Scranton really does suck (Wilkes-Barre, York: transplants, buying, schools)

[njmike]

Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008

Actually, I couldn't agree with you more. The problem in Scranton is a short-sighted, money spending fool for a mayor. And the sheep here keep re-electing him. By re-electing him, the people of Scranton will never improve their city. You're also right when you say Scranton will never be an up and coming city that some people want it to be. It will be what it always has been and to some people that's just fine, for me personally, no. I know there has to be more in life than living in Scranton the rest of my life.

We're facing the facts but try to convince the Scrantonions of this. It seems they're walking around with (horse) blinders on and don't want to see anything but what's right in front of them. There is an awful lot to do OUTSIDE OF Scranton.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by njmike

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Scranbarre, Scranton will never be the idealistic city that you want/hope it to be. That's reality.

Agreed, hence why my fellow young professionals and I are moving out en masse to other areas of the BosWash Corridor.

[njmike]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

Agreed, hence why my fellow young professionals and I are moving out en masse to other areas of the BosWash Corridor.

I'll give you the same advice I gave my kids. Get your education (a lot of GOOD colleges/universities here) but move out of the area if you want to get somewhere in life and make something of yourself.

My son does research at a hospital in NYC that's associated with Mt. Sinai and my daughter is an RN in California. My son got his Bacholer's from Penn State and Masters from Marywood. My daughter got her education from UC (I think Berkley).

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by njmike

I'll give you the same advice I gave my kids. Get your education (a lot of GOOD colleges/universities here) but move out of the area if you want to get somewhere in life and make something of yourself.

My son does research at a hospital in NYC that's associated with Mt. Sinai and my daughter is an RN in California. My son got his Bacholer's from Penn State and Masters from Marywood. My daughter got her education from UC (I think Berkley).

You know the saddest part of this area? Not ONE of my friends in college is staying here. Every last one of them is taking their degree and high-tailing it away. Sure, we have great institutions of higher learning here and produce thousands of newly-degreed minds annually, but if 99.999% of them flee, then what good is that doing us? Not a damn thing. The U.S. Census Bureau will still show the same very high poverty rates, the same very low educational attainment rates, the same high unemployment figures will be "tastefully reconstructed" into a positive spin by people like Austin Burke, etc. My friends who sought to interview with NYC companies and had multiple job offers in the BosWash Corridor keep on giddily asking "so which one of YOUR offers did you pick? PwC? Reznick?" I grimace and tell them "none." They just kind of look at me dumbfounded and then try to change the subject, not realizing that not ALL of us want a job in Manhattan. Sure, I COULD aggressively pursue a career opportunity in a major city and I COULD conceivably snag a few offers, but why would I want to earn $55,000 in Manhattan with a rent on a one-bedroom apartment of $2,000 per month (or more) when I could earn $40,000 in Scranton with mortgage on a three-bedroom HOME of $850/month? A lot of my peers are shacking up with roommates in the city. So they go from dorming to "dorming" again? Where's the "privacy" in that? When you get to your mid-20s relationships start to become important, and I'd hate to have to tell a date I couldn't take him/her home "because there's a few guys upstairs living with me because I still can't afford my own place."

I just don't understand the "allure" of New York City to NEPA's college graduates. Obviously if the empty-nesters are FLOCKING to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre from the city, as evidence by this forum alone, then this area isn't so bad after all, right?

Furthermore, Boris, I stand by my comments. I don't know why you thought I was "attacking diversity" because I maligned the fact that this area's "high culture" revolves mostly around beer drinking, hunting, high school football, making ethnic wise-cracks/gay jokes, and teacher-bashing. We're a relatively large metropolitan area. We SHOULD be displaying more "class" than that! You say "State College didn't happen overnight." Well, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre has been trying to reinvent itself for how many DECADES? Other cities build SKYSCRAPERS faster than our cities can build a small downtown loft apartment complex. Excuse me for becoming frustrated by such a lack of social progress in the region, especially when I read more and more BAD ECONOMIC NEWS about sky-high unemployment rates, escalating poverty rates, and abysmal educational attainment rates, only to see everyone in power tip-toeing around these issues to try to "make lemonade." If these same think-tanks did a study on how many people locally were UNDEREMPLOYED, we'd probably be amongst the most prominent areas in that regard. I can rattle off so many local college graduates who are earning far less than those without degrees are earning in many other areas. For those who once again wish to argue about that, I have statistics from the U.S. Census Bureau that provide credence to my FACT that household income is generally PROGRESSIVE with educational attainment. No, a degree should not "entitle" you to anything except for a foot-in-the-door. However, EVENTUALLY that degree SHOULD earn you a higher salary. If it doesn't, then that speaks volumes about how little employers in our region really do pay!

[njmike]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

You know the saddest part of this area? Not ONE of my friends in college is staying here. Every last one of them is taking their degree and high-tailing it away. Sure, we have great institutions of higher learning here and produce thousands of newly-degreed minds annually, but if 99.999% of them flee, then what good is that doing us? Not a damn thing. The U.S. Census Bureau will still show the same very high poverty rates, the same very low educational attainment rates, the same high unemployment figures will be "tastefully reconstructed" into a positive spin by people like Austin Burke, etc. My friends who sought to interview with NYC companies and had multiple job offers in the BosWash Corridor keep on giddily asking "so which one of YOUR offers did you pick? PwC? Reznick?" I grimace and tell them "none." They just kind of look at me dumbfounded and then try to change the subject, not realizing that not ALL of us want a job in Manhattan. Sure, I COULD aggressively pursue a career opportunity in a major city and I COULD conceivably snag a few offers, but why would I want to earn $55,000 in Manhattan with a rent on a one-bedroom apartment of $2,000 per month (or more) when I could earn $40,000 in Scranton with mortgage on a three-bedroom HOME of $850/month? A lot of my peers are shacking up with roommates in the city. So they go from dorming to "dorming" again? Where's the "privacy" in that? When you get to your mid-20s relationships start to become important, and I'd hate to have to tell a date I couldn't take him/her home "because there's a few guys upstairs living with me because I still can't afford my own place."

I just don't understand the "allure" of New York City to NEPA's college graduates. Obviously if the empty-nesters are FLOCKING to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre from the city, as evidence by this forum alone, then this area isn't so bad after all, right?

Furthermore, Boris, I stand by my comments. I don't know why you thought I was "attacking diversity" because I maligned the fact that this area's "high culture" revolves mostly around beer drinking, hunting, high school football, making ethnic wise-cracks/gay jokes, and teacher-bashing. We're a relatively large metropolitan area. We SHOULD be displaying more "class" than that! You say "State College didn't happen overnight." Well, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre has been trying to reinvent itself for how many DECADES? Other cities build SKYSCRAPERS faster than our cities can build a small downtown loft apartment complex. Excuse me for becoming frustrated by such a lack of social progress in the region, especially when I read more and more BAD ECONOMIC NEWS about sky-high unemployment rates, escalating poverty rates, and abysmal educational attainment rates, only to see everyone in power tip-toeing around these issues to try to "make lemonade." If these same think-tanks did a study on how many people locally were UNDEREMPLOYED, we'd probably be amongst the most prominent areas in that regard. I can rattle off so many local college graduates who are earning far less than those without degrees are earning in many other areas. For those who once again wish to argue about that, I have statistics from the U.S. Census Bureau that provide credence to my FACT that household income is generally PROGRESSIVE with educational attainment. No, a degree should not "entitle" you to anything except for a foot-in-the-door. However, EVENTUALLY that degree SHOULD earn you a higher salary. If it doesn't, then that speaks volumes about how little employers in our region really do pay!

Try higher salaries, more diverse jobs, etc. This goes for all major cities, not just NYC. The job I was doing here, in the hotels where I was making $18,000 to $20,000 a year, gets $48,000 to $50,000 a year. There are a lot more hotels to move around in, to get a better deal, than there is here. I'm close to retirement now so I don't have to worry about the salary I wanted years ago. The big cities also offer mass transit that Scranton/Wilkes-Barre will never see and the mass transit runs 24/7.

[nepanite]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

You know the saddest part of this area? Not ONE of my friends in college is staying here. Every last one of them is taking their degree and high-tailing it away.

Trust me on this, if you think a lot are leaving now how do you think it will be in the next three years, five years, ten years etc. It is a vicious cycle of which the cause has not been addressed and will probably not be for a long time. Did it ever occur to you, that perhaps "some" benefit from this cyclic activity?


Sure, we have great institutions of higher learning here and produce thousands of newly-degreed minds annually, but if 99.999% of them flee, then what good is that doing us? Not a damn thing.

Exactly, I believe that your friend "weluvpa" will concur

The U.S. Census Bureau will still show the same very high poverty rates, the same very low educational attainment rates, the same high unemployment figures will be "tastefully reconstructed" into a positive spin by people like Austin Burke, etc. My friends who sought to interview with NYC companies and had multiple job offers in the BosWash Corridor keep on giddily asking "so which one of YOUR offers did you pick? PwC? Reznick?" I grimace and tell them "none." They just kind of look at me dumbfounded and then try to change the subject, not realizing that not ALL of us want a job in Manhattan. Sure, I COULD aggressively pursue a career opportunity in a major city and I COULD conceivably snag a few offers, but why would I want to earn $55,000 in Manhattan with a rent on a one-bedroom apartment of $2,000 per month (or more) when I could earn $40,000 in Scranton with mortgage on a three-bedroom HOME of $850/month?

I know I have addressed before and I vaguely recall it being addressed by another poster with a strong financial background. In short, be careful of using current situations (ie entry level salary #s) to predict future events. Bottom line, their initial salaries are higher and more importantly, their three year, five year, etc salary jumps will be substantially higher if they play their cards right. Obviously,nothing is guaranteed. Once again, are you willing to suport an area that may not be willing to support you? Make your choice



I just don't understand the "allure" of New York City to NEPA's college graduates.

You've expressed the "allure" yourself. Not to be cruel, but how many good job offers have you received in the area compared to others? Not that it is a reflection on you, it is moreso a reflection on the area. Bottom line, are you willing to support an economy that may not be willing to support you? Not saying it won't, there are excellent paying positions in the area but the quantity is certainly lower than some other areas that are geographically very close.
About a year ago, I mentioned two acquaintaces with MBAs that were struggling to find a position and unfortunately their status has not changed. They were lucky enough to receive unemployment in an election year which has led to at least two extensions but remain unemployed one year later. Obviously not good but as someone explained to me. In a way, they are contributing to the problem since they should have moved to an area with more open positions. Obviously, the recent economic downturn has made that option even less attractive since most areas of the country have been hit.


Obviously if the empty-nesters are FLOCKING to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre from the city, as evidence by this forum alone, then this area isn't so bad after all, right?

Means nothing in terms of its relevance to your current position and situation as a young person full of life but willing to let an idealistic vision of a shangri la entity that never existed in the first place squash it like a bug.

Furthermore, Boris, I stand by my comments. I don't know why you thought I was "attacking diversity" because I maligned the fact that this area's "high culture" revolves mostly around beer drinking, hunting, high school football, making ethnic wise-cracks/gay jokes, and teacher-bashing. We're a relatively large metropolitan area. We SHOULD be displaying more "class" than that! You say "State College didn't happen overnight." Well, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre has been trying to reinvent itself for how many DECADES? Other cities build SKYSCRAPERS faster than our cities can build a small downtown loft apartment complex. Excuse me for becoming frustrated by such a lack of social progress in the region, especially when I read more and more BAD ECONOMIC NEWS about sky-high unemployment rates, escalating poverty rates, and abysmal educational attainment rates, only to see everyone in power tip-toeing around these issues to try to "make lemonade." If these same think-tanks did a study on how many people locally were UNDEREMPLOYED, we'd probably be amongst the most prominent areas in that regard.

Without a doubt, you just saved me a lot of typing both above and below.
Believe me, if history is an indicator then you will find that as you move up into your late twenties, thirties, forties and beyond that this pattern continues. It is amazing but it is much more fun to read about than to live it. Continue on your path and you will live it.

I can rattle off so many local college graduates who are earning far less than those without degrees are earning in many other areas. For those who once again wish to argue about that, I have statistics from the U.S. Census Bureau that provide credence to my FACT that household income is generally PROGRESSIVE with educational attainment. No, a degree should not "entitle" you to anything except for a foot-in-the-door. However, EVENTUALLY that degree SHOULD earn you a higher salary. If it doesn't, then that speaks volumes about how little employers in our region really do pay!

But here is the thing, people choose to be a victim. It may not be easy but they can make choices that would take themselves out of the equation.
I usually don't respond to posts but with this one you came so close to the truth I just couldn't resist. C'est la vie!

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by njmike

Try higher salaries, more diverse jobs, etc. This goes for all major cities, not just NYC. The job I was doing here, in the hotels where I was making $18,000 to $20,000 a year, gets $48,000 to $50,000 a year. There are a lot more hotels to move around in, to get a better deal, than there is here. I'm close to retirement now so I don't have to worry about the salary I wanted years ago. The big cities also offer mass transit that Scranton/Wilkes-Barre will never see and the mass transit runs 24/7.

You're right. The SWB cities are second tier in comparison to other major metro areas in this country. Of course you're going to make more money and have better jobs in a big metro area, like NY, Philly or Boston. And by the same token, houses and taxes are going to be more in those areas. So you have to choose what makes you the most happy and where you're doing it.

[returningtonepa???]

Originally Posted by go phillies

Absolutely not....Cleaner well-kept neighborhoods in Wilkes-Barre???...what are you smoking? Wilkes-Barre's downtown may be making some progress, but that doesn't make the city more liveable.

Scranton is leaps and bounds ahead of Wilkes-Barre in the liveable neighborhoods department. Plus, Scranton also has a lot of nice architecture, while Wilkes-Barre's housing is more white aluminum sided coal-miner houses with barn-shaped roofs crammed together.

am not smoking--anything----coming from a different state--i cannot help but notice how much dirtier the streets and properties are in scranton--at least wb has street cleaners!

COULD YOUR PROBLEM WITH WILKES-BARRE BE DUE TO ITS MORE OBVIOUS DIVERSITY????

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by returningtonepa???

COULD YOUR PROBLEM WITH WILKES-BARRE BE DUE TO ITS MORE OBVIOUS DIVERSITY????

What the hell does that mean? When was the last time you actually took a ride thru Scranton? Don't get me wrong I think that both downtowns suck in their own right, but come on. Oh sorry I realize that your coming in "from a different state" and all....But us dumb mountain folk just don't see things the way your enlightened eyes do, huh...

Obviously you have seen the world outside of scranton and I for one am envious of you.....Its hard for us rednecks to get of our homes nevermind out of the state like you did, wow your perspective of the area must be grand since you know you are "coming in from a different state" and all. Thats so cool, please tell us what the world outside of our little valley is like.....

Do they have those electric cars? Did you ever see anyone from a different state while you were in a different state? How cool. I bet you even saw people with those new cell phone things.

Hell I even saw one of those SUV things with license plates from New York when I was Agway buying feed for the animals....They were even talkin with one of them accents you hear on the TV. Cool.

[go phillies]

Originally Posted by returningtonepa???

am not smoking--anything----coming from a different state--i cannot help but notice how much dirtier the streets and properties are in scranton--at least wb has street cleaners!

COULD YOUR PROBLEM WITH WILKES-BARRE BE DUE TO ITS MORE OBVIOUS DIVERSITY????

How much dirtier the properties are???? Scranton's neighborhoods are much better kept than Wilkes-Barre's. My problem is not with the "diversity" per se, but W-B is attracting the wrong kind of minorities.....many of them come here for the welfare, the handouts, section 8, and the drug trade....this area is not a good representation of the black race. It wouldn't be bad if this area was attracting more decent black families...I would rather have good black neighbors than trashy white neighbors anyday. You might say that Scranton is less racially "diverse" than W-B, but that's not true....Scranton has more of a hispanic population than W-B, but generally the hispanics are coming here for work and to raise families.

Aside from the demographics, W-B is just visually an ugly city. Its an architectural nightmare....rows upon rows of unkempt white aluminum-sided barn-shaped-roof houses crammed together.

Scranton has its problems, but what keeps me positive about Scranton is that I compare it to the 8 hours a day I have to spend in the sh*thole known as Wilkes-Barre.