Boycott the Roman Catholic Church (Scranton: gated, law, legal)

[littlebunnie69]

I was raised a catholic ( being hispanic YOU really didn't have a choice ) what i have noticed since i moved into this area is that being catholic is not a popular choice. The local church has lost over 40 percent of it is patrons due to some the negative and overly critical views the people in that church have. I have 4 personal friends that have left that church due to comments that made them feel like outsiders, One comment was that a child concieved thru invitro was not to be looked as an egual to a child concieved normaly. YOu all have probably heard that a lot of the catholic local schools are having problems filling their seats. Doesn't anybody wonder why?

Because we are tired of having issues like abortion brought up every single mass. I am pro- choice that doesn't change the fact that i am still a good catholic. I go to church every sunday, i help the church finacially and my daughters are being brought up as catholic citzens.

In NOvember my vote for president is not going to be determined by what my priest tells me in mass to do, but by my gut feeling. That is one of the rights that i gained when i became a us citizen.

[thecoalman]

Personally I don't see the issue with a Church being political as long as the parishioners are on board. The only thing that is of a real concern IMO is the tax exempt status. Clearly no group should hold that if they are going to be political so the question is where to draw the line? As I understand the law now I believe its pretty fair. A church is not in danger as long as it sticks to supporting issues which I believe they have every right to.

The local church has lost over 40 percent of it is patrons due to some the negative and overly critical views the people in that church have

I think it's more than that. This area has many churches so the effects of a dwindling congregations is that much more pronounced. If you have 3 churches in one town all of the same faith... Other mainstream churches are having more success with the young people than Catholics but overall they are all on the decline. What's odd is many "fringe" churches for lack of a better term without a large central base seem to be doing quite well but then again they don't have a church in every town.

[okaydorothy]

Growing up in Ireland where politics and the catholic church were always mixed, I think that religion should defiantely be kept out of the church. It is everyones personal opinion who they want to vote for and nobody will tell me who I should vote for.

At home now, the church going population is way down because of the scandals involving priests. I do send my children to catholic school only because I think they need somesort of religion as they are growning up and my dh and I have such a slanted view of the Catholic church ; but then its the only church we are familiar with that its what we understand.. The kids can choose what they want when they are adults.

Keep politics out of it. Then again, last weekend there was a few services out west that were preaching politics from the pulpit.

d

[Jungle George]

Originally Posted by okaydorothy

Growing up in Ireland where politics and the catholic church were always mixed, I think that religion should defiantely be kept out of the church. It is everyones personal opinion who they want to vote for and nobody will tell me who I should vote for.

At home now, the church going population is way down because of the scandals involving priests. I do send my children to catholic school only because I think they need somesort of religion as they are growning up and my dh and I have such a slanted view of the Catholic church ; but then its the only church we are familiar with that its what we understand.. The kids can choose what they want when they are adults.

Keep politics out of it. Then again, last weekend there was a few services out west that were preaching politics from the pulpit.

d

If we look back through history, religion & politics were ALWAYS co-joined together from the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Romans, Greeks, Medieval Europe etc. on up to present day!!

I don't think we'll EVER be able to keep the two separate 100%, but tax-free status is a type of legal contract & should be treated like any other legal contract if terms are breached.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by littlebunnie69

I was raised a catholic ( being hispanic YOU really didn't have a choice ) what i have noticed since i moved into this area is that being catholic is not a popular choice. The local church has lost over 40 percent of it is patrons due to some the negative and overly critical views the people in that church have. I have 4 personal friends that have left that church due to comments that made them feel like outsiders, One comment was that a child concieved thru invitro was not to be looked as an egual to a child concieved normaly. YOu all have probably heard that a lot of the catholic local schools are having problems filling their seats. Doesn't anybody wonder why?

Most of my friends happen to be Roman Catholic. King's College, where I attend classes, was instituted to conform to the practices of the Congregation of the Holy Cross. I don't harbor any grudges or resentments towards practicing Roman Catholics for any reason. My disdain lies with Bishop Martino. Since he's taken the reins over from Bishop Timlin I've seen nothing but deterioration in the Diocese of Scranton, ranging from shuttering churches and schools at the drop of a hat (Pittston alone now has three abandoned churches and three abandoned schools because of his decisions, which has led our community to look even more inhospitable) to his more recent infusion of "politicizing from the pulpit." I encourage everyone to read the Times-Leader this morning if they are able to do so. They've been doing an excellent job lately covering the upcoming election on the state, local, and national levels and all of the candidates' stances on these touchy issues. They also did a fine article this morning highlighting how Bishop Martino crossed the fine-line between the separation of church and state. I hope to see the Diocese of Scranton having its tax-exempt status revoked as expediently as possible. If they're going to coerce people to vote for Sen. McCain in order to "remain good Catholics," then they are NOT complying by the condition of being tax-exempt that one must remain neutral in politics.

Originally Posted by littlebunnie69

Because we are tired of having issues like abortion brought up every single mass. I am pro- choice that doesn't change the fact that i am still a good catholic. I go to church every sunday, i help the church finacially and my daughters are being brought up as catholic citzens.

I'm gay. I'm opposed to same-sex marriage, but I'm strongly supportive of government recognition of same-sex civil unions. I'd have to guess that most Democrats share that sentiment. My church knows its boundaries. It condemns homosexuality, but in no way does it urge fellow Protestants to vote for the candidate that opposes same-sex civil rights. Even if they did, it still wouldn't violate their tax-exempt condition because BOTH candidates are opposed to same-sex marriage, with Sen. Obama supporting same-sex civil unions. Therefore, if my pastor were to give a mass saying "remember our stance on homosexuality on Election Day," we could still feel free to vote for EITHER candidate. With this abortion debacle, on the other hand, Bishop Martino is BLATANTLY pushing for Sen. McCain, since Sen. Obama's record is one of the most liberal regarding pro-choice.

Originally Posted by littlebunnie69

In NOvember my vote for president is not going to be determined by what my priest tells me in mass to do, but by my gut feeling. That is one of the rights that i gained when i became a us citizen.

I'm very, very proud of you and am glad to call you a fellow American. Unfortunately, how many thousands of "robots" or "sheep being led to slaughter" will take Bishop Martino's message as "I have to vote for Sen. McCain if I want to remain a good Catholic?" As a 21-year-old preparing to enter the professional workforce, my top concern right now is the economy. I have slightly more faith in Sen. Obama's anticipated policies to resurrect our declining dollar than I do for Sen. McCain, whose economic policy doesn't differ greatly from President Bush.

Go Phillies is pro-life. So am I. I'm not voting for abortion as the TOP crisis facing our nation right now when for all we know the investments of millions could evaporate by 2009. We could be involved in a war with Pakistan, North Korea, Iran, or wherever else by 2009. Bishop Martino's comments are very, very irresponsible, to say the least, in that he disavows all other reasons to vote for a candidate besides the mandate that they be "pro-life." He could jeopardize our nation's future by encouraging his mostly elderly flock---a flock which is also very impressionable and very fastidious in their voting habits---to vote in droves for Sen. McCain.

I'm still researching the legal basis for challenging the tax-exempt status of the Roman Catholic church. I don't care if I would be "vilified" for that or not, as I feel as if this is the proper thing to do.

[ScranBarre]

Here are some quotes from that aforementioned Times-Leader article:

• And in a potential swing state that has some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the nation, tens to hundreds of thousands of Catholics filling church pews today in Luzerne County are hearing a message from their bishop to withhold their vote from pro-choice candidates (Gee...I wonder who that could be referring to?!)
• Priests will read to their congregations a letter from Bishop Joseph Martino in which he acknowledges the election and launches a verbal attack on “pro-choice candidates” whom he says “have come to support homicide – the gravest injustice a society can tolerate.”

[_redbird_]

Aww, Scrann-Barre, why'd you have to go and open a can of worms for??!!! Can't you make this thread title: Boycott the religious right!!

Now THAT would be cool. Actually, I am catholic and I love the catholic church. I have only heard it said sometimes we have to vote for the lessor of two evils. And we have been reminded of the Church's stance on abortion. As if we could ever forget that.

But I would never support that idiot WOLF KILLING FROM AN AIRPLANE Palin, or that molar grinding hot head McCain. Sorry, Father, those two idiots need to crawl back under their respective rocks.

In case you are not catholic, I will fill you in on a little known secret. ... PAUSE FOR GREATER EFFECT....

Priests do not always follow the Vatican's edicts. Some priests are prone to following their own conscience, and usually the archdiocese will have to reign in a loose cannon.

There, the catholic church's greatest secret exposed just for you Scran!

[ScranBarre]

Bishop Martino has to be the most short-sighted, dimwitted bishop the Diocese of Scranton has ever seen. He's obviously coercing his congregates to vote for Sen. McCain here, in direct violation of the conditions of the church's tax-exempt status.

Here are some quotes from the web site of the IRS:

To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

Aww, Scrann-Barre, why'd you have to go and open a can of worms for??!!! Can't you make this thread title: Boycott the religious right!!

Now THAT would be cool. Actually, I am catholic and I love the catholic church. I have only heard it said sometimes we have to vote for the lessor of two evils. And we have been reminded of the Church's stance on abortion. As if we could ever forget that.

But I would never support that idiot WOLF KILLING FROM AN AIRPLANE Palin, or that molar grinding hot head McCain. Sorry, Father, those two idiots need to crawl back under their respective rocks.

In case you are not catholic, I will fill you in on a little known secret. ... PAUSE FOR GREATER EFFECT....

Priests do not always follow the Vatican's edicts. Some priests are prone to following their own conscience, and usually the archdiocese will have to reign in a loose cannon.

There, the catholic church's greatest secret exposed just for you Scran!

In this sense I was a bit "quick to pull the trigger" last night. I now realize that the ENTIRE Roman Catholic church is not in violation of its tax-exempt status, just the Diocese of Scranton, so I apologize. The Vatican will hopefully discipline Bishop Martino for his irresponsibility here in being forced to remain impartial during elections, as per the IRS. This won't stop my little "Crusade" though. One voter sitting in the pews who threw out his/her Obama bumper sticker in order to vote for Sen. McCain after learning of this proclamation from Bishop Martino is one voter too many in my eyes. I'm still going to investigate to see if Bishop Martino's decree is in direct violation of the IRS code and encourage revocation of the Diocese's tax-exempt status if deemed appropriate disciplinary action.

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

Bishop Martino has to be the most short-sighted, dimwitted bishop the Diocese of Scranton has ever seen. He's obviously coercing his congregates to vote for Sen. McCain here, in direct violation of the conditions of the church's tax-exempt status.

Okay, Scran, you have forced me to unleash yet another top secret from the catholic church. But only for you will I do this:

TOP SECRET #2: The people who attend the catholic church do not always do what the priest tells them to do!

OMG, I hang my head in shame over that one.