Boycott the Roman Catholic Church (Scranton, Washington: vs., authority, tuition)

[Retired Law 08]

Originally Posted by MermanMike

What specifically are your thoughts about the reverend coartist, if you don't mind my asking? To me, he seems like a product of a world that made things very tough for him, and so became bitter against the establishment. Personally I can completely understand that. I've listened to a number of his sermons, including the often-quotes one, and in the context of the entire sermon, his sound bites do not sound nearly as incendiary.

It is pure propaganda when people say that Rev. Wright said America deserved 911...when you listen to the whole speech, it is clear that he said nothing of the sort. His whole message, as I see it, is essentially..."Repent America"...and that is a message that needs to be heard. God Bless America doesn't quite encompass the whole situation...America is not blame-free when one considers why the world is as violent and confused as it is. To turn this boat around, it will take everyone on board to own up to what is ill in their own heart. And Rev. Wright said exactly that in his speech...it is time to look within, to figure out how our own actions have created the world we live in. If we can not do that then there is absolutely utterly no hope for us.

like everyone here I am entitled to my own opinion...and in my opinion this
guy talks alot of.....WHERE WAS HE ON 911...I know where I was..
very offensive and insulting to me....AND YES "GOD BLESS AMERICA...

YouTube - Reverend Jeremiah Wright Blames the U.S. for 9/11

[BLUEDIAMOND64]

Originally Posted by coartist88

like everyone here I am entitled to my own opinion...and in my opinion this
guy talks alot of.....WHERE WAS HE ON 911...I know where I was..
very offensive and insulting to me....AND YES "GOD BLESS AMERICA...

YouTube - Reverend Jeremiah Wright Blames the U.S. for 9/11

I am with you on this one. This is worse than an insult. Where there is smoke, there is fire!

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by go phillies

Do you believe that Obama's church, Trinity United Church of Christ, should lose its tax exemption for Rev. Jeremiah Wright's political sermons from the pulpit? Wright's sermons have been far more directly political than anything that's come from Bishop Martino...
Obama's Spiritual Mentor May Put Church in Hot Water - FOXNews.com Elections

Or is this just another excuse for you to spout off your anti-Catholic beliefs? You don't like anti-gay prejudice....yet you habor quite a bit of prejudice against Catholics.

There always seems to be a bias against the Catholic Church from the left-wing, liberal camp now doesn't there?

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by go phillies

Do you believe that Obama's church, Trinity United Church of Christ, should lose its tax exemption for Rev. Jeremiah Wright's political sermons from the pulpit? Wright's sermons have been far more directly political than anything that's come from Bishop Martino...
Obama's Spiritual Mentor May Put Church in Hot Water - FOXNews.com Elections

Or is this just another excuse for you to spout off your anti-Catholic beliefs? You don't like anti-gay prejudice....yet you habor quite a bit of prejudice against Catholics.

Spin my words however you wish. I would more than happily request the revocation of ANY church's tax-exempt status if they had acted in violation of the IRS. Since when is it "anti-Catholic" to question why the church is allowed to steamroll over the law of the land undeterred? If Bishop Martino had urged those in the Diocese of Scranton to vote based upon whatever candidate opposed same-sex marriage, then I would have no objections to that since BOTH primary candidates oppose it. In that case Bishop Martino left the door open for his flock to select either candidate. However, in this particular example Bishop Martino chose to politicize from the pulpit using a polarized issue in which he is clearly biased in urging his flock to vote for one candidate over the other. Is there really a difference between saying "vote for the pro-life candidate" or "vote for Sen. McCain" if Sen. McCain IS the sole pro-life candidate?

People actually wonder why my family and so many others we know have stopped going to church? I, for one, am tired of people thinking it is "acceptable" for their pastors, priests, bishops, etc. to tell people how to vote. Thankfully I know a host of young Catholics on my campus (and here on the campus of PSU where Obama/Biden signs are EVERYWHERE) who are protesting Bishop Martino by voting for Sen. Obama, but once again what about those easily-impressionable elderly folks who vote in large numbers AND believe everything they're told because they are too trusting of their religious elders? Considering we're on the cusp of a depression and an incessant quagmire overseas under the direction of a failed presidential administration I think there are MORE IMPORTANT issues than abortion or "Adam and Steve." Besides, Congress is still majority Democratic anyways, so what can President McCain (shudder at the thought) do to overturn Roe v. Wade if and when he is elected?

Show me where in this thread I have been "prejudiced against Catholics." All I've done is copy and paste quotes from a media article in order to contrast them with quotes I also copied and pasted from the IRS web site in order to illustrate how Bishop Martino's actions were apparently divergent from the guidelines set forth therein. If you feel threatened that someone is currently conducting legal analysis into your Bishop's actions, then perhaps you yourself should write to your bishop and tell him to think with his brain instead of with his heart once in a while. "Catholics ought to be pro-life" is fine. "Catholics ought to vote for the presidential candidate who supports pro-life issues" is NOT fine when there is only one candidate who shares those views, as it clearly illustrates partisanship. Don't even mention "What about Ron Paul, etc., etc.?" because we all know that those candidates are insignificant, at best, and will garner 2% of the vote, if they are truly fortunate. In that case I might as well argue "Well Moe Sterling down the street is pro-life, so I'll write HIM in as a presidential candidate."

I don't know why you believe I'm being unfair here. I don't tolerate people breaking the laws. I myself have garnered two speeding tickets over the past three years, and I plead guilty to them, paid dearly for them, and to this day feel guilty that I still have "points" on my license because of them. Just last night, being the idiot I am, I walked a girl home here at PSU because I didn't want to see her walking home alone drunk on a campus replete with drunk and undersexed frat boys on "Thirsty Thursday"---I risked conviction of public drunkenness stumbling around trying to do the "right" thing. I don't tolerate Rev. Wright's left-wing comments any more than I tolerate Bishop Martino's right-wing comments. In both cases I hope to see punishments handed down from the IRS. Then again we all know that will never happen because "money talks," if you catch my drift. "Bending the rules," as Bishop Martino did, should NOT be tolerated, especially in such a historically-close and historically-IMPORTANT election.

[ScranBarre]

By the way, you chose to be a Roman Catholic in the Diocese of Scranton. I did not chose to be homosexual, as science is now coming closer and closer to proving. I don't support prejudice in any circumstance, but in this case your argument is flawed since you seem to be implying that "those who live in glass houses..." even though I do NOT have a say in my sexual orientation, which is INHERENT to me (that's even the Roman Catholic's view on homosexuality, so do some research the next time to see that they only condemn homosexual "acts").

[MermanMike]

Coartist, I didn't mean to make it sound like I don't value your opinion. I just wanted you to explain your opinion to me because I value it and I didn't hear you express your reasons for disliking the reverend. I personally think the guy is a highly informed, passionate, interesting person, who has been mischaracterized. Rather than looking at short clips where things get taken out of context, I think it is smart to watch the full orations and get a real idea for what this guy is saying. One place to start is his speech at the national press club. This is part 1:

YouTube - Reverend Jeremiah Wright National Press Club pt.1

I know where I was on 9/11 too, living in NYC, but I don't think that makes my feelings on the subject any more legitimate than someone who experienced it on TV and in print. It was terrible for everyone, and maybe it was more emotional for people in NYC, but we didn't have any more information than people in Chicago.

I'm not a big Obama supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but I think the way Obama is being characterized by his opposition as somehow on the fringes because of his pastor is offensive and borderline racist. Unfortunately the biggest problem as I see it is the lack of good information and honest reporting in the news. We are now living in an age where we have to be our own journalists because the news no longer accurately and unbiasedly reports the news.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by MermanMike

We are now living in an age where we have to be our own journalists because the news no longer accurately and unbiasedly reports the news.

This is exactly what worries me so much about Bishop Martino. I've heavily-researched both Sen. Obama and Sen. McCain via the Internet, but how many of his elderly parishioners have PCs? When I have an elderly customer at work I'm often left out of options because so much of our vendor information that is necessary for me to access what particular part they may need for an item they've purchased in the past is provided through web sites that we can't access at my work terminal (due to not having Internet connections), but then I also can't give them the web address for them to do research on their own at home because 9/10 of them look at me with a puzzled expression because they don't understand modern technologies like the Internet (let alone iPhones, iPods, Garmins, or other everyday gadgets for the rest of us who have managed to adapt to the technological times).

I know people who just sit and watch Fox News while drooling on themselves and decide to vote for Sen. McCain. I know people who just sit and watch CNN while drooling on themselves and decide to vote for Sen. Obama due to the heavy bias of each network towards each of those candidates. I am CERTAIN that many elderly voters will re-elect Rep. Kanjorski over his challenger, Hazleton Mayor Lou Barletta, merely because of Rep. Kanjorski's false ads that imply that Barletta (who ONLY opposes socialized health care) also opposes Medicare, VA Hospitals, CHIP, etc. by saying "government should not be in the health care business." Rep. Kanjorski is obviously a master of twisting words (hence his own quote of "we sort of twisted the facts, and people ate it up"), yet there are a lot of elderly people in this valley who can NOT merely log online to check the web sites of each candidate to form their OWN opinions on their stances on various issues. They just rely upon hearsay, such as television advertisements, and yes, even a strongly-worded "warning" letter from Bishop Martino, in which they are coerced to vote for "the pro-life candidate" (i.e. ONLY Sen. McCain) in order to remain in good standing in the Roman Catholic faith.

The elderly may be part of the "greatest generation," but they are also the most "gullible generation" because they spent their formative years in eras in which humanity still had some integrity left to it. People in 1950 still cared about their neighbors and worked together in more of a communal sense. Nowadays those in my Generation Y and the Echo Boom have already been jaded towards society (we grew up during Lewinsky, Enron, WorldCom, Adelphia, Arthur-Andersen, Martha Stewart, President Bush, etc.) and trust nobody (and with good reason). I'm not "thrilled" to be voting for Sen. Obama, but I also feel as if it is unfair for Bishop Martino to be urging his flock to shut him out on Election Day. That in itself is classless, the potential IRS tax-exemption ramifications notwithstanding. Call me a cynic, but I'm not going to let this issue die down until Bishop Martino clarifies what he meant by "the pro-life candidate" when there is only ONE such candidate---I'm curious to hear how he can draw a distinction between such a statement and displaying partisanship.

[I LOVE PA!]

The paper says today that we are in for more from Bishop Martino....Oct 19 all masses will listen to a tape recorded 'sermon' about the closing of parishes. Could he have heard from his 'flock' that they didn't want to read any more of his speeches?

[returningtonepa???]

i am one of those elderly catholics with a pc----have done my research ----neither candidate has all the answers and martino DID NOT say vote for mccain----following your logic swb--obama CHOSE NOT to be supportive of right to life---palin (WHO IS NOT CATHOLIC) did--as Christian voters we need to vote as our conscience dictates
and as someone in the medical field it is NOT proven that people are born gay----is it less acceptable to say someone CHOSE the gay life?

and you do sound anti-catholic!

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by returningtonepa???

i am one of those elderly catholics with a pc----have done my research ----neither candidate has all the answers and martino DID NOT say vote for mccain----following your logic swb--obama CHOSE NOT to be supportive of right to life---palin (WHO IS NOT CATHOLIC) did--as Christian voters we need to vote as our conscience dictates
and as someone in the medical field it is NOT proven that people are born gay----is it less acceptable to say someone CHOSE the gay life?

and you do sound anti-catholic!

"Vote for the pro-life candidate" vs. "Vote for Sen. McCain" is synonymous in my eyes when that man IS the ONLY pro-life candidate. Hasn't anyone bothered to read the bold quotations I copied and pasted directly from the web site of the IRS? This isn't merely a case of me spouting "anti-Catholicism," and once again I must respectfully ask both you and Go Phillies to quote specific points I addressed in which I disrespected Roman Catholics on a personal level. Finding the practice of "politicizing from the pulpit" to be reprehensible when it is in direct violation of the very guidelines that guarantee a tax-exempt status is NOT being "hateful." It is rightfully questioning why a renegade bishop can steamroll over the law of the land. When you have local cities, such as Scranton, struggling financially to begin with due to having a high presence of Roman Catholic institutions within its municipal boundaries that it can't draw tax revenues from and then see those very same structures being used to spew political venom grates on my nerves to no end. I've stopped attending church because I didn't agree with a sermon that brought Fox News, Rosie O'Donnell, and the "liberal fascists" into the fray. Keep politics OUT of houses of worship or continue to see the ranks of Atheists swell tremendously as we continue to become disillusioned with our faiths.