Boycott the Roman Catholic Church (Scranton, Nixon: houses, vs, shop)

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by go phillies

The Church has the right to advocate for issues it believes in. Just because you don't agree with those issues does not mean they cannot remind the parishioners of what the Catholic Church stands for. Anyone who doesn't like what the Church teaches isn't forced be Catholic.

No, it doesn't. It has the right to advocate and promote the Doctrine up until the point where it attempts to undermine the United States election process, at which point the fine line between "advocating" and "politicizing" has been crossed. I'm pro-life, as I said earlier. For as "tolerant" as I like to think I am I just can't get images out of my mind of "baby-killing" when I think of abortion. I think of how much potential that young life may have had to do great things if given a chance to be adopted into a loving household. If the Roman Catholic church wants to remind parishioners of the sanctity of humanity, then more power to them. I agree with that. However, when they attempt to coerce them to vote along those lines then they are acting in violation of those IRS guidelines I posted earlier that grants them their tax-exempt status.

Originally Posted by go phillies

Anyway, where's all the "tolerance" you liberals like spout off about? Liberals omly like tolerance of their own beliefs....they have very little tolerance for beleifs other than their own...especially socially conservative beliefs....they hate the traditional family and anything respecting the unborn. You want Adam and Steve to be able to get married, but God forbid the Catholic Church preaches on one of its central beliefs.

"Tolerance" for breaking the law? Bishop Martino has made more enemies than allies in this region. I speak to numerous ex-Catholics who no longer attend mass because of his actions that have led to a spiritual wasteland here in Greater Pittston. Instead of strengthening and bolstering his flock, he has driven it away. This man showed his arrogance in its finest with his dimwitted letter being read throughout the Diocese at masses yesterday and Saturday evening. It's one thing to say "the unborn need our protection." It's another thing to add "bear that in mind when you go to vote."

There's a BIG difference between killing a fetus and permitting two women or two men to engage in a civil contract. The latter harms nobody except for the hardcore Republicans who think such acts will cause it to rain frogs (I haven't seen any locusts swarming Boston lately, have you? ) The former can cause psychological damage to a woman later on in her life as she wonders "What if...", and it most certainly does also deny that unborn child its right to live.

What's so difficult for you people to understand about a division between church and state?

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by go phillies

There was no violation of the tax code. No candidates name was mentioned...the CHURCH IS ALLOWED TO ADVOCATE FOR ITS BELIEFS!! I'll bet if there was was a church or a priest or minister pushing for gay rights you'd be all for it. You're just upset because the Church disagrees with you. Just because a priest or bishop's homily may stray to one end of the political spectrum or another does not mean he is actively campaigning for a candidate. If he had mentioned either candidate by name, you would be right. But he didn't so you are wrong.

Anyways, do you think there are not liberal clergy out there advocating their beliefs? Go to a UCC or and Episcopal church and I'm sure you will find clergy out there stumping from the pulpit for their left-leaning beliefs...

So by saying that the pro-choice candidate is abhorrent and that Roman Catholics have a moral obligation to vote for the pro-life candidate, you're implying that Roman Catholics are not being instructed to vote for Senator John McCain, the ONLY pro-life candidate in this election, over Senator Barack Obama, the pro-choice candidate? I've said this earlier, and I'll say it again. If there were more than just one pro-life candidate this would be a non-issue to me, as there clearly would not be only ONE candidate to whom the church is directing its flock towards. Elderly Roman Catholics are a huge voting bloc in this nation, and if they vote in large numbers for Sen. McCain I'll hold Bishop Martino personally responsible. You remember 2004, right? You remember that Evangelicals and other religious fundamentalists brought us four more years of this disastrous train wreck we call the Bush Administration ($700,000,000,000 more of our tax dollars gone and yet another stock nosedive projected today). Do you want to see history continuously repeat itself because Bishop Martino urged everyone to vote for McSame due to his pro-life stance?

You don't see my Lutheran pastor giving sermons and reading letters handed down from OUR bishop telling us to vote in accordance with the church on Election Day, do you?

[Jungle George]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

The latter harms nobody except for the hardcore Republicans who think such acts will cause it to rain frogs (I haven't seen any locusts swarming Boston lately, have you? )

I DID hear that the Charles River turned to blood a few times this past summer!!! (though that could've just been a rumor & caused by algae-bloom...)

[go phillies]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

So by saying that the pro-choice candidate is abhorrent and that Roman Catholics have a moral obligation to vote for the pro-life candidate, you're implying that Roman Catholics are not being instructed to vote for Senator John McCain, the ONLY pro-life candidate in this election, over Senator Barack Obama, the pro-choice candidate?

You're assuming that everyone is required to vote either democrat or republican. You're not. You can vote democrat, republican, green, libertarian, for Mickey Mouse, Al Bundy, Santa Claus, or nobody. Personally, I'm leaning towards a protest vote of Homer Simpson/Santa Claus/the Phillie Phanatic/etc.

If you really look at this argument, EVERY sermon from a church pulpit can be taken to mean that they are telling someone to vote one way or another. As long as they are not actively campaigning and mentioning names, there are no laws broken here.

And as for your comment about people not liking Martino....that's something I'm sick of from people around here. Some people don't like Martino because he's making hard decisions about the bloated Catholic school system in this area. They should be closing old schools that were once designed for 500 kids that now only have 50 students. A lot of wasted money, energy, etc. Personally, I think they should shut down the Catholic school system altogether. The Catholic schools are nothing but exclusive schools for the rich anyways....the parents who send their kids to the Catholic schools these days just do so because they think they are too good for public schools. Catholic schools are so expensive that the average person can't afford them anyways....and that's due to the lack of nuns and clergy available to teach, so they have to hire lay teachers at a much higher price tag. Plus, with less people attending church these days, there's less money to support the schools....so the tuition is now so high that most can't afford it. Shut them down.

[Retired Law 08]

By the powers vested in me...I obsolve all of you of your sins....
dominus nobisco...."poof" you are saved...yah!

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by coartist88

By the powers vested in me...I obsolve all of you of your sins....
dominus nobisco...."poof" you are saved...yah!

Thanks, John! We needed a bit of humor here! LOL!

[Jungle George]

Originally Posted by coartist88

by the powers vested in me...i obsolve all of you of your sins....
Dominus nobisco...."poof" you are saved...yah!

roflmao!!

[go phillies]

I'm actually glad Martino's letter was read in Church this Sunday. I was actually leaning toward voting for Obama, but it made me think twice about it. I realize that as a Catholic I cannot support any pro-abortion policies....and Obama is not your average pro-choice politician....he supports infanticide, look up Obama on the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which he opposed. He is way out of the left-wing fringe on abortion. And the next president may have the opportunity to nominate 2 Supreme Court justices. No way I can vote Obama with a clear conscience. But I also can't vote McCain, because I feel this war needs to end....and the bending over for the oil companies has to stop. I think both candidates suck, and I'd probably just stay home on election day, but I do want to cast my vote for Lou Barletta for congress.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by go phillies

I'm actually glad Martino's letter was read in Church this Sunday. I was actually leaning toward voting for Obama, but it made me think twice about it. I realize that as a Catholic I cannot support any pro-abortion policies....and Obama is not your average pro-choice politician....he supports infanticide, look up Obama on the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which he opposed. He is way out of the left-wing fringe on abortion. And the next president may have the opportunity to nominate 2 Supreme Court justices. No way I can vote Obama with a clear conscience. But I also can't vote McCain, because I feel this war needs to end....and the bending over for the oil companies has to stop. I think both candidates suck, and I'd probably just stay home on election day, but I do want to cast my vote for Lou Barletta for congress.

Well I'm a die-hard supporter of Lou Barletta myself, so at least we have one thing in common. I'm also pro-life. I'm just VERY bitter that religion and politics are ALWAYS being MERGED! ARRGHHH!!!

[Jungle George]

Originally Posted by go phillies

I'm actually glad Martino's letter was read in Church this Sunday. I was actually leaning toward voting for Obama, but it made me think twice about it. I realize that as a Catholic I cannot support any pro-abortion policies....and Obama is not your average pro-choice politician....he supports infanticide, look up Obama on the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which he opposed. He is way out of the left-wing fringe on abortion. And the next president may have the opportunity to nominate 2 Supreme Court justices. No way I can vote Obama with a clear conscience. But I also can't vote McCain, because I feel this war needs to end....and the bending over for the oil companies has to stop. I think both candidates suck, and I'd probably just stay home on election day, but I do want to cast my vote for Lou Barletta for congress.

One thing I've learned is that in politics, words are sometimes twisted to have a different "percieved" meaning.

I'm not saying in this particular instance that you cited regarding the BAIP Act, but I've seen that a candidate (or organization) will say "(s)he opposed (approved) this bill", when in actuality, the candidate voted (for or) against it due to clauses or wording that was not to their constituant's or party's liking...not the meaning of the bill itself.

Politics is very convoluted.