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No, it's a crime. And they're not immigrants if they're here illegally. And why exactly do we need more people in this country? Don't we have enough on our plate already without having to deal with this problem also? I think we're diverse enough, no more is really needed in my opinion.
What's your basis for saying that? It's handled as a civil offense in the courts, so they're not criminals. Nobody's getting up in arms about speeders (pretty much everyone) being criminals. We're all illegals by that measure. One could argue that with 40,000 deaths and even more debilitating injuries by automobile each year, that's a better target for zero tolerance.
If the standard is that we need to fully enforce every law on the books, our country will go bankrupt trying to do so. Whether we want it on our plate or not, it's there, and we can't press some magic button that removes all illegal immigrants from Scranton at no cost.
Pennsylvania is the 6th largest state by population (being passed recently by Illinois, which has proven far more attractive to immigrants.) But, we're not even in the top ten for illegal immigrant populations, partly because of our crappy economy. Given how NEPA is even worse economically than other parts of the state, I'd assume most of them are going to areas with better economic prospects. So, I don't believe it's a pressing issue here.
I hear a lot of people complaining about illegal immigrants, but don't believe many of these folks have ever actually met someone who is one, and are just assuming anyone speaking Spanish is here illegally.
Give me some real numbers on them and the economics, and maybe I'll worry about it more.
Illegal Immigrant Births - At Your Expense
Taxpayers Foot Bill For Roughly 300,000 Children Born Into Citizenship When Their Parents Are Illegal
McALLEN, Texas, April 7, 2008
(CBS) It was 5 a.m. and CBS News national correspondent Byron Pitts is with a woman who is nine months pregnant. She's rushed to a south Texas hospital to undergo a C-section - a $4,700 medical procedure that won't cost her a dime. She qualifies for emergency Medicaid.
She gave birth to a healthy, 8 1/2 pound baby boy - born in America. His Mexican mother gave him an American name: Eliot.
Eliot is one of an estimated 300,000 children of illegal immigrants born in the United States every year, according to the Pew Hispanic Center. They're given instant citizenship because they are born on U.S. soil, which makes it easier for their parents to become U.S. citizens.
That's because those babies can eventually sponsor their parents - when they turn 21 years old.
As for Eliot's mother, no longer as fearful of deportation, she told CBS News her name, Fabiola, and her story.
"So your son is an American citizen. What does that mean to you?" Pitts asked.
"I am very glad that he was born. That's why I came here - so my children, my husband and I could have a better life," she said through a translator.
Back in December, when she was six months pregnant, Fabiola, her husband and their two daughters - ages 4 and 11 - crossed the Rio Grande from Mexico into the U.S.
Once on the other side of the river they walked for two hours in search of a better life and free medical care for their unborn child.
"Do many women in Mexico make the choice to have their children in the United States?" Pitts asked.
"Yes," she said through a translator. "I know people who have done that. Things are much better here in the U.S. because they help children so much more."
It's a "better" life ... that American taxpayers help pay for.
Take healthcare for example -- an estimated $1.1 billion per year for undocumented men, women and children, according to the Rand Corporation.
Joe Riley is the CEO of the McAllen Texas Medical Center near the Texas-Mexico border. Forty percent of the children born there, nearly 2,400 last year, were the babies of illegal immigrants.
Riley has seen and heard it all.
"Mothers about to give birth that walk up to the hospital still wet from swimming across the river in actual labor … dirty, wet, cold," he said.
But here to have a child?
"Here to have a child in the U.S.," he said.
McAllen is part of a large hospital system. Like all hospitals, it is mandated by law to treat all emergency-room patients, not verify citizenship.
"We have uncompensated care of over $200 million a year," Riley said.
"Of money that you'll never see again?" Pitts asked.
"Yes," he said.
Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, said: "It is not fair to the taxpayers who have to foot the bill."
Congress has all but given up on comprehensive immigration reform. But lawmakers like Smith want to solve birth citizenship to illegal immigrants, in part by challenging the 14th Amendment, which guarantees U.S. citizenship to any child born in America.
"It seems fundamentally wrong that we ought to give the greatest honor of their citizenship," Smith said. "His or her mother came across the border illegally."
Many Americans who struggle to take care of their own families think it is unfair that they should take care of a family and they are not U.S. citizens.
"I don't understand the resentment," said. "I know that God will help them, too."
That's what Fabiola's doing for young Eliot. Relying on her faith, her family … and the U.S. government.
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
Apologists for illegal immigration like to paint it as a victimless crime. But in fact, illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population--the poor, minorities, and children.
Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.
Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants willing to work at substandard wages and working conditions depresses the wages of American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees. Ý
Illegal immigration also contributes to the dramatic population growth overwhelming communities across America--crowding school classrooms, consuming already limited affordable housing, and straining precious natural resources like water, energy, and forestland.
Check out this site for the numbers about illegal immigration
So what are you saying that the U.S Code Under Title 8 Section 1325 is wrong? They are criminals.....
You are more then welcome to put up any links to any sites that will show how illegal immigration is economically helping the U.S.. You are also more then welcome to put up any sites and links that show that our healthcare system is benefiting from illegal immigration.
Please feel free to post your back-up info and support for your opinion on illegal immigration.
Let's be sure we're getting mad at the right people. I hear a lot of complaints about illegal immigrants getting free medical care. But do we resent this because we don't want them getting the care, or because so many of us are extremely frustrated that so many U.S. citizens cannot get decent medical care? Maybe the people we should be mad at are the ones who have failed, time and time again, to give **everyone** in this country a decent health care system.
Also, when it comes to Social Security, there is at least some evidence to indicate that illegal immigrants actually help keep the system solvent. See, for example:
So what are you saying that the U.S Code Under Title 8 Section 1325 is wrong? They are criminals.....
Are you saying that Giuliani doesn't know what's a crime and what isn't? Not all violations of the law are crimes. I guess I trust his opinion as a former DA on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weluvpa
You are more then welcome to put up any links to any sites that will show how illegal immigration is economically helping the U.S.. You are also more then welcome to put up any sites and links that show that our healthcare system is benefiting from illegal immigration.
Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weluvpa
Please feel free to post your back-up info and support for your opinion on illegal immigration.
If I were proposing blowing lots of money on something, then I would gladly look into the economics of it. Until I see that, I'll conclude things like the border fence are a huge waste of taxpayer money.
Well, I still believe that it's a crime. It's not murder or rape, but it's still violating the laws of this country. The border fence is ineffective and I don't say pump more money into that, but there has to be a way for our government to stop the influx of illegals and to protect the citizens of the United States. It has been proven that illegal's are a drain on our economy and even bring diseases in this country that we never had before. As I stated numerous time on this forum in the past, I have no problem with immigrants that are here legally and go through the system properly. As for the illegal ones, do we really need them not contributing and using our healthcare system. The economy is bad enough for the people that are already here, do we really need more now?
Are you saying that Giuliani doesn't know what's a crime and what isn't? Not all violations of the law are crimes.
I'm not questioning Giulani....But the law is the law....
I'm wondering something.......Why are people actually ok with residents from another country ILLEGALLY entering their nation? Irregardless of what country or where they come from or nationality.......Doesn't anyone think that we need to have SAFE BORDERS that provide control over our SOVEREIGNTY, control over its our immigration policies?
The US/Mexico border is a different world, a war zone with OUR POLICE and OUR FEDERAL AGENTS being shot at on a dailey basis......Do you actually think that it is right?
Gun Battles on our border everyday......The cartels want to be able to use our joke of a border and the illegal immigrants as ways to get drugs into this country and they are killing and kidnapping OUR people along the border in the SW US....Do you think that this is ok?
There is no right or wrong side of this....People are illegally entering our nation and its a violation of our laws...Its also not right and the citizens of this nation should not have to pay for anything that goes to anyone that is in our country illegally....They have NO right to our services and or jobs if they are not willing to enter this nation legally.
Again why is it ok for anyone to illegally enter this or any other nation?
From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access
[wais.access.gpo.gov]
[Laws in effect as of January 3, 2006]
[CITE: 8USC1325]
TITLE 8--ALIENS AND NATIONALITY
CHAPTER 12--IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY
SUBCHAPTER II--IMMIGRATION
Part VIII--General Penalty Provisions
Sec. 1325. Improper entry by alien
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at
any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3)
attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully
false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a
material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be
fined under title 18 (http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title18/title18.html - broken link)or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and,
for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title
18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter)
the United States at a time or place other than as designated by
immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of--
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in
lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose
of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for
not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for
the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be
imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18,
or both.
(June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title II, ch. 8, Sec. 275, 66 Stat. 229; Pub.
L. 99-639, Sec. 2(d), Nov. 10, 1986, 100 Stat. 3542; Pub. L. 101-649,
title I, Sec. 121(b)(3), title V, Sec. 543(b)(2), Nov. 29, 1990, 104
Stat. 4994, 5059; Pub. L. 102-232, title III, Sec. 306(c)(3), Dec. 12,
1991, 105 Stat. 1752; Pub. L. 104-208, div. C, title I, Sec. 105(a),
Sept. 30, 1996, 110 Stat. 3009-556.)
Amendments
1996--Subsecs. (b) to (d). Pub. L. 104-208 added subsec. (b) and
redesignated former subsecs. (b) and (c) as (c) and (d), respectively.
1991--Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 102-232 substituted ``fined under title
18'' for ``fined not more than $2,000 (or, if greater, the amount
provided under title 18)''.
1990--Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 101-649, Sec. 543(b)(2), inserted ``or
attempts to enter'' after ``(1) enters'' and ``attempts to enter or''
after ``or (3)'', and substituted ``shall, for the first commission of
any such offense, be fined not more than $2,000 (or, if greater, the
amount provided under title 18) or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or
both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined
under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years'' for ``shall, for the first commission of any such offenses, be guilty of a misdemeanor
and upon conviction thereof be punished by imprisonment for not more
than six months, or by a fine of not more than $500, or by both, and for a subsequent commission of any such offenses shall be guilty of a felony
and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment for not
more than two years, or by a fine of not more than $1,000''.
Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 101-649, Sec. 121(b)(3), added subsec. (c).
1986--Pub. L. 99-639 designated existing provisions as subsec. (a)
and added subsec. (b).
Effective Date of 1996 Amendment
Section 105(b) of div. C of Pub. L. 104-208 provided that: ``The
amendments made by subsection (a) [amending this section] shall apply to
illegal entries or attempts to enter occurring on or after the first day
of the sixth month beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act
[Sept. 30, 1996].''
Effective Date of 1991 Amendment
Amendment by Pub. L. 102-232 effective as if included in the
enactment of the Immigration Act of 1990, Pub. L. 101-649, see section
310(1) of Pub. L. 102-232, set out as a note under section 1101 of this
title.
Effective Date of 1990 Amendment
Amendment by section 121(b)(3) of Pub. L. 101-649 effective Oct. 1,
1991, and applicable beginning with fiscal year 1992, see section 161(a)
of Pub. L. 101-649, set out as a note under section 1101 of this title.
Amendment by section 543(b)(2) of Pub. L. 101-649 applicable to
actions taken after Nov. 29, 1990, see section 543(c) of Pub. L. 101-
649, set out as a note under section 1221 of this title.
Abolition of Immigration and Naturalization Service and Transfer of
Functions
For abolition of Immigration and Naturalization Service, transfer of
functions, and treatment of related references, see note set out under
section 1551 of this title.
It's not OK Dan and anyone who thinks it is, is un-American. Why would any hard working, proud American want any person to come into our country illegally and take our services that we worked so hard for our whole life? I'm glad you posted those laws about immigration. Maybe it will open some eyes.
I like Giuliani also, and I'm not questioning him either. He may be mistaken on this issue about the law.
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Immigrants and costs
