Smoking Ban bill as been passed (Scranton, York: lawyers, buying, universities)

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by FightinPhils

So they can charge a nominal fee to "join," call it a club, and allow smoking.

It's not clear to me if a club that serves food will fall under those guidelines however if that is the case I suspect you're going to see many private clubs surfacing within the next few months which will make the law all but pointless .

Along the same lines some places where there have been outright bans have been using similar loopholes, one of the places for example that smoking is not banned is in theater where the actor is portraying smoking and the patrons are all now actors in the grandest comedy of all time.

MPR: Another bar ticketed for smoking ban violation

[ecam222]

Ahhh fresh air again...of course, it will take quite some time to really get that stink out of all the woodwork, upholstry and everything else in those places. Smokers lose their sense of smell. If they only knew.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Angelatc

God forbid private property be run as the owner sees fit. Can't have that, I suppose. People might actually do something you don't approve of.

Yes, such as serve underage people, obviously intoxicated people (illegal in Colorado, I don't know about Pennsylvania), pay less than the legal wage, etc. There are many restrictions on businesses already. This is not that onerous.

You really think it's a good idea for the government to give us our rights?

Because as far as I am concerned, you shouldn't get a lick of say in how people behave on my property. If you don't like people smoking in my house, or my resturant, or my car, stay the heck out.

(But that's not good enough. I already know how socialism works.)

In your own personal home, used only as your residence, almost anything goes. It is still illegal to beat your spouse/kids, use illegal drugs, and all sorts of things. If we didn't have any laws, we'd have anarchy.

[thecoalman]

Katiana, trying to compare spousal/child abuse to allowing a restaurant or bar owner free choice to decide if patrons can smoke in his/her establishment that they have invested money and time in is hardly fair. First and foremost there is no one being forced into such a situation. Both you and the people working in the establishment do not have to be in there. You can choose to go elsewhere or work elsewhere, what this law does is remove the freedom of restaurant owner and smokers to make a choice to go to a smoking establishment.

Our freedoms are slowly being eroded, this is certainly not the first example. We do not need laws to rule every aspect of our lives however it seems laws like this are being created more and more frequently. It's only a matter of time before one comes up that is going to effect you and all of sudden you may realize that this ban wasn't such a great idea after all. Next on the agenda is the food we eat, mark my words.

[Katiana]

I was not comparing spouse/child abuse to smoking in a bar. I was just saying, you are not free to do everything you please even in your own home. No matter what example I had given, you would have found something to pick apart, this happens on every smoking thread on City-Data.

What else can't you do in your own home or on your own property? Usually you can't fire a gun, if you live in a metropolitan area. If you build a shed, it has to be set back from the property line a certain distance; in this city it is six feet, and that is a city zoning law, not an HOA rule. You can't leave a car sitting in your yard. You have to cut your grass. In this state, you cannot serve alcohol to a minor in your home unless his/her parents are also present. ETC. I do not buy the "slippery slope" argument.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by Katiana

In this state, you cannot serve alcohol to a minor in your home unless his/her parents are also present.

As far as I know you cannot do that under any circumstances in Pennsylvania even if its your own child, this exemplifies my point on how freedoms are being taken away from us. Something like that should be left up to the parents if for example they want to give their child a small glass of wine with dinner for the documented health benefits or even a sip during the holidays. Frankly I think trying to prevent children from drinking only exacerbates the problems of alcoholism in later life. I'm not suggesting allowing children to drink to the point of inebriation either. That's my opinion but I have no freedom to exercise it because the state has taken my freedom away to make that choice as a parent.

[Katiana]

I should have been more clear. I was referring to a minor who is not your child. In Colorado, a parent can give a minor a drink in their own home, as long as the parent is present.

[FightinPhils]

I drink beer occasionally, but I do not think that minors should drink alcohol. Its not the greatest thing in the world for kids whose bodies are still developing. I think the drinking age of 21 is appropriate. For their health, and because teens are not mature enough to handle alcohol (although some adults are not mature enough to handle it either, the proof is in the constant listings of DUI arrests in the local papers).

[Georgia to Northeast PA]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Katiana, trying to compare spousal/child abuse to allowing a restaurant or bar owner free choice to decide if patrons can smoke in his/her establishment that they have invested money and time in is hardly fair. First and foremost there is no one being forced into such a situation. Both you and the people working in the establishment do not have to be in there. You can choose to go elsewhere or work elsewhere, what this law does is remove the freedom of restaurant owner and smokers to make a choice to go to a smoking establishment.

Our freedoms are slowly being eroded, this is certainly not the first example. We do not need laws to rule every aspect of our lives however it seems laws like this are being created more and more frequently. It's only a matter of time before one comes up that is going to effect you and all of sudden you may realize that this ban wasn't such a great idea after all. Next on the agenda is the food we eat, mark my words.

Interesting point of view but I believe other states have had smoking bans in place in for many years before PA and I don't see any business suffering in those States except due to the economy. I always wondered how you could possibly pass a law that someone did not feel his/her personal freedoms were being infringed on. I am not sure it is possible. How do we balance the greater good vs. individual freedoms? I think it is because we have this sense in America that we are individuals there is always a battle between individual freedoms and greater good. I guess it is because we don't feel that we are really connected. I am afraid that I have to be on the side of greater good. I guess that is the ultimate individual freedom is siding with what is best for the majority of people and putting our own inconveniences aside.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by Georgia to Northeast PA

Interesting point of view but I believe other states have had smoking bans in place in for many years before PA and I don't see any business suffering in those States except due to the economy.

I think it depends on which business,location, other factors... from the information I read it seemed the general consensus was family type restaurants saw a small to moderate increase in patronage. Smaller diner type restaurants that also served as social gathering places for regulars and bars that served strictly alcohol suffered. The climate is going to be a factor, obviously bars in places with warmer climates could have outdoor areas for much of the year. On the other hand there is study linked to in previous post that indicated Bars in New York State lost a lot of business.