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Old 11-05-2008, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Drama Central
4,084 posts, read 5,683,138 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre View Post
The two most important issues for EVERYONE right now ought to be the economy and the war. No "Adam and Steve" or "Roe v. Wade" or "dey took 'er guns!!!" Those are all ancillary issues.

Paul honestly I don't understand.........Our economy has been up and down for the last 100 years and will always be and up and down so really its a current issue and will always be one at that.....Wars? Irag and Afganistan are not the first wars that we as a nation have been in and will certainly not be the last...We have been at war in some place for some reason pretty much for what 200 years so that is not really anything new to us as a nation...

But for you to say that an attack or any attempt to restrict, change or ban the rights that have been granted to us for the last 200+ years is an ancillary issue blows my mind.

Our rights are just that our rights and they are what make us who we are as a nation.....

The ancillary issues are the current war that we are in and the current state of our economy, they are not the first nor will they be the last of their kind, but once we allow any of our rights whether it be the 1st, 3rd, 12th, 14th or 2nd to be constrained and oppressed we are essentially throwing everything that this nation was founded upon out the window in light of a CURRENT ISSUE......

You do not throw away 200 years of our history and the bill of rights and call them ancillary issues over a current issue that is just that. Wars have come and gone, bad economies have come and gone and they will both continue to do that, but our rights and our founding constructive documents have weathered 200 years and are still here.....There is nothing ancillary about the bill of rights, you cannot pick and choose one right over the other, this IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL BUFFET.
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Old 11-05-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Northern Wayne Co, PA
620 posts, read 1,337,787 times
Reputation: 329
On the one hand, I think there is enough support for the 2nd amendment in this country, that I can't ever see the right to bare arms going away....and yet, many Americans have stood by idly while other very important rights were taken away during the Bush era. So, anything is possible. They are all important issues, and we need to focus on all of them. The Iraq war has got to end. There is just no other way to look at it as far as I am concerned. It is not up to Obama to fix the economy, but hopefully the politicians will make wise choices in the legislation that is coming down the pike relating to the economy.

I think that first we have to stop being a nation of non stop consumption of anything we can get our hands on. That will crash the economy once and for all and then we can start rebuilding a system that supports well being of the individual. If anyone is up for the challenge, try to get your family to not buy Christmas presents this year. Make everything, or do something creative to express how much you love them. The obsession with consuming is a disease that is destroying everything around us, most of all our own wellness.

We are the economy...that one is up to us in large part...we can bring it down and create something sustainable and viable if we get clear and work together.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
26,217 posts, read 45,870,912 times
Reputation: 11049
Quote:
Originally Posted by MermanMike View Post
Here is a link to the results in Wayne Co... http://www.co.wayne.pa.us/files/elections/page.htm
Does anyone know how to access the results by municipality for Luzerne County? I can't find them online.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Sheeptown, USA
3,234 posts, read 4,281,057 times
Reputation: 894
Quote:
Originally Posted by weluvpa View Post
In desperation for a change our nation just cut off its nose to spite its face...
Exactly Dan. We say we need change, but is this the change we need? Sometimes change for changes sake, isn't always good. I have a bad feeling about this. I can't believe this country is going to have a President named Obama. It sounds like he should be president of some Middle East country. Have we not forgot about 9/11? I'll give him a chance, but in my opinion don't think he's the answer. He's a socialist and his views are too left-wing for me. I just can't get excited about his election to President of the U.S. And you can't really blame Bush for the economy, like Dan said, the economy goes up and down all of the time. Let's see if Obama really does he what he said he was going to do. The jury is still out for me.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Sheeptown, USA
3,234 posts, read 4,281,057 times
Reputation: 894
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScranBarre View Post
That is exactly why I shifted my support away from Sen. McCain when I more fully researched Gov. Palin. The stakes were too high for me to vote for him and then fear having that callous woman ascend to the presidency. When she said she'd support a Federal amendment to ban same-sex marriage and civil unions and thought that we were working in accordance to "God's plan" in Iraq, that was the final straw for me. I'm a Christian. I love our Lord. I do NOT think our nation's forefathers intended to have one faith trample over all other religious affiliations though. Let Gov. Palin spew forth that vitriol back up in Alaska, where it doesn't bother me in the least!
Paul, no offense against you, but I don't believe in same-sex marriages either. Marriage is the sacrament that is the union of a man and a woman. That's it. I didn't make it up, that's just the way it is. It says so in the Bible. I think anything otherwise is making a mockery of marriage. If homosexuals want to live together fine, but don't call it a marriage.
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Idiocracy
904 posts, read 1,296,830 times
Reputation: 353
I haven't heard any speeches about gun control this political season, so not even sure where this is coming from, comrades. Sounds like you're bitter about the election and proving Obama right about bitter Pennsylvanians clinging to their guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coartist88 View Post
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
That seems like quite a stretch to say that it was "because of gun control", a suave stretch I suppose, but a stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coartist88 View Post
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
Where'd you hear this? I'm no historian, but as I remember it from history class, both sides were deeply engaged in island-hopping battles in an attempt for naval control of the Pacific, and neither could have staged an invasion with that going on.


In all seriousness regarding the 2nd amendment, do you believe people should be able to get tanks, automatic weapons, surface-to-air missiles and the like? Isn't that a commonly accepted limit on the 2nd amendment? If not, how is that different from other limits--say on handguns, which are way less useful for a militia to stand against a modern army?
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Sheeptown, USA
3,234 posts, read 4,281,057 times
Reputation: 894
Quote:
Originally Posted by coartist88 View Post
don't worry...he's going to do great....he has his long time friend and advisor
the good rev.wright that he associated with up until he ran for president...
now that he's in,he will be back to hanging out him...getting good spiritual
advice...I thought at his speech he was going to start handing out kool-aid..
he associated with this guy for 20 years...and people still went for this...
mccain was no prize...but I don't see why everyone is so gungho and happy
about this change....yes,america has spited itself just for a change...
go figure....
coartist, I'm not gung-ho or happy about this change at all. This is not the change we need. A liberal, radical socialist has the potential to be worse than Bush could ever be. I can't believe people accept the fact that Obama is associated with that reverend and everybody is OK with that. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:23 PM
 
2,322 posts, read 3,429,236 times
Reputation: 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by blip View Post
I haven't heard any speeches about gun control this political season, so not even sure where this is coming from, comrades. Sounds like you're bitter about the election and proving Obama right about bitter Pennsylvanians clinging to their guns.



That seems like quite a stretch to say that it was "because of gun control", a suave stretch I suppose, but a stretch.



Where'd you hear this? I'm no historian, but as I remember it from history class, both sides were deeply engaged in island-hopping battles in an attempt for naval control of the Pacific, and neither could have staged an invasion with that going on.


In all seriousness regarding the 2nd amendment, do you believe people should be able to get tanks, automatic weapons, surface-to-air missiles and the like? Isn't that a commonly accepted limit on the 2nd amendment? If not, how is that different from other limits--say on handguns, which are way less useful for a militia to stand against a modern army?
It's not the point of what type of weapons,etc. once our rights are infridged upon according to the constitution when does it stop....I did 20 years in
law enforcement....and God forbid citizens right to keep and bear arms are taken away...or any of our rights.....I believe the FYI on the japenese was right after they bombed pearl harbor...they didn't go any farther inland...
but I must say...suave...damn I'm suave.....none of our amendment rights should be messed with...rights are rights are rights....hot damn I'm suave...
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:32 PM
 
2,322 posts, read 3,429,236 times
Reputation: 1210
I haven't heard any speeches about gun control this political season, so not even sure where this is coming from, comrades. Sounds like you're bitter about the election and proving Obama right about bitter Pennsylvanians clinging to their guns.

I'm really not bitter about this guy winning...but why does everyone think he
is the answer...like he is going to wave a magic wand and all is well...
mccain is no bargain either...but people patronize obama like what he's going to do...I really hope he is the best president we ever had...and we get back on track....

http://bestsmileys.com/magic/1.gif (broken link)
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Dallas, PA
1,422 posts, read 2,280,013 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008 View Post
I can't believe this country is going to have a President named Obama. It sounds like he should be president of some Middle East country. Have we not forgot about 9/11? .
WHAT does his name have to do with anything? Are you insinuating that because his name is Obama, because it "sounds like" Osama, that he must have ties to terrorism? This level of ignorance truly astounds me.
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