Scranton really does suck (Penn, Mexico: crime, felony, transfer)

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by mbs7

Many people in various areas of the country are concerned about the problem of illegal aliens, not just Scranton. However, it's interesting that you hear so much about the illegal aliens and so little about the people who are hiring them. While I do not condone entering another country illegally, I feel morally obligated to point out that illegal aliens were often living in terrible poverty in their own countries and in coming here they were doing what they believed was best to help their children--which is basically the same thing that many of us would do if we had had the misfortune to be born in an impoverished country where there is little chance of ever building a better life for the next generation. If you want to get mad at someone, why not get mad at employers who don't want to pay decent wages and knowingly hire illegal aliens?

Illegal aliens may make a convenient target, but Scranton's problems--like those of many other small cities around the country--go a lot deeper. If you concentrate on illegal aliens, you're likely to miss the many other real problems which, I assure you, would still remain even if every illegal were to go back to his/her country tomorrow morning.

You make some good points. I do blame the government and the employers for letting this problem continue. I still say they don't have a right to be here, they should go through the same process as everyone else. We can't worry about the conditions of other countries. We have to worry about ourselves first. I understand if they live in third world countries, but come on, we can't let every possible person in that comes from an impoverished country. That's just not realistic, we don't have unlimited means and resources here in the USA.

I can tell you first hand there are many other problems here in the Electric City. The illegal alien problem is just one on a long list of many.

[sues1]

Originally Posted by mbs7

Many people in various areas of the country are concerned about the problem of illegal aliens, not just Scranton. However, it's interesting that you hear so much about the illegal aliens and so little about the people who are hiring them. While I do not condone entering another country illegally, I feel morally obligated to point out that illegal aliens were often living in terrible poverty in their own countries and in coming here they were doing what they believed was best to help their children--which is basically the same thing that many of us would do if we had had the misfortune to be born in an impoverished country where there is little chance of ever building a better life for the next generation. If you want to get mad at someone, why not get mad at employers who don't want to pay decent wages and knowingly hire illegal aliens?

Illegal aliens may make a convenient target, but Scranton's problems--like those of many other small cities around the country--go a lot deeper. If you concentrate on illegal aliens, you're likely to miss the many other real problems which, I assure you, would still remain even if every illegal were to go back to his/her country tomorrow morning.

I completely see what you're saying about them wanting a better life and coming here to do it, that's fine. My issue with it is if you're moving to another country to find a better life and you come here and you don't have children then keep it that way until you become legal and find your way and can support them on your own, don't have child after child and expect to get free handouts in the country you just moved to, that's not finding a better way of life, that's looking for freebies and it's not right.

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

So what's the answer, folks? We've been beating around the bush on this forum for over two years now as to whether Scranton hinges upon the cusp of a renaissance or utter failure. What should we do? Should we drop a nuclear bomb on the Electric City and start over? Obviously these circular arguments have gotten the city NOWHERE over the past few years.

P.S. For those of you saying that these Internet forums mean nothing, you are sadly mistaken. This forum now has roughly a half-million members along with millions of unique visitors. Do a search for something Scranton-oriented on Google, and a thread from this forum undoubtedly arises near the top of your results. To imply that the city's government is unaware of what is happening on this forum, Doherty Deceit, and every other Scranton-centric forum out there is ludicrous. If a "know-nothing" like me can attract over 5,000,000 people to read what I have to type, then obviously this forum's power spreads much further than you'll ever know.

I really don't think that the city pays any attention to forums.......I don't think that they pay any attention to anything but themselves.


As far as what to do? Get rid of Doherty...........Then cut back all the newly created useless postions that he formed and filled with crony kids. Cut the salaries back to where they should. Settle the police and fire contracts so that the residents of the city can feel safe again in their homes and neighborhoods.

After we have cleaned out the trash and cut the useless jobs we can then concentrate on the infastructure of the city, because no matter what type of housing you build if the streets are not safe and in good shape people won't care.

Get the city back on its financial track....get the debt down and then and only then we could afford to put money into those extra projects.

Stop the socialist gov't backed private projects.....If the developers do not have enough faith in the city to use their own money then why would we put any faith in their projects or their commitment to the city? Lets face it when things get tough they are all going to run because they have NO PERSONAL FINANCIAL STAKE in the city like the rest of us do.

The people of this city need come to first....Their safety, their sense of pride in their city and neighborhoods, financial best interest all need to come first..

Stop worrying about the downtown and start worrying about the rest of the city...the least populated area of the city has recieved the most attention and people are leaving and they are leaving in large numbers for safer and greener pastures and I for one don't blame them.

The simplist answer is to get rid of Doherty....He is the CEO, the head honcho, the big cheese and he alone shoulders the full responsiblity for the current state of the city and its financial affairs, but since we have no accountability in the city he will never take that responsiblity and we will be left with the tab for his arrogance........generations will be paying down the $500,000,000 in long term debt.

[mbs7]

Originally Posted by sues1

I completely see what you're saying about them wanting a better life and coming here to do it, that's fine. My issue with it is if you're moving to another country to find a better life and you come here and you don't have children then keep it that way until you become legal and find your way and can support them on your own, don't have child after child and expect to get free handouts in the country you just moved to, that's not finding a better way of life, that's looking for freebies and it's not right.

I don't think **anyone** should keep having children that they can't support; but this is a problem that is not confined to illegal immigrants. I think the way to combat the problem of people having children they can't support is to provide education and medical help (including reliable birth control). I can't condone cutting off funds to the children, who are certainly not to blame for the situation in any way.

While I understand that illegal aliens are a problem and I'm **not** saying that I think it's okay to enter a country illegally, I still maintain that this is a relatively small problem among a host of much larger problems. It's a distraction--a way to move people's attention away from those much larger, deeper problems.

[sues1]

Subject: HELP IS ON THE WAY


A CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE hits Mexico. Two million
Mexicans die and over a million are injured. The country is totally ruined
and the government doesn't know where to start and is asking for help to
rebuild. The rest of the world is in shock.

Canada is sending troopers to help the Mexican army control the riots.

Saudi Arabia is sending oil.

Other Latin American countries are sending supplies.

The European community (except France ) is sending food and money.

The United States, not to be outdone, is sending two million Mexicans to replace the dead ones. God bless America!!!

[NYRangers 2008]

The light at the end of the tunnel for Scranton to remotely get out of it's black hole is to indeed get rid of Doherty. He's screwed the city up so bad, it will take years for the city to recover under the next mayor. If the sheep re-elect him next year, we might as well level the Electric City and start anew, like Paul suggested.

[blip]

Originally Posted by mbs7

Illegal aliens may make a convenient target, but Scranton's problems--like those of many other small cities around the country--go a lot deeper. If you concentrate on illegal aliens, you're likely to miss the many other real problems which, I assure you, would still remain even if every illegal were to go back to his/her country tomorrow morning.

Good post.

You're right, it's a relatively small problem, especially here in PA. We could spend infinite attention and resources trying to completely stamp it out, to very little benefit.

And I thought we should be glad anyone actually wants to move here.

[blip]

Originally Posted by randyinpa

illegal ailens are not immigrants, they are criminals.

as i understand it, that's not true. it's not a crime, but a civil offense.

either way, they're still immigrants.

[blip]

Originally Posted by TheHighHat

Yep, some credence in your post. If you are not part of the solution then perhaps a part of the problem.

True that.

Though weluv, I'm glad to see you finally post your prescriptions about what you'd do. I hope you'll start a new thread to spell out the debt figures you have..

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by blip

as i understand it, that's not true. it's not a crime, but a civil offense.

either way, they're still immigrants.

No, it's a crime. And they're not immigrants if they're here illegally. And why exactly do we need more people in this country? Don't we have enough on our plate already without having to deal with this problem also? I think we're diverse enough, no more is really needed in my opinion.