The offended Bishop in Scranton (legal, title, catholics)

[returningtonepa???]

Originally Posted by AmeriKenArtist

One does not have to be catholic to experience the contradictions. In fact, not being indoctrinated helped me to see the hypocrisy non-objectively. I speak about my own personal experiences. Others have the right to speak their feelings. In the catholic tradition, you are taught not to ask too many questions!! There is an abundance of dry rules and true loving spirituality is scant, to say the least of their rituals. Morose is what one parishoner called them. Of course, if you are reared in the tradition, you do it without question. And, as you confirmed, guilt is prevalent if you are not attending regularly or you miss some other man-made obligation!

I experience laughter in my church sermons! I see people smiling. And if I don't attend for a month or several months, noone says anything negative. Noone looks down on me. I get handshakes and a "good to see you!" Church should make one feel happy to be alive, not just fulfilling a list of duties.

not all catholics are as you describe them--i'm sure even your church has some un christian people attending

btw,ALL organized religions,by their nature,have some rules!

[AmeriKenArtist]

I am talking about the hierarchy, not the congregation, although I have my share of catholic friends, who trouble having fun without apologizing or asking forgiveness to one of the many many saints up there! Or for that matter, I know someone who cannot conduct simple daily tasks without talking to a particular person in the sky for help. It seems "close to the cuckoos nest" if you get my drift. Personal responsibility isn't in the mental framework.

True, rules are necessary in any type of organization, but I found this sect to be inundated with parameters. How many "days of obligation" are there in a year? My son spent his first 15 years in that institution and spoke of how negative and money-oriented each and every sermon was!

[I LOVE PA!]

Saying all Catholics are the same or saying all Catholic Churches are the same is like...wel...its' like saying all 'white people' are the same or all 'black' people.


I go to a Catholic Church....the priest NEVER asks for money...and we have a good laugh many a time in the Catholic Church where I go.
I had a friend who wnet to a Episcopalian Church...when introding me to her priest and joking that I was Catholic...yes...we all chuckled...she told him she used to be Catholic but didn't like the 'confession rule'. Wel..apparantly she didn't know that the same rule was in her church also.

All organized religions have rules..those who don't/can't conform to rules or the mere 'having' of them seem to seek out their own church. We have tons of them around here in NEPA. Seems like anyone can call himself a priest and star their own church.

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by AmeriKenArtist

One does not have to be catholic to experience the contradictions. In fact, not being indoctrinated helped me to see the hypocrisy non-objectively. I speak about my own personal experiences. Others have the right to speak their feelings. In the catholic tradition, you are taught not to ask too many questions!! There is an abundance of dry rules and true loving spirituality is scant, to say the least of their rituals. Morose is what one parishoner called them. Of course, if you are reared in the tradition, you do it without question. And, as you confirmed, guilt is prevalent if you are not attending regularly or you miss some other man-made obligation!

I experience laughter in my church sermons! I see people smiling. And if I don't attend for a month or several months, noone says anything negative. Noone looks down on me. I get handshakes and a "good to see you!" Church should make one feel happy to be alive, not just fulfilling a list of duties.

As someone who is an adult convert to the Catholic Church, I say you couldn't be any further from the truth. I have tried every sort of church imaginable, and never experienced true sprituality and reverence for God until coming home to the Catholic Church. A lot of the newer trendy non-denominational churches, as well as liberal churches, are more about what church can do for you, rather than what you can do for God and your fellow man (reminds me of the "ask not what your country can do for you...."). Please stop speaking of which you know NOTHING about. You're sounding more and more like an anti-Catholic bigot with a chip on your shoulder the more you speak on this subject.

[AmeriKenArtist]

The five catholic churches I've been in, have exemplified what I've said. Very sad. My catholic friends I grew up with, told me stories of parochial school and church. Sad stories that were riddled with abuse. There ya go. I'm not brushing with a broad stroke. I said I was talking from experiences.

"...all the rest are pseudo-churches!"

-Father _________ .

[I LOVE PA!]

Are we talking 40 years ago or are we talking NOW.
That would explain a lot.
I could tell a horror story or two from my days in Catholic School.

The Catholic priest in my church...he wears jeans and hiking boots under his robe...he jokes often through out mass at appropriate times...he stand in the back of the church and shakes everyone's hands and greet them, laughing. He likes 70's rock music and wears a camoflouge jacket out in public. He jokes with the kids...he even jokes about the Bishop's annual appeal.
I'm not saying I haven't met a priest I didn't like...but I certainly woudn't write them all off because of a few bad apples.

[Jungle George]

Originally Posted by I LOVE PA!

I'm not saying I haven't met a priest I didn't like...but I certainly woudn't write them all off because of a few bad apples.

Absolutely right!! I don't care if they're priests, ministers, rabbis, imams or whatever, they're HUMAN with the inherent inhibitions, phobias, prejudices, joys, sorrows & every other imperfection that comes under the title "human"!!

There's good & bad in all people, & there's viewpoints & opinions in every shade of black, white & grey among clergy just as with lay-people. My God...just look at the vast variety of people just in this forum alone!!

My opinion is "if a certain organized religion doesn't help you get closer to God & get you working towards being the type of person that He (She) wants you to be, move on & find another that DOES help you". Just don't discount that individual organized religion for everyone based on it's not being right for you 'cause it may be what's right for others on their own paths, & don't base your decision solely on the actions of a human "mediary"...

Only we know what is between us & our Creator. No church or synagogue or temple can speak for us to the Almighty. There is no "bargaining table" with the Lord just 'cause we're Catholic, or Jewish, or Presbyterian, or Muslim....no scarping up brownie points based solely on our being a certain faith.

If we don't have a personal relationship with the Creator, no amount of masses, Hail Marys, diviting or kneeling facing East is gonna help us!!

[AmeriKenArtist]

... I was happy to hear that many catholics voted for Obama. I wonder how the bishop will be able to sort them out from the rest of the flock!

[I LOVE PA!]

As far as I'm concerned...God will do the judging.

[Jungle George]

Originally Posted by I LOVE PA!

As far as I'm concerned...God will do the judging.

Would that EVERY religious person felt this way!!!