New Yorkers in NEPA, Scranton? (Dunmore, Pittston: real estate, high crime, homes)

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by SWB

You truly have nothing to fear. You might get one or two sour grapes types of attitudes from folks who think the influx of new residents from NYC/NJ is destroying our quality-of-life, but by and large that's just a bunch of hysteria.

Hysteria? I don't know about that. I don't agree that they are ruining our quality of life but the condition of the poconos and the decline of that area is directly related to the influx of out of state residents. Those residents in question are not from OHIO.

That doesn't mean that every transplant is bad and certainly not everyone is good, but for the residents of this area to be concerned is not hysteria. Its a genuine concern that this area will start to see more and more of the problems that areas like the poconos are seeing.

They haven't found any body parts in homes in Scranton yet.

By the way its NEPA and not the 7th borough of NYC and honestly I doubt that there are many residents here that would be ok with quite NEPA becoming the poconos or the 7th borough. SWB seems to be so desperate for anyone to come here that he doesn't care who it is or what they'll bring with them as long as they come.

I want new residents as well but I certainly don't want them to bring the problems with them.

At least we know that the section 8 housing in Scranton will be getting used. oooops sorry its already being heavily used.

[ScranBarre]

You're right, Dan, I do NOT care where the influx comes from. Unlike many in NEPA I'm not prejudiced and will embrace a new wave of residents into Scranton no matter WHERE they originate from---be it Staten Island or Marin County, CA. I like to view new residents on a case-by-case basis. Not everyone moving here from New York City is a "bad apple," as we've seen with coartist88, GREGGO, ScrantonVideoProductions, and a few others. Likewise not everyone moving here from Beverly Hills is a "saint" either. ANY growth is GOOD growth in a city that has shed half of its population over the past several decades, DOUBLING the tax burden on those who remain. If we were to put up a big wall around Wilkes-Barre and tell all Philadelphians to "stay out," then would we have upstanding people like Chefkey or Karnak and their families here trying to make a difference in the Diamond City? A lot of the growth here in the Pittston Area recently has been fueled by New Yorkers who value the convenience of being midway between both of our cities, and they're not here to peddle meth or molest our children, contrary to popular belief.

You have to take the good with the bad, Dan. Yes, crime has soared in the Poconos over the past two decades, but that rise in crime has been PROPORTIONAL to the explosion in sprawl and population in Monroe and Pike Counties. Cram 100,000 new residents into rural Sullivan County over the course of just 20 years too and see what happens. I blame idiotic township officials who rubber stamp massive subdivisions WITHOUT first budgeting to hire additional police officers for the "issues" that are currently making the Poconos an undesirable place to live---not those moving here seeking a better life for their families.

I'll CONTINUE to roll out the red carpet for newcomers to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, even if they are scarce as hen's teeth. You can continue to scare them away because you want Scranton to remain the same as it was 20 years ago 20 years into the future simply because you fear change while the rest of the nation passes us by technologically and socially. I've grown up here amid Generations X and Y, and I've been immersed with countless peers from NYC, NJ, and Philly, and while me may be cheaper, have less congestion, etc., we lag HORRIBLY in terms of social progression. If it takes a new wave of diversity into Scranton/Wilkes-Barre to wake people up, then so be it.

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by SWB

You can continue to scare them away because you want Scranton to remain the same as it was 20 years ago 20 years into the future simply because you fear change while the rest of the nation passes us by technologically and socially. I've grown up here amid Generations X and Y, and I've been immersed with countless peers from NYC, NJ, and Philly, and while me may be cheaper, have less congestion, etc., we lag HORRIBLY in terms of social progression. If it takes a new wave of diversity into Scranton/Wilkes-Barre to wake people up, then so be it.

I have never told anyone to not live here, but I have told them the truth and so called downside of the city and if they made the decision to not move here then at least they a made a educated decision based on the facts and reality of the region and not the Judy Garland version.

I want Scranton to progress but its need to be done at a pace that the city and residents can handle, not the pace that YOU think we should use with all your experience in urban redevelopement I would think that you would know that. The current pace has put us horribly in debt and completely mismanaged.

Exactly what would you define as technologically passed by?

Socially passed by on whose standards of the definition? THIS IS NEPA and the social structure that is in place is what makes this area what it is and I suggest if the area is not conforming to your idea of SOCIAL PROGRESSION then maybe you should find a place that is more SOCIALLY UNDERSTANDING.

Your trying to change the area to suit your desires and maybe it would be easier for you to change your social opinions of the area or just move to area that suits your desires.

SWB WROTE:
If it takes a new wave of diversity into Scranton/Wilkes-Barre to wake people up, then so be it

To wake them up to what? So what your saying is that if the area won't "WAKE UP" then we should totally change the social demographic make-up of the area as to force the change on the residents whether they like it or not as to suit your needs and desires for social acceptance?

[ScranBarre]

Dan, here are some fine examples of what I reference when state that NEPA is socially regressive and in need of an influx of progressive ideas from new transplants:

1. On the very same day that Heath Ledger was found dead in his apartment I also had work. His untimely demise, which was later linked to a drug overdose, was still unknown at the time. I entered into our break room to grab something out of my locker and walked into a hornet's nest of a conversation---one to this day that I wish I had intervened in. While these "forensics experts" were trying to pinpoint his cause of death, one said "It was probably AIDS because ALL GAY PEOPLE DIE OF AIDS." This was met with a CHUCKLE from another one and "Yeah. You're right there." from ANOTHER co-worker. If you don't see anything improper about saying things like that in the workplace, then I feel sorry for you.
2. While working at my former employer a Muslim woman wearing a Burka was pushing a shopping cart nearby. Within ten minutes I had heard two very culturally insensitive comments. One older gentleman whom I was assisting at the time nudged my arm with his elbow and whispered to me something along the lines of "Better call 911." I also saw another middle-aged man nearby staring daggers into the back of her head as she walked towards the other end of the department. If you don't seen any social injustice occurring here, then I feel sorry for you.
3. I believe it was back in 2004 that I was working at a grocery store in the Pittston suburbs when an elderly woman was in distress, claiming that someone had snatched her purse. While other good samaritans tried calming her down, I quickly dialed 911, knowing that each moment delayed made it less likely that the perpetrator could be apprehended. While talking to the 911 operator and informing them of the purse-snatching I asked the woman if she could give me a description of a suspect. She said she thought he was black. A police officer arrived within two minutes, but just before he arrived the woman's SON, who owned a restaurant at the other end of the strip mall, arrived with her purse in tow, saying "Mom. You forgot this back at the restaurant." Now, may I respectfully ask why if you didn't even see anyone near your purse why you'd automatically ASSUME he was black? How is that not social injustice occurring in NEPA?
4. Last semester I was offered an internship opportunity with a small accounting firm in the Lower West Side of the Wyoming Valley through my professor, whom I look up to. Since I'm eagerly hopeful about the potential to obtain an internship with Parente-Randolph, a larger, regional accounting firm on Public Square in the Diamond City, I respectfully declined the offer but thanked him for it nonetheless. I immediately recommended a female classmate of mine who had great grades, a wonderful personality, and a similar desire to stay in the Wyoming Valley after college, and I was floored when I was met with "They aren't looking for a woman." This girl is very kind, professional, and is equally as capable of performing an accounting internship as I am. If anything I'm glad that I now know that this firm discriminates against gender so I know not to give them my business in the future. How is that not social injustice occurring in NEPA?
5. While we're on the topic of being narrow-minded towards transplants, let's examine your OWN nasty comment earlier about Section 8 housing. Look at the transplants who have moved to Lackawanna or Luzerne Counties in the psat year from this forum's advice alone---EnyaGirl, new2pa, ScrantonVideoProductions, blip, coartist88, soon-to-be Georgia to Northeast PA, etc. These are all seemingly upstanding middle-class people, at least half of whom hail from the NYC/NJ/Philly area which you decry. I hear your voice reverberating daily at work when "natives" look at the influx of license plates hailing from NY or NJ with contempt and disgust. Why? How can you judge someone simply based on what geographic location they originate from? You can continue to say whatever you want about me, Dan, but your narrow-minded outlook towards anything related to the BosWash Corridor and Scranton is yet another fine example of being socially regressive. These folks aren't moving here to take advantage of us. On the contrary I'd love to meet Chefkey someday and buy he and his wife a nice steak dinner somewhere to thank them for remaining so upbeat about the city. You can continue to look at those from NYC, NJ, and Philly with a negative outlook whereas I'll judge based upon my OWN experiences with DOZENS of transplants in my own township, workplace, and campus who buck your stereotypes of bringing undesirable qualities to our region.

I could continue, but I know from past experience that you claim to only read the first and last paragraphs that I post, so it would be pointless anyways. I never knew that demanding tolerance and respect towards people of different races, customs, traditions, genders, and sexual orientations was somehow thinking I was "above" NEPA. In just about any other part of the Northeast such actions would be viewed as being reprehensible and unconscionable, yet here I experience such injustices on a daily basis. Notice how I conveniently even left out the incidents I had with neo-Nazi-laden hate mail and death threats back in 2005 and 2006 for (relative) brevity's sake. If it takes a mass influx of folks from the city to transform Scranton overnight and erode these outdated cultural Archie Bunker-like mindsets, then so be it. I love this area too much to simply give up on it and move to a more diverse, tolerant area like Boston, New York, New Jersey, or SEPA. Why should I have to move somewhere that is living in the 21st Century when I could simply strive to improve our existing area up to that level, as we SHOULD be?

[ScrantonVideoProduction]

Originally Posted by Positiveone

We are originally from Long Island NY, currently we are living in Henderson Nevada. We were wondering how well New Yorkers are accepted in NEPA?

We were researching Lancaster County Pa for awhile but many friends said that its tough for New Yorkers to be accepted there. Is that the same for the Scranton Suburbs?

Can you recommend any nice, suburban areas to live within 20-30 mins of Scranton?

we are hoping to find good schools, low crime area and an area with housing in the 240-315,000 range.

Thanks

My wife & I moved from Turtle Bay Towers on 2nd avenue and 46th street to Big Bass Lake in Gouldsboro 18 years ago, our children went through the North Pocono Schools and are now at Penn State Smeal College of Business. Big Bass was a great place to raise a family. The nature, the pools, the lake and ski slopes were great for the kids, it was easy to meet the locals once I joined the volunteer fire department, and my wife joined the PTA.

In March '07 we moved to East Scranton & love everything about living here, the people are great.

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by SWB

I could continue, but I know from past experience that you claim to only read the first and last paragraphs that I post, so it would be pointless anyways..

In just about any other part of the Northeast such actions would be viewed as being reprehensible and unconscionable,
HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?

yet here I experience such injustices on a daily basis. Notice how I conveniently even left out the incidents I had with neo-Nazi-laden hate mail and death threats back in 2005 and 2006 for (relative) brevity's sake. If it takes a mass influx of folks from the city to transform Scranton overnight and erode these outdated cultural Archie Bunker-like mindsets, then so be it. I love this area too much to simply give up on it and move to a more diverse, tolerant area like Boston, New York, New Jersey, or SEPA. Why should I have to move somewhere that is living in the 21st Century when I could simply strive to improve our existing area up to that level, as we SHOULD be?

Again these are your PERSONAL EXPERIENCES and you want the area to change for you because YOU feel that certain things are inappropriate.

I agree that there are certain incidents that are wrong but guess what Paul its like that everywhere. Blah Blah Hate mail whatever Paul I have a stack of it and ignorance is not just limited to this area.

Plain and simple you are socially different and you don't like the fact that your not accepted here in NEPA as a equal, well thats life and there are people all over this country that have to deal with far greater injustices then you feeling uncomfortable here in NEPA.

Social injustice is nationwide and just because you read about certain areas in the country that are more understanding doesn't mean squat.

You really have no idea how we stack up against other areas of this country socially because you have been nowhere!

People are going to be the way they are and by drowning the area in transplants is not the answer to your social problems.
Sure there are some nice people here that have transplanted and I agree that the ones on this board are some very nice people for as much as I know about them from a anonymous message board.

I have one question for you. If someone lived outside this area in say NJ or NY do you think that makes them socially understanding?

I know some people in Harrison NJ that are about as socially accepting as the Klan so what if they move here do you think that they would automatically understand your plight and change their racist ways?

You crave acceptance here on CD and I'm sure out there in the real world or as much of it as you see and you almost seem to demand it, so lets get this strait once and for all.

Your unhappy socially and you feel that you would be more accepted publically if there were people here from the socially understanding capitals of the country like NJ and NY? Ok now I get it.

This is more about you and society then it really is about the economic and social structure of NEPA and how the influx can hurt or help us.

Maybe a move to San Fran or South Beach to obtain the social acceptance that you seem to crave instead of trying to uproot decades if not centuries of a social structure and replace it with transplants to suit your needs would be a better idea because it all comes back to you and what YOU FEEL is wrong.

This seems to be a personal problem and not really a regional issue as much as you would like us to think.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Again these are your PERSONAL EXPERIENCES and you want the area to change for you because YOU feel that certain things are inappropriate.

Well for the sake of NEPA I hope it is FAR more than just myself that finds "innapropriateness" in not only those five scenarios I provided for your perusal but MANY more as well.

Originally Posted by weluvpa

I agree that there are certain incidents that are wrong but guess what Paul its like that everywhere. Blah Blah Hate mail whatever Paul I have a stack of it and ignorance is not just limited to this area.

The key difference of course is that the hate mail I received was unprovoked---it was the price I paid for being the only OPENLY homosexual male in a narrow-minded community replete with closet-cases. I had someone send me that threatening stuff out of the blue. You put yourself into harm's way as a target in a similar fashion to Joe Pilchesky by threatening people's personal careers by exposing their political corruption. They had an understandable (albeit still inexcusable) motive to harass you. What was the justification for the threats I received other than "we don't take kindly to your kind 'round these parts?"

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Plain and simple you are socially different and you don't like the fact that your not accepted here in NEPA as a equal, well thats life and there are people all over this country that have to deal with far greater injustices then you feeling uncomfortable here in NEPA.

Dan, this is why along with listing an example of this area's homophobia I provided FOUR OTHER SCENARIOS showing how folks were narrow-minded towards someone of a different gender, different race, different religious affilliation, and in your case a different geographic residency. People have no more of a right to make any of them feel unwelcomed here for their idiosyncracies than people have a right to make ME feel unwelcome. Why should I adopt a defeatist position on this issue with "Oh well. Such is life" just because you TELL me to? If I see a social injustice occurring here in NEPA, you're damn straight I'm going to cause a scene over it, and if people don't like it then I suggest that THEY move to Alabama---not force ME to move to Boston!

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Social injustice is nationwide and just because you read about certain areas in the country that are more understanding doesn't mean squat.

Please elaborate on "doesn't mean squat." When I visit Manhattan and can see people from all walks of life co-existing harmoniously as they pass each other walking down Broadway, there is NO BLOODY REASON why just two hours west the same can't be possible. If people around here cared less about what everyone else was doing (or in my case WHOM everyone else was doing) and more about themselves, then perhaps those of us who have felt the sting of discrimination wouldn't be so enraged?

Originally Posted by weluvpa

You really have no idea how we stack up against other areas of this country socially because you have been nowhere!

I wouldn't consider Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Orlando, Washington, DC, etc. to be "nowhere." I may not have resided in any of these places, but when it comes to this issue all one must do is spend several days observing the general reactions folks have towards one another when they are faced with people of varying cultural backgrounds and draw your own conclusions. I don't see morons staring blankly at gay couples, women in Burkas, etc. as so many do around here. Yes, we're different. GET OVER IT!

Originally Posted by weluvpa

People are going to be the way they are and by drowning the area in transplants is not the answer to your social problems.
Sure there are some nice people here that have transplanted and I agree that the ones on this board are some very nice people for as much as I know about them from a anonymous message board.

Well, Dan, that what exactly is the answer to "my" social problems? Enlighten me, please. I've tried speaking out when I hear people make racist remarks or jokes, yet all that does is upset people. I've tried lecturing people, but that also upsets people. I figure if you can't beat 'em, then just drown 'em out with a greater proportion of voices of reason until they finally feel outnumbered enough to shut up.

Originally Posted by weluvpa

I have one question for you. If someone lived outside this area in say NJ or NY do you think that makes them socially understanding?

First off I should probably clarify that I meant to imply "Greater NYC" when I said NY, as I realize Upstate NY is overall a mirror image of this area's social attitude. With that in mind, my answer would be YES! Why, may you ask? On average people in NJ and Greater NYC have been exposed on a more regular basis to people of all walks of life and are resultingly less apt to have a stupid "deer in headlights" look if and when someone different pass by them on the sidewalk. People here still use the words "retard" and "f*g" to put one another down, and when I tell them that using such comments are quite offensive towards some groups, I get death glares in return. The more you are exposed towards something, the more familiar you become towards it, and the less likely it is to evoke a negative response from you. I have to say that the homophobia I faced several years ago was from people who had never met another gay male before they met me (or at least so they thought, but I digress). The only prior "experience" they had with the LGBT community was from what Ann Coulter, Mike Huckabee, Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh, and other world geniuses indoctrined into their family's minds, so when they found out about me of course they were going to have that same "gays have cooties" reaction. I hope an influx of diverse New Yorkers overtakes this region overnight so that the bigots here can have a TOTAL culture shock that will snap them into the reality of no matter what color our skin us, whom we date, or what religious organization we belong to, we're really not substantially different as members of the human race. The sooner people in NEPA realize this, the better our chances of being viewed as a "progressive" area that can in turn lure in new residents and investors.

Originally Posted by weluvpa

I know some people in Harrison NJ that are about as socially accepting as the Klan so what if they move here do you think that they would automatically understand your plight and change their racist ways?

I know some folks in the rural South (including some of my relatives) who are amongst the most liberal and accepting people you'll find anywhere. What's your point?

Originally Posted by weluvpa

You crave acceptance here on CD and I'm sure out there in the real world or as much of it as you see and you almost seem to demand it, so lets get this strait once and for all.

Actually I don't crave acceptance here on City-Data, and I'm well aware that a number of people don't care for me. That's fine. I feel I've done more good than bad during my tenure on here, and if folks like you choose to let the bad overshadow the good, then that's their loss. I don't demand "acceptance," but I DO demand "tolerance." There's a fine line there that it seems many don't seem to understand. By "tolerance" I mean that I should be able to have people learn that I'm gay and NOT have to worry about others going out of their way to make things miserable for me or my partner through backstabbing comments, hate mail, references to Hitler, shoves in the school corridors, etc. By "acceptance" it would be more or less expecting everyone to roll out the red carpet for us, which I do NOT expect. I don't "accept" most Republicans for what I perceive to be their outdated social beliefs, but I DO "tolerate" them. I don't "accept" smokers for infringing upon my ability to breathe relatively clean air in public establishments, but I DO "tolerate" them. Similarly, people in NEPA need to learn that just because they don't happen to "like" something or if they happen to think it's morally improper, then they STILL have to TOLERATE it. I don't like Ann Coulter, but I DO tolerate her. People on City-Data don't seem to like me, but they DO tolerate me. If people in NEPA would learn to stop unwantedly shoving their noses into other people's personal affairs in order to make them miserable, then our region wouldn't have such a redneck reputation.

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Your unhappy socially and you feel that you would be more accepted publically if there were people here from the socially understanding capitals of the country like NJ and NY? Ok now I get it.

You get it, eh? Perhaps there's hope for you after all then. YOU are the one implying that I'm unhappy socially, Dan. Yes, I've been the victim repeatedly of nastiness and unpleasantness from the lesser educated echelons of society in NEPA going out of their way to make themselves feel better morally by putting me down and dragging my reputation through the trash for no reason other than I violate their religious beliefs, but overall I'm still (somewhat) happy in life. All you can do is ream people out when the p*ss you off and then do it all over again the next day; you should be an expert on this by now.

Originally Posted by weluvpa

This is more about you and society then it really is about the economic and social structure of NEPA and how the influx can hurt or help us.

Say what you will, Dan, but if you look at some of the most socially progressive cities in our nation and compare THEIR median household incomes, THEIR quality-of-life rankings, THEIR ability to attract and retain new residents, etc., and then compare them to the relative failures of cities with reputations for being socially REGRESSIVE, then you'll see a trend emerging. If Scranton wants to pull itself up by the bootstraps in order to attract better paying career opportunities, improve our quality-of-life, etc., then it has to stop trying to live in the past and cling to the OUTDATED social mores of Archie Bunker.

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Maybe a move to San Fran or South Beach to obtain the social acceptance that you seem to crave instead of trying to uproot decades if not centuries of a social structure and replace it with transplants to suit your needs would be a better idea because it all comes back to you and what YOU FEEL is wrong.

In a similar fashion I could recommend that you follow the lead of another anarchist member on the General forums who plans to relocate to rural Alaska to be as far away as he can from "Big Brother" since, just like you, everything his community's government is doing drives him insane. For your information the gay community is FAR more prevalent than in just South Beach, Frisco, Greenwich Village, or Provincetown. Some of your very own fellow city residents are likely "like me" without you even knowing it. How do I know this? I've been hit on repeatedly and unwantedly by middle-aged men on MySpace, Facebook, etc.---men who claim to be HETEROSEXUAL, as per what their profiles say anyways. If you're implying that we should all be corraled and stuffed into Frisco or South Beach, then I suggest that you and all of the other Scranton naysayers be corraled and sent to live in Camden, NJ for a while so you can see what a TRUE city in crisis looks like.

Originally Posted by weluvpa

This seems to be a personal problem and not really a regional issue as much as you would like us to think.

Once again, reread ALL FIVE SCENARIOS. People being discriminated against for ANY REASON is GROUNDS FOR CONCERN to many more than just myself! What if a woman from this forum had applied to that very same accounting position and was silently passed over due to her gender? What if a person from this forum had happened to be a hapless African-American male stopped for questioning in the Pittston 'burbs shortly after that alleged purse-snatching, a victim of racial profiling simply because the alleged victim precipitated a make-believe minority assailant? You can sweep these issues under the rug all you'd like to Dan, but just as you are the "watchdog" for city taxpayers, I'm the "watchdog" against our region's prejudiced.

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by SWB

I wouldn't consider Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Orlando, Washington, DC, etc. to be "nowhere." I may not have resided in any of these places, but when it comes to this issue all one must do is spend several days observing the general reactions folks have towards one another when they are faced with people of varying cultural backgrounds and draw your own conclusions. I don't see morons staring blankly at gay couples, women in Burkas, etc. as so many do around here. Yes, we're different. GET OVER IT!

I hope an influx of diverse New Yorkers overtakes this region overnight so that the bigots here can have a TOTAL culture shock that will snap them into the reality of no matter what color our skin us, whom we date, or what religious organization we belong to, we're really not substantially different as members of the human race. The sooner people in NEPA realize this, the better our chances of being viewed as a "progressive" area that can in turn lure in new residents and investors.

Let me understand this. You have the power to understand how the entire culture of a major metropolitian area is thinking about cultural diversity because you "observed their general reactions towards one another walking on the street FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS"? Seriously WOW? How was your hotel?


The second quote is pretty clueless and is seriously lacking understanding of how the world really is. Do you think that there is no racism or racist people in Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Orlando, Washington, DC,?

Again having walked around for a couple of days this should be easy.

Do you think that only accepting and nonracist people are moving here?

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Let me understand this. You have the power to understand how the entire culture of a major metropolitian area is thinking about cultural diversity because you "observed their general reactions towards one another walking on the street FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS"? Seriously WOW? How was your hotel?


The second quote is pretty clueless and is seriously lacking understanding of how the world really is. Do you think that there is no racism or racist people in Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Orlando, Washington, DC,?

Again having walked around for a couple of days this should be easy.

Do you think that only accepting and nonracist people are moving here?

Before you reply any further, let's just drop this issue here before this thread gets closed for being "off-topic." I'm sure otr and coartist88 have enough work on their hands the way it is. Let's just agree to disagree, shall we? If you still want to debate this issue further, then feel free to call me out on the off-topic thread.

[Georgia to Northeast PA]

Ok since it seems that both Weluvpa and SWB are being honest. I have to be honest, I really don't want to live in a place that can not see beyond the color of someone skin or cares about their social life and makes the remark that people from NYC and NJ live in section 8. I believe we all come from the same source and if you disrespect one "type" of person you distrepect yourself. So honestly just tell me the percentage of people who hold the views that unless you are of one race and you should not live or never have lived in NY or NJ or whatever the rules are. I am not going to switch one intolerant place for another and go in debt to do it. I am sorry I thought there were a lot of churches in this area that asked themselves WWJD but I must have been mistaken.