly "attacking" me? Not at all. Am I perceptive enough to read into your condascending tone in several parts of your replies? ABSOLUTELY, and I don't for one moment appreciate you implying that I'm a spoiled brat, elitist, ageist, silver spoon, or anything else simply because you took whatever innocent statistics I reported out of context.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Sorry, but I've seen this to be common. I went to school in Boston & the first job I was offered was out of state. There were no shortage of jobs here at that time in my field. Entry level? Ah, well that's a different story. Perhaps, entry level jobs in one's chosen field are always more difficult to come by, in which case one can leave to build up experience & return to their former area, if they desire. Your college doesn't believe in your region? They're not the employers, unless one is working for them. They can only offer leads that come in from employers who wish to offer entry-level jobs.

Perhaps you don't realize just how much our local high schools and college campuses push the "move out of NEPA while you still can" agenda down all of our throats as students. While in high school I had teachers telling me that I'd never live up to my fullest potential unless I left Pittston (of course I'm going to leave this sprawling wasteland town in the dust, but I see too much beauty and promise in the region in general to just abandon it). I had one professor last semester bash Wilkes-Barre into the ground and then say "none of you actually like this old coal town, do you?" I was the only one who raised my hand, and I was met with laughter. The intellectual community frowns upon Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, and it's a bloody shame. King's College EXCLUSIVELY pushes out-of-area firms on us and firmly EXPECTS us to take the bait. If one wishes to remain in NEPA, we must do so without our college's assistance. I'm CERTAIN that Boston's institutions don't have a similar "anti-Boston" agenda.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Perhaps, yes.

Perhaps, no. Perhaps someone is coming out of left field here to "lecture" me with all sorts of hurtful insinuations about ageism, elitistism, being spoiled, silver-spooned, etc.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Re: "Seriously, KittensPurr, I don't quite know what in particular you were reading into my last reply, but I can assure you that being "ageist" is not in my vocabulary."

Perhaps let it go & then re-read later. You're also casually disregarding the majority of my points to focus on one... perhaps as you don't wish to address them (fair enough, then)... points I quite clearly fleshed out by making reference to your exact quotes. I don't believe I read anything into your words. I did say that you were at times either careless with them or presenting an ageist point of view... again, only 1 point & you're choosing to focus on 1/2 of it. I can't help you beyond what I've already said. If you don't see it, you don't...

No. I still don't. Ageism is a two-way street. Most people take my words with a grain of salt because "kids are stupid and know nothing" (to paraphrase a past remark muttered by one of my bitter adversaries on this sub-forum). Some of my peers have brilliant minds, but the folks in NEPA want nothing to do with our ideas.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Re: "It's actually the adult learners who should be lauded the most for managing to struggle to raise a family, hold down a part-time job, and attend night classes. I never implied anything to the contrary."

Adult learner? Firstly, anyone over 18 is an adult legally, meaning the vast majority of advanced education students are adults. It's not a "my dog is bigger than yours" contest. We all choose our situations. Most of us can change them, if we desire, as CoArtist & others pointed out here. Anyone going to school to better their earning potential, gain knowledge & a worthwhile career that will make them happy to get up each day, all deserve kudos for making an effort, whether one is married & a spouse pays all/part of tuition/living expenses, or has parents who do, or goes it alone. Most importantly, expressed gratitude is important to remember the blessing of "easier" situations where help is granted & fingerwagging at someone who can't go it alone financially or otherwise to advance through educational endeavors is unjustified & shows an unnecessary lack of sympathy. Not everyone has the same advantages. Not everyone can achieve the same.

I don't get it. coartist88 was successful in his professional life. Chefkey is successful in his professional life. I respect them both greatly. I never said anything to the contrary, and I don't understand why you think I try to discredit their achievements through your own gross misinterpretations of my comments. Once again, your "advantage" comments being hurled in my general direction are becoming irritating. If I truly WAS advantaged, then wouldn't I be tooling around in a flashy newer luxury sedan or SUV like 99.9% of Pittston Township? I'm not. Wouldn't I be going for facials, teeth bleaching, and wearing Armani Exchange like my fellow nuevo riche townspeople? I'm not.

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Similarly, those who forge their own entrepreneurial way or go the 3rd route of being a lifelong employee, deserve kudos for getting out of bed to make a living the best they can. Effort needs to be applauded in all situations... my continual point here. This is in direct contrast to your oft-written assertions that anyone who hasn't earned $$$ is to blame for a lower paying salary. Not always... again re-read, expand your knowledge of life's situations & understand that we are not all the same, have not all been dealt the same cards & sometimes even those who earn minimum/lower wages are doing the bloody best they can to pave their way & stay afloat, waiting for the right time & space to further their goals. Each of us is individual. We cannot blanket statement any POV in regard to education or employment.

Where is that assertion arising from? Furthermore, what does that even mean?

Originally Posted by KittensPurr

Not everyone has the luxury of not having to work to put oneself through school. Some people can't currently go to school PT & work FT. There are as many exceptions as there are ways to succeed - in the cases of having a behavior-challenged child that no sitter will watch; special needs children/spouse/parent who need round the clock care; valid fears in allowing strangers to caretake a child; never enough $ to afford childcare & tuition; a divorced spouse left in serious debt by the ex with no recourse for financial assistance; people who can't get loans/grants/scholarships & can't afford tuition otherwise; wanting to complete a program that requires FT days & insists on no work (such as several medical programs); people who have the desire/skills, but are with ill health (migraines/fatigue/any physical illness) who spend every ounce of energy just to get through their daily jobs; employees who have to work regular/inconsistent OT; those who live in dangerous areas, are public transit bound where night commutes are dangerous... & the list can go on & on. Conversely, I believe strongly in putting our minds to something & a solution will eventually be revealed. Sometimes the only choice, as with many situations above, is to wait it out - 'til the kids grow older, jobs change, living arrangements change, schedules change, a raise/promotion comes around, etc. I also fully recognize that we are not all the same & some view obstacles as barriers to be overcome & others are bowled over by them. We are not all the same. Criticism/blame doesn't always fairly address reasons someone may be stuck in a particular situation, Paul... something your words often indicate you've little compassion for. They may eventually change, have a breakthrough & overcome their obstacles. Ill thoughts directed toward them for it being "their faults with no one else to blame" serves no one & certainly doesn't make it easier for those who are struggling day by day to find their solution.

Well, KittensPurr, consider my offer to treat you to Blue Ribbon upon your return to NEPA revoked on account of this unprovoked spat. I haven't been so personally offended in quite some time. Sure, Dan knows how to push my buttons at times with his anti-city rants (and seems to get a kick out of doing so and then laughing when I'm the one who gets the forum boot), but your words have stung deeper and to the core, even though they are without basis or merit.

Why don't you come out and say what you've been using euphemisms for throughout this entire thread: "You're a spoiled little suburban rich kid who thinks his excrement doesn't stink because he has an education while suckling on mommy and daddy's wallet." That's exactly what I needed to hear tonight. Thank you immensely. Now I can go into work tomorrow rejuvenated and ready to battle another barrage of customers who think they are "above" me, even though you apparently think that I think I'm "above" everyone else.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by Chefkey

SWB, try not to let other bad attitudes irk you. I remember working at a grocery store and having irate customers. I simply smiled and kept my responses cheerful and most important, empty. I didn't give them verbal fuel to grow their fire upon. Regarding KittensPurr, she comes off as a very nice person and I'm pretty sure she didn't mean anything more than to disagree with a viewpoint.

Anyhow, every have a great weekend and... Happy Snow!

Thanks, Chefkey! Happy Snow to you too! I'm already getting my trusty shovel dusted off for what may be our last major snow fall of the season.

As far as KittensPurr is concerned, if you read some of her comments several times, you begin to notice a trend of her nitpicking at me for being who she perceives as someone with an elitist, ageist, and/or spoiled attitude, and I'm quite offended by reading these insinuations from someone whom I used to respect very, very highly.

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by SWB

you begin to notice a trend of her nitpicking at me for being who she perceives as someone with an elitist, ageist, and/or spoiled attitude, and I'm quite offended by reading these insinuations from someone whom I used to respect very, very highly.

If you respect her that much then maybe you should not be pissed about it and try to understand it.

Paul you just don't get it.

You might think your mature for your age and you might feel like you know more then most, but are you? Do you? I know you don't want to hear it about your age but its a huge part of it.

You have these preconceived ideas of what the world is like and thats fine we all did. Your age is the reason that you can't see what she is saying and I have been saying. Lets face it in the over all sceme of things your life is fairly sheltered from reality. Your young, you have never lived on your own and you have never really been out in the world per se to see the good, the bad and the ugly of life.

You come back and read your posts 15 years from now you would see it as clear as day.

On the flip side thats life and you'll get there quick enough so don't sweat the small stuff and relax.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

If you respect her that much then maybe you should not be pissed about it and try to understand it.

Paul you just don't get it.

You might think your mature for your age and you might feel like you know more then most, but are you? Do you? I know you don't want to hear it about your age but its a huge part of it.

You have these preconceived ideas of what the world is like and thats fine we all did. Your age is the reason that you can't see what she is saying and I have been saying. Lets face it in the over all sceme of things your life is fairly sheltered from reality. Your young, you have never lived on your own and you have never really been out in the world per se to see the good, the bad and the ugly of life.

You come back and read your posts 15 years from now you would see it as clear as day.

On the flip side thats life and you'll get there quick enough so don't sweat the small stuff and relax.

Wise words, and these are points well taken. I just become very defensive whenever someone assumes that I'm well-heeled, snobbish, etc. based exclusively upon my writing style when they have never even met me in person. I have friends that run the gamut from living in trailer parks to living in McMansions. Whether you wear Route 66 or Dolce & Gabbana makes no difference to me. I'm NOT an elitist, and I was definitely getting the aura that this is what KittensPurr was suggesting in her words, which is what set me off into this argument.

Yes, I am a very gifted writer, but while I excel in certain areas (writing, photography, dancing, fashion, running, baseball, etc.), I'm ABYSMAL in other areas (science, skin care, pop culture, time management, patience, speeding, sexual immorality, calculus, karaoke, etc.) We ALL have our strengths and our weaknesses, and I think it's unfair to try to infer further shortcomings by preying upon one of someone's strengths, as I believe KittensPurr was doing here. I've heard some of the nasty things people have said about me behind my back, and KittensPurr's words stung into me like a hornet.

Nothing makes me feel worse about myself than to have someone publicly imply that I "look down on everyone." That's NOT the case at all! Am I a long-winded geek? Yes. That's the extent of my offense here. I'm generally a people-person (you have to be to survive in a retail sales career), and I associate with people based upon WHO they are, not WHAT they are.

[DITC]

I think people stay because its a nice peaceful place to live. The real estate is affordable and the roots seem to be strong. Its a quiet small city area yet you can catch NY news and sports. You have the mountains and can do both winter and summer sports. NEPA has a certain old traditional flavor that is slowly being phased out in NJ and NY by big box corporate America takeover. Like a charming 80s/90s mom and pop type feel that I love. Smiled when I saw the side of that building painted in an Italian flag off 84 West right before you turn on to 81. The few times I have been up in NEPA I have really enjoyed my stay.