Hypothetical Ways to Improve Our Local Cities (Scranton, Wilkes-Barre: cul-de-sac, middle-class)

[ScranBarre]

DISCLAIMER: In order to prevent thread closure I respectfully ask that any conversation about politics be omitted from this discussion. This means that anything along the lines of "Blow up the mayor and hypnotize the sheep" will be flagged by ME and requested to be relocated to the Off-Topic sticky thread, at the discretion of our faithful moderator. I know I'm guilty of this too, but I want to finally have an intelligent discussion about what to do in order to save our cities.

With the "fine print" out of the way, I hope this thread can turn into a brainstorming session for the few dozen of us to collectively devise ways to revitalize and restore our area's core cities of Carbondale, Scranton, Pittston, Wilkes-Barre, Nanticoke, and Hazleton, along with the smaller cores of Edwardsville, Plymouth, Old Forge, and Olyphant. Some have already seen promising progress being made. For example, hundreds of new lofts are now under development in nearly a half-dozen different mixed-use projects in Downtown Wilkes-Barre, Pittston is getting a major (and long overdue) street scape overhaul, and Scranton is starting to see some progress on several long-stalled and controversial mixed-use projects. However, when I take a drive or stroll through Edwardsville at night I instinctively hover my hand above my cell phone holster to make it appear as if I'm "packing heat" to deter would-be muggers. Nanticoke, despite being home to very influential U.S. Congressman Paul Kanjorski, continues to wither and is a shell of its former self. Plymouth, once the furniture capital of NEPA, is now one of its drug capitals. Pittston, despite promising new progress being made downtown, is still a city that is only 1/3 of its heyday size with a very high level of poverty and a very low level of educational attainment. Stroudsburg, while having a quaint downtown, has been experiencing a dramatic uptick in crime in recent years. Hazleton is a city rife with racial tensions that have stymied redevelopment initiatives.

What are the culprits behind the impending failures of these cities. In my opinion, they include the following, which I'll detail more vividly below:

• Urban Sprawl
• Negativity
• Job Scarcity
• Provincialism

I feel as if our area is too fragmented as far as municipalities go. Luzerne County has 76 municipalities, most of which have under 5,000 residents, and most of which have their own governing bodies, police departments, fire departments, DPWs, etc. that do nothing but drain their budgets away from making any sort of beneficial capital improvements. For example, the tiny borough of Jeddo, with a population not far over 100, is adjacent to Hazle Township, which has wanted to annex it for quite some time. The townspeople of Jeddo have irrational fears of "losing their individuality" and "facing tax increases" if they are annexed into the township. The same can be said for countless other small boroughs in Luzerne County, such as New Columbus, Shickshinny, Warrior Run, Sugar Notch, and Yatesville, all of which have well under 1,000 residents. Merging municipalities and their respective public services could help to streamline operations and reduce excess government expenditures.

The flight of the middle- and upper-middle-class from our core communities out to the suburbs needs to stop. There was once a time when the area's fashionable elite resided in Downtown Wilkes-Barre, Scranton's Hill Section and Green Ridge neighborhoods, and the Terrace section of Hazleton. Now most have fled to sprawling suburban subdivisions like Glenmaura, Willow View, Quail Hill, Beech Mountain Lakes, Eagle Rock, Sutton Farms, Goodleigh Manor, Laurel Brook Estates, Harmony Hills, Saddle Ridge, Woodridge, Oakford Woods, Abbey Ridge, Wildcat Ridge, School Side Estates, Windsor Hill, etc. This causes the fewer residents remaining in our cities and boroughs to pay more and more each year to maintain adequate public services with progressively smaller tax bases. As more and more people move out to the suburbs, more and more businesses and employers follow suit in order to position themselves more conveniently to their customer bases and/or employees. Montage Mountain in Moosic is a prime example of this. If that mountain were never developed and instead The Shoppes at Montage, Prudential, MetLife, PNC Bank, DLP, etc. were all opened in Downtown Scranton, the city would be a thriving boom town. Instead more and more businesses flee the Mall at Steamtown en route to the Shoppes at Montage and more and more white-collar families leave Scranton for the posh cul-de-sacs of the Glenamura community.

The negativity here is also astounding. When Forbes recently rated Scranton as being amongst the nation's most rapidly declining cities, there were many more local responses affirming that study as opposed to decrying it. Why? There are far too many reasons to enjoy living here to spend all of your time wallowing around and being self-deprecating. I'd rather deal with our "problems" of potholes, political cronyism/nepotism, and low wages as opposed to the "problems" of other cities, such as violent random crime, widespread urban blight, gangs, terrorism, impending natural disasters (i.e. massive Seattle earthquake), etc. Am I honestly the only twenty-something who still wishes to raise his family in our area? Certainly I am not, yet where are my positive reinforcements? All I hear about is how much "better" it is to live in NJ or NY. If that's the case, then why are the biggest exports from NJ and NY their people.

What can be done to salvage our area's cities? We must remain upbeat and resilient against the throngs of Debbie Downers amongst us. We must embrace and encourage diversity and learn to tolerate different cultures. As evidenced by a new report, Luzerne and Lackawanna Counties are the two counties out of the 67 in PA with the most rapidly-exploding populations of Hispanics. We also have a very large (yet silent) LGBT community. This is no longer the year 1950, and we aren't all the Cleavers. We live amongst Atheists, Buddhists, Jews, Wiccans, and Christians alike. We are gay, bisexual, straight, transgendered, and transsexual. We are English-speaking, Spanish-speaking, and even Heynabonics-speaking. We are Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, or Apathetic. We need to start respecting differences in one another so horror stories like what emanated from the bowels of Schuylkill County several weeks ago never again grace national media headlines. We must band together to support the Sierra Club as it attempts to preserve our open space, and we must support KOZ initiatives aimed at redeveloping brown field sites in our urban areas. In the short-term they may be a drain upon us, but in the long-term they will bear much economic fruit. Just imagine how much rosier Scranton's bottom line will be in a few years when the hundreds of currently tax-free dwellings that were built in the Tripps Park and Keyser Terrace subdivisions in or near West Side start to appear on the tax rolls. You can argue that everyone will relocate as soon as the tax-free status evaporates, but someone will still own the property and will still pay taxes on these homes to help bolster the tax base, even if the original families who built them all decide to abandon ship in a sign of selfishness that I personally do NOT believe will occur.

I'm tired of typing, but I have many more thoughts in my mind. I can't wait to read ideas and opinions from others.

[Retired Law 08]

O.k,fasten your seat belts folks,here we go again....just follow TOS and
remember watch what you post...http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by coartist88

O.k,fasten your seat belts folks,here we go again....just follow TOS and
remember watch what you posts...http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html

Thanks for the reminder. I'm sorry about my part in the implosion of that other thread too. Several of us got out of hand. I just do not want to see that happen to THIS thread too. We all know from that other thread that Forbes, CNN, and correspondingly a large chunk of the media-savvy nation thinks we are doomed in the future. This thread should be about ways to counter those negative stereotypes and to press onwards with a new outlook for the region. Notice how I said region, which is why a reversion into Scranton political psycho-babble should not be tolerated here. We'll chat about that on the "sticky" thread.

[weluvpa]

Its impossible to not involve politics in this discussion because NOTHING happens without it in this region, NOTHING. You want to change the cities and try to get them jump started well you need to change the way that they have been run for the last 50 years +.

You have to start with a fresh gov't with new ideas that are based on what can and cannot be financially viable to the residents that have continued to be the core of the cities. You cannot blindly build these ongoing projects in hopes that people will come to our cities. We need to take care of our own , of the core that has held on from day one. These people are the backbones of our cities and when the gov't acts in ways that is detrimental to the taxpayers then they are doing nothing to try and improve the city.

Imagine what it would be like for Scranton if we really had a gov't that cared about the people, a city gov't that could be rallied around with the support of the residents, a city where people actually thought that they COULD make a difference. Imagine what changes could take place.

Imagine that!!!! To many in this area that thought is a nightmare.........cronism and nepotism being cut back would put hundreds out of work.

You have can ideas and ideas and ideas about what you think would be good and what you think could improve our city but until the status quo is changed they are just that, ideas.

Its 2008 and gas is still close to $4.00 a gallon and people are scared about how they are going to heat their homes this winter. It comes down to how much can these people take? People have no reasons to really stay in the crumbling cities when they can move to the burbs, people are too busy working multiple jobs just to get by, to care about tree lined streets and front porches, its a real world out there and its getting harder and harder for people to make ends meet. If the local gov't could careless then why stay?

[ScranBarre]

Dan, the way I see it though is that we shouldn't be so heavily reliant upon local government to repair all of our problems for us. Analogically speaking, it seems many in NEPA feel that they are tenants with the "landlords" being their elected officials. When the water heater breaks, a tenant expects the landlord to repair it. Similarly it seems as if most around here expect our politicians to always come to the rescue whenever something goes awry. For some circumstances it should be expected that our tax dollars serve as "rent," and in return we should have smoother roads and safer streets but not a "Studebaker in every driveway." I paid my $52 per year in EMS taxes to Wilkes-Barre Township and saw no return on my investment. I just accepted the status quo. The same goes for Edwardsville, where my co-workers and I still pay $52 annually to work in a town with the highest murder rate in the area on a per capita basis.

You're only a little over a decade older than me, Dan, but perhaps you can remember a time when there were still good politicians out there. I've only been mentally aware of my political surroundings since the mid-1990s, so I grew up in an era in which I was never exposed to anything other than a loafer for an elected official, so I've become fiercely independent of them. I can't think of one current elected official who has exceeded my expectations since voting for them, and many (especially our current Commander-in-Chief), have let me down immensely, even though I didn't vote for them.

Instead of approaching a city council podium week after week to no avail, why not realize that the only way to bring about positive change is to do it yourself? I've heard Councilwoman Evans read the same droning "citizens' request" week after week about weeds being too high at an intersection or there being not enough toilet paper at the Nay Aug Park restrooms. If you're getting no results going right through City Hall, then grab a few neighbors with a few weed whackers and get to work beautifying that vacant lot that has drawn so much ire. Disgusted in the past by the amount of litter along Oak Street, a major commuter belt in my community, I volunteered with Adopt-A-Highway to clean it up myself instead of just whining about it incessantly. Dan, in the past you complained about the deep ruts in the Davis Trail at Nay Aug Park. I haven't been there in months, but if they're still there, then why don't you have your neighborhood association spend a few hours on some Saturday with some wheelbarrows and some top soil to fill in the holes in the name of public safety? Sitting back and saying "it's the city's job, not mine" may seem satisfying, but what good does it do if it never gets done otherwise?

On a national level I'm increasingly worried that far too many Americans have forgotten the old adage of "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" as many are voting for Sen. Obama simply because they want free handouts. The mentality of this area's populace towards its government should NOT be one of "gimme, gimme more," as Britney Spears says in one of her songs. It should be "what can I do to be a better public servant?" If all 70,000ish residents of the Electric City spent one Saturday each month volunteering to improve their neighborhoods, then there would be no reason to storm City Hall week after week complaining. Think about it.

[Summering]

Oh me, Oh my........It took me a good half hour to write in the other thread.
I so completely meant what I said. I love Scranton and its surrounds.
I don't see anything different with the postings ( lookin' around, lookin' around)
I am missing something in the translation, I just know it.
.

[weluvpa]

Think about what Paul? My neighbors and I maintain or at least before the construction started maintained the empty lots in our neighborhood but its hard to do that when they show up and tell you that you are not supposed to be working on city land. They won't do it and they don't want you doing it to make them look bad. What do you think would happen if I showed up at Nay Aug with 3 tons of modified and started to fix the Davis Trail? There is a group in place that is there for Nay Aug, where are they? WHY DO WE PAY TAXES IF WE CANNOT RELY ON THE LOCAL GOV'T TO USE THE MONEY TO IMPROVE OUR CITY?

I don't know about you Paul I prefer to see a return on my investments, I have invested alot of time and money into this city and I want the return on my investment. Based on your thinking maybe we should stop paying taxes since we are going to end up doing ourselves? Is it wrong to hold these people to some kind of a standard?

The people alone CANNOT make the changes needed here, they first need to vote the status quo out in order to get a grip on the finances of the cities. There is no reason that a city of 70,000 should be expected to carry the debt load that Scranton is. The debt is the anchor that is pulling this city down, the desease that is killing Scranton and until we can change the current form of revival of throwing money at everything and hoping that something will work nothing is going to change.

You really want to change the region then get out there and work the polls and encourage people to vote, help people get registered, educate the masses on what they need to do to get change. Thats why I goto the podium, to let people know what is not being done for the residents and tell them where their money is being wasted, What have you really done? You spoke at one meeting, besides CD what have you done to help the people learn what is really going on their city?

Before you point that critical finger at those of us in the trenches taking hit after hit maybe you should jump in and take one or two for the team. Maybe you should get involved.

[TheEmissary]

Paul, once again you've come up with a very compelling thread. The questions you pose are much bigger than NEPA. It seems to me that many of the larger cities as well as smaller ones that you've mentioned are facing many of the same problems.

If you think in terms of the City-Data forums, the most frequently asked question about a given municipality is "how good are the schools"? If the schools receive a "less than sterling review by posters", that municipality is likely to be passed over by potential newcomers. Many cities both small and large tend to have high concentrations of poor, both native and immigrants, who tend to produce lower test scores. It would take a hardy urban pioneer who would want to subject their children to "unmitigated boredom" of having classmates who might be five grade levels behind them in reading and math ability. School rankings might even outweigh the effect of "crooked politicians" in the desirability of a given town or city. If the schools are good, they will come! What town or city doesn't complain about its politicians? I think the term "honest politician" is an oxymoron to most people.

You're spot on with your analysis of the extra costs caused by the duplication of services by all of the small towns in a county. New Jersey is ground zero as an example of this. Does every little dinky town need a school superintendant that gets $150,000 to $200,000? I think not! Here in NC, schools are county entities which saves a bundle. The same might be said for police departments too! But nobody wants to give up that precious "home rule" which ends up boosting taxes and creating patronage jobs for the local politicians to dispense. Everyone decries this practice, but there doesn't seem to be enough "organized outrage" to change it, other than a letter to the editor or a rant on a forum! (You all know who you are! ) This idea is particularly entrenched in the Northeast. It must have been the product of New England with their six-by-six mile towns laid out in grid style. I can still see that page in my mind from my sixth-grade history book!

The suburban dream is still alive and well in this country. If you took a poll of the illegal immigrants, I think their idea of "paradise" would probably include that 4 bedroom 2.5 bath house on a quarter of an acre in a "nice suburb". That stereotype dream dies hard for most people. Unless tax, energy and housing policies dictate otherwise, it will remain the "Holy Grail" for middle-class aspirations. It was mine for a great deal of time. That's why I bought a lot in Penn Estates. But as time went by, Penn Estates devolved into something else! Ask Summering about that one!

So here I am, in a little NC town that sits 15 miles away from Charlotte, that siren city of the south, that beckons all the cold, overtaxed and house-hungry from the Northeast and Midwest. Charlotte is like a giant collection of suburbs with some skyscrapers. It is for the most part, a nice place to live. But there are a few cracks in the golden facade. Section 8 housing is starting to tarnish its image and crime is moving to the richer areas. Can you imagine Edwardsville burglars breaking into 10 or 15 homes in the Abingtons every night? Even the trendy cities have their problems.

But Charlotte has got a very positive attitude, which helps it a lot. If I could bottle that in an elixir, Paul, I'd send you a few gallons to slip into Scranton's water supply. I'm sure your counterpart in Detroit would like a 55 gallon drum of it too! I'll work on it, my degree is in Chemistry altho' I never used it in the Post Office!

[W-B proud]

A... I though this wasn't suppost to inti yet another political thread about Scranton???

[weluvpa]

It doesn't have anything to do with Scranton. The idea that the status quo in politics needs to be chnaged before we would ever see any real changes happen should be applied to the region. Until we have people in office that are willing to make changes that might benefit the taxpayers and not a select few there won't be any changes anytime soon.

This goes from the local school boards right up to the mayors office of WB, Scranton and every other town in the valley. The first changes need to come from within.