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I like that Clarks Summit keeps popping up! That is definitely helpful, and I will add a star next to Lehigh Valley for my perusing THANK YOU for the heads up on towns to avoid in the area! I really appreciate it! I do want to ask though what it was/is about living in the Poconos that makes you say you would never live there again? Thanks again!
So let me first say this, it's been over 12 years since I lived in the Poconos, so some things may have changed. There were some crime issues and gang problems, traffic nightmares, poor schools, very limited shopping options, poor healthcare choices, and a lot of what I'd call "quality of life" issues. The area is populated heavily with people from NY and NJ ( full disclosure: I'm originally from NJ) and that creates a very unfriendly, urban feel. A lot of full time residents commute to jobs in NYC and they are gone from 5 or 6AM and don't get home until 7 or 8PM and leave their older kids unsupervised. There are no well paying jobs in the area. I know you said that's not an issue for you, but very few of your neighbors will be so lucky. The rural feel is ruined by some transplants from the city. Apologies if that offends anyone. In many areas there is no local law enforcement and police services are provided by the State Police. The larger private communities like Saw Creek and Pocono Country Place have armed security. That's not because they're protecting their communities from outsiders. It's to protect the security officers from certain residents. I'll never forget when we had a child's birthday party in the community center of our gated community and it was interrupted by gang bangers having a knife fight in the parking lot. Then there's the petty politics and excessive control that comes with the HOAs.
Not worth it, sadly, because the area is beautiful.
Also see a theme? It is an economically depressed area. You need a niche or you will be paid poorly. As a result, it is relatively inexpensive to live in Nepa. This is not like NJ or Philly where you or your children can apply to fortune 500 companies and expect big starting salaries and great benefits. Also you know this but if anywhere in America is on your radar the weather ihere is rough. It hasn't been warm yet and it's June. It's grey and cold a good 8 if not 9 months out of the yr. I find that more oppressive than Florida heat!!
I don't think Pa is a bad state. In fact Philly burbs are considered some of the best in the country but you need some money to live accordingly. Philly is also close to NO shore for vacations or weekends.
Pittsburgh and burbs another great area IMHO. Third I would say is Lehigh Valley. I don't even think Nepa is top 4 or 5 in my personal Pa region rankings but that's not to say you won't like it.
You have to scout it for yourself my suggestion would be visit WBarre and then determine how far from there you feel comfortable them visit Scranton and Abingtons. I would avoid Poconos at all costs. If you really want to go more rural maybe then kick around Moscow, Wayne County etc.
Then gather your thoughts come back in a a week and check out Lehigh Valley.
I respectfully totally disagree with some of your PA analysis. Pittsburgh is the best area in PA. Some real good government structures in places like Cranberry and Mars Township along with good jobs, less traffic and pretty decent transit system. People are much more down to earth in Pittsburgh and have much less ghetto looking neighborhoods. Housing, Rent and insurances are much more affordable. Philly Area is really not a nice place to live, way overpriced in insurances, local taxes and home and rentals. Do not get me wrong the Pittsburgh Area still has some terrible roads, it is STILL Pennsylvania and hellholes like Alaquippa but more affordable for what what is there.
I live in Dover Delaware and it is much favorable in Taxes than Pennsylvania. Thank God. Other than Wilmington, which is ghetto as heck anymore, it is a much better state then Pennsylvania. Better Roads, nicer people, not the slumlord row home type living as other people mentioned in PA.
I Totally disagree with the Philly Suburbs, If that's one of the best places to live in the country you got to be crazy! The Philly burbs can be rough in some areas. Look at East Suburb Bristol and West Suburb Chester PA they two of the most dangerous places in the country. Then throw in Wilmington because that is considered the Philly burbs along with Camden and Gloucester City, New Jersey which are right next to Philly and are crime ridden cesspools. The taxes are high in the Philly Burbs, with a lot of shady neighborhoods and way overpriced rent along with terrible commutes!
As far as NEPA, being so inexpensive, Some of the tax rates in some of those smaller school districts are through the roof. So much for inexpensive. Houses are also way over priced for some of the rundown neighborhoods they are in especially in places such as Scranton, Hazleton and Wilkes Barre. And the drug problem in NEPA is out of control.
So let me first say this, it's been over 12 years since I lived in the Poconos, so some things may have changed. There were some crime issues and gang problems, traffic nightmares, poor schools, very limited shopping options, poor healthcare choices, and a lot of what I'd call "quality of life" issues. The area is populated heavily with people from NY and NJ ( full disclosure: I'm originally from NJ) and that creates a very unfriendly, urban feel. A lot of full time residents commute to jobs in NYC and they are gone from 5 or 6AM and don't get home until 7 or 8PM and leave their older kids unsupervised. There are no well paying jobs in the area. I know you said that's not an issue for you, but very few of your neighbors will be so lucky. The rural feel is ruined by some transplants from the city. Apologies if that offends anyone. In many areas there is no local law enforcement and police services are provided by the State Police. The larger private communities like Saw Creek and Pocono Country Place have armed security. That's not because they're protecting their communities from outsiders. It's to protect the security officers from certain residents. I'll never forget when we had a child's birthday party in the community center of our gated community and it was interrupted by gang bangers having a knife fight in the parking lot. Then there's the petty politics and excessive control that comes with the HOAs.
Not worth it, sadly, because the area is beautiful.
WOW!!!
You know, before even starting this thread I had heard/read that very same thing a few times about the kids being left home and the "gang activity"/security/HOA business... That's so disheartening!
When we first really started looking into NEPA we fell in love with the Lake Ariel area and were even looking at "the Hideout", I believe its called. It looked SO beautiful there!!! And the houses were amazing for what you paid! Obviously "too good to be true" would be an under-statement. I am so glad I came here and got confirmation.
That being said WHAT A SHAME!!! That area is really breathtaking and with what they have available in those communities it breaks my heart to hear they are in such a state...
I think we're going to officially take the Poccono area off of our list now. Too many people saying the same thing... and I do not want my children to be mixed up with kids whose parents are OK with allowing them to run the streets where things like this are happening. I feel so bad for those kids... and their neighbors! Bored children are always the first to cause trouble...
John nailed it just stay away from the Poconos. I have several friends in State law enforcement who classify it as awful.
Crime, bad schools, big city urban attitude. Just not desirable.
Yeah, I think its time we officially remove that area from our searches. What an absolute shame! I wish I had Bill Gates level money to go in and work on turning it around! But, taking things off of my list is just as good as adding to it- if not better! You all have been so incredibly helpful
Also see a theme? It is an economically depressed area. You need a niche or you will be paid poorly. As a result, it is relatively inexpensive to live in Nepa. This is not like NJ or Philly where you or your children can apply to fortune 500 companies and expect big starting salaries and great benefits. Also you know this but if anywhere in America is on your radar the weather ihere is rough. It hasn't been warm yet and it's June. It's grey and cold a good 8 if not 9 months out of the yr. I find that more oppressive than Florida heat!!
I don't think Pa is a bad state. In fact Philly burbs are considered some of the best in the country but you need some money to live accordingly. Philly is also close to NO shore for vacations or weekends.
Pittsburgh and burbs another great area IMHO. Third I would say is Lehigh Valley. I don't even think Nepa is top 4 or 5 in my personal Pa region rankings but that's not to say you won't like it.
You have to scout it for yourself my suggestion would be visit WBarre and then determine how far from there you feel comfortable them visit Scranton and Abingtons. I would avoid Poconos at all costs. If you really want to go more rural maybe then kick around Moscow, Wayne County etc.
Then gather your thoughts come back in a a week and check out Lehigh Valley.
I am absolutely seeing a theme and it has been eye-opening for sure!!! My husband and I had a looooong talk yesterday and are starting to look more into the suburbs of Lehigh Valley and will also look closer at areas further south and west... We just fell in love with the gorgeous mountains and wooded areas and thought that with the housing prices being so reasonable we had found our place! Pictures can lie, which is why I decided to hop on here and talk to the people who know the truth... A picture can only tell you so much!
I am not as concerned with the colder/overcast weather though... As I mentioned previously, we lived in the UK for several years, both of our children were born there and we absolutely loved it. Where we lived, the sun only shone a few days out of the year, it seems... but we found it beautiful.
We were "forced" (having no other options available at the time) to move to the desert after my husband was medically discharged from the military and we have been miserable ever since. Setting aside the politics, crime, corrupt school system and dire lack of natural resources (as a means to stay on topic)... The weather is terrible here. It has been in the high 90s since early April, will get to be relentlessly around 115+ within a few weeks and will stay HOT until at least mid-late October. It might rain once or twice, but when it does it will either be for a couple of minutes, or it will completely flood EVERYTHING. That is the kind of weather we don't do well in. Some people think this is paradise and more power to them! Sincerely! We just can't hang. Also, while some people find desert scenery to be beautiful, I personally find it to all just look... dead... My husband and I grew up on the east coast and it has been calling to us since we left. Especially me, as I am a "nature child" so to speak
I am going to break it down like this:
My husband has put his foot down that Pennsylvania is going to be our home. He lived there when he went to Penn State and said that it has everything he wants and needs. Personally, I don't care what state we live in; I am happy so long as I have four seasons and space in my home for everyone to live comfortably.
All we NEED is a place in which my kids can go to school and get a GOOD public education, where they won't have to worry about being molested (its a big problem here, sadly) or harassed/attacked/shunned (I get that kids will be kids and bullies are everywhere but... some places are more tolerant than others, obviously), and where we don't have to worry about violence and rampant crime happening on or around our street in which we live...
My father (who is coming with us) wants to purchase rental properties in an area that is busy/bustling so that his rentals will always be full/sought after. My family wants to live in a suburban area with the aforementioned "perks". I think the only reason we didn't look more closely at Pittsburgh or Philly was because we (probably unjustly) believed that they, and their suburbs would be too expensive for us just starting out... Though it seems now that it may be better in the long run...
We're not going to completely cut out NEPA (though every day we tick off more and more "NO-GO" areas, it seems) but I think that I need to delve deeper into the BIG cities and their suburbs...
Our number one priority in all of this is to get our family out of this area we currently live in, as it is eventually going to devour us whole and hinder our children's future. We just need to find where in Pennsylvania our children will have the best upbringing and the best chance... And (hopefully) eventually inherit some nice real estate when we are dead and gone.
That's why I'm here and why I keep thanking you all over and over and over... This whole ordeal has been stressing me out and I still have a full year of it ahead of me! I don't want to make the wrong choice, and while you would think having so many options would be a GOOD thing, it almost seems to be making me MORE stressed about making the WRONG one! Jeez... Does that even make sense?!
I am sorry for being so long-winded. I am spinning so many plates right now and it actually feels really good to vent a bit!
The area is populated heavily with people from NY and NJ ( full disclosure: I'm originally from NJ) and that creates a very unfriendly, urban feel. A lot of full time residents commute to jobs in NYC and they are gone from 5 or 6AM and don't get home until 7 or 8PM and leave their older kids unsupervised. There are no well paying jobs in the area. I know you said that's not an issue for you, but very few of your neighbors will be so lucky. The rural feel is ruined by some transplants from the city. Apologies if that offends anyone.
John,
I must respectfully take issue with the above.
I am a "transplant" from Brooklyn. I moved here to get away from the crime, gangs, dirt, noise, and urban sprawl of the city.
You've been away 12 years. There aren't as many of us as there used to be. A lot of people were driven out by the high taxes, high cost of living, and long and expensive commute. That's why there are so many foreclosures in the Pocono Record every week- many simply walked away from their houses and moved back to the city.
The locals here hate us transplants. I have lived here 26 years and from day 1- I have never felt welcome and have been told over and over again to "go back where I came from".
The locals have blinders on, and blame us for all the negative things that have happened to the area. But they refuse to see it was local people looking to make a buck who starting selling off all the open land. And it was locals on the county and township boards who approve every single project that gets submitted, and long as they get an...um... incentive... to approve all this crap.
At one point we had 9 banks in my small town of Tannersville. Several of them have closed and the buildings are up for sale. We currently have five- count 'em- 5 waterparks in Pocono Township if you count the one at Mt. Airy now, the 2 at Camelback, the one at Great Wolf, and Kalahari.
There is another waterpark planned for an area next to the cranberry bog at the old Birchwood resort. This one has major issues, including an owner/developer who has been indicted for tax fraud at one of his other resorts in NY.
Well, last I heard it's going through anyway- as is a new drug treatment facility at the old Caesar's Brookdale off route 611.
What do ALL these projects have in common? They were all approved by locals.
We transplants get blamed for changing the area into what it is now, but is wasn't our signatures on these approvals. Even the things we voted against- like the new NCC campus in Tannersville- got built anyway after being rejected by the voters- and with OUR tax money.
If you build it, they will come.
It wasn't us transplants wanting to do all this. We moved out of the city to get away from it.
I have never felt welcome here, and personally I will take a transplant like me any day over one of these redneck locals who still, after all this time- treat me with disrespect and tell me to go back where I came from.
The rural feel here has been ruined by over-development, and that was caused by greedy locals looking to make a quick buck- not by people like me.
Also you know this but if anywhere in America is on your radar the weather ihere is rough. It hasn't been warm yet and it's June. It's grey and cold a good 8 if not 9 months out of the yr. I find that more oppressive than Florida heat!!
Thank God it's not just me... when I tell people about the weather here they don't believe me.
It's nearly mid June and I had my heat on this morning.
I would move to Florida tomorrow if I could convince my husband to do so.
I took a 1 week trip to Florida in April. In 7 days I saw more sunshine there than I have seen in a year here! And that's the God's honest truth!
I would rather endure 3 months of Florida heat, and still be able to sit outside 9 months a year, than have to endure 9 months of miserable weather and only be able to sit out 3 months a year.
People are just happier where it's warm and sunny. There are a lot of unhappy people here, for sure...
Weather has a lot to do with your outlook on life. Just look at the places that have the highest rates of alcoholism, depression, and suicide- they have one thing in commom- they're either cold or dreary and grey most of the year.
John,
I must respectfully take issue with the above.
I am a "transplant" from Brooklyn. I moved here to get away from the crime, gangs, dirt, noise, and urban sprawl of the city.
You've been away 12 years. There aren't as many of us as there used to be. A lot of people were driven out by the high taxes, high cost of living, and long and expensive commute. That's why there are so many foreclosures in the Pocono Record every week- many simply walked away from their houses and moved back to the city.
The locals here hate us transplants. I have lived here 26 years and from day 1- I have never felt welcome and have been told over and over again to "go back where I came from".
The locals have blinders on, and blame us for all the negative things that have happened to the area. But they refuse to see it was local people looking to make a buck who starting selling off all the open land. And it was locals on the county and township boards who approve every single project that gets submitted, and long as they get an...um... incentive... to approve all this crap.
At one point we had 9 banks in my small town of Tannersville. Several of them have closed and the buildings are up for sale. We currently have five- count 'em- 5 waterparks in Pocono Township if you count the one at Mt. Airy now, the 2 at Camelback, the one at Great Wolf, and Kalahari.
There is another waterpark planned for an area next to the cranberry bog at the old Birchwood resort. This one has major issues, including an owner/developer who has been indicted for tax fraud at one of his other resorts in NY.
Well, last I heard it's going through anyway- as is a new drug treatment facility at the old Caesar's Brookdale off route 611.
What do ALL these projects have in common? They were all approved by locals.
We transplants get blamed for changing the area into what it is now, but is wasn't our signatures on these approvals. Even the things we voted against- like the new NCC campus in Tannersville- got built anyway after being rejected by the voters- and with OUR tax money.
If you build it, they will come.
It wasn't us transplants wanting to do all this. We moved out of the city to get away from it.
I have never felt welcome here, and personally I will take a transplant like me any day over one of these redneck locals who still, after all this time- treat me with disrespect and tell me to go back where I came from.
The rural feel here has been ruined by over-development, and that was caused by greedy locals looking to make a quick buck- not by people like me.
I won't disagree with any of this, as I said I've been away 12 years now. I had friends there who were transplants and as I said I myself am from NJ. It's not everyone and yes the locals don't like the transplants and vice-versa. OP mentioned The Hideout which I actually used to hear good things about, but the school, traffic and shopping issues will exist wherever you are.
The area was ruined by crooked developers, no doubt about that. And they targeted NYC residents with tales of cheap housing in the country that turned into a nightmare for many, starting with the hellish commute.
As I said before, apologies if my comments offended you but I'm just relating the experience I had.
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THANK YOU for the heads up on towns to avoid in the area! I really appreciate it! I do want to ask though what it was/is about living in the Poconos that makes you say you would never live there again? Thanks again! 
I don't want to make the wrong choice, and while you would think having so many options would be a GOOD thing, it almost seems to be making me MORE stressed about making the WRONG one! Jeez... Does that even make sense?! 
