Scranton is in Growth Mode (Wilkes-Barre, York: loft, condo, to buy)

[JD CSummit]

Great point Shoegal, the Waverly road corridor, which these days is the perpendicular route between abington road and 6&11, was a crucial route for the underground railroad. Historic Waverly has the dates for which the individual homes were built and, if you're feeling brave, most of the current residents, can show you the crawlspaces and basement spots that were used and nightly hiding spots. It's very interesting.

[shoegal111]

Originally Posted by JD CSummit

Great point Shoegal, the Waverly road corridor, which these days is the perpendicular route between abington road and 6&11, was a crucial route for the underground railroad. Historic Waverly has the dates for which the individual homes were built and, if you're feeling brave, most of the current residents, can show you the crawlspaces and basement spots that were used and nightly hiding spots. It's very interesting.

Thanks JD. I am not that brave-it's not the small spaces but the spiders that are probably there that creep me out. There are a lot of people in the area that don't appreciate the remarkable history of this entire area and the impact it had on this country.

[go phillies]

Originally Posted by JD CSummit

You asked what the allure is of living in the Abingtons. Whats the allure of living in Scranton? Yes its the cultural and business hub of the area but really, whats the allure?

What is the allure? Convenience. Down-to-earth people. Walkable neighborhoods with sidewalks...and school, church, stores, etc in walking distance. Smaller neighborhood schools where everyone is on a first name basis, rather than mega-schools where kids have to ride a bus for 20 minutes and they're only a number among 900 other kids in the school, and the kids aren't all rich and snobby and judge each other by the kind of car their parents drive or the label on their pants as they do in the upper-crust areas. Nice older architecture as opposed to sterile newer developments.

[go phillies]

Originally Posted by shoegal111

Gee, then how does one explain the Scranton, Noble and Oppenheim estates among others? They have been there a heck of a lot longer that 50 years.

But back then, the Abingtons was a sparsely-populated rural area. These days its indistinguishable from a New Jersey suburb with traffic, sterile cul-de-sac developments, and strip malls.

[JD CSummit]

Originally Posted by go phillies

What is the allure? Convenience. Down-to-earth people. Walkable neighborhoods with sidewalks...and school, church, stores, etc in walking distance. Smaller neighborhood schools where everyone is on a first name basis, rather than mega-schools where kids have to ride a bus for 20 minutes and they're only a number among 900 other kids in the school, and the kids aren't all rich and snobby and judge each other by the kind of car their parents drive or the label on their pants as they do in the upper-crust areas. Nice older architecture as opposed to sterile newer developments.

Were you making your argument or mine? Abington has 4 elementary schools with about 400 kids per school, TOTAL. They all filter into the Middle School which is only grades 5-8 and then they go to the High School. The high school, by the way, is SMALLER than Scranton and just barely bigger than West Scranton. So, really, that argument was useless. Yes, there are some long bus rides as the school district covers a lot of territory, but Lakeland school district (much smaller school) covers almost the same size footprint. And as for the kids judging based on material needs, which school district (scranton or AH) recently had to enact school uniforms as a form of safety and prevention. If i were a parent, id rather have my son or daughter be judged by snobs for the labels than marked by those less fortunate for violence.

[go phillies]

Originally Posted by JD CSummit

Were you making your argument or mine? Abington has 4 elementary schools with about 400 kids per school, TOTAL. They all filter into the Middle School which is only grades 5-8 and then they go to the High School. The high school, by the way, is SMALLER than Scranton and just barely bigger than West Scranton. So, really, that argument was useless. Yes, there are some long bus rides as the school district covers a lot of territory, but Lakeland school district (much smaller school) covers almost the same size footprint. And as for the kids judging based on material needs, which school district (scranton or AH) recently had to enact school uniforms as a form of safety and prevention. If i were a parent, id rather have my son or daughter be judged by snobs for the labels than marked by those less fortunate for violence.

I'll agree with you on the high school, which is reason I moved to West Side as opposed to other parts of town because I didn't want my kids at Scranton HS, which is too big in my opinion. I think Scranton should still have 3 high schools. As far as being "marked for violence," I haven't heard of any out-of-the ordinary violence in Scranton's high schools, but I have heard of a major drug problem at Abington Heights....guess that's what you get with well-off kids with a lot of money to burn and little parental supervision because both parents are too wrapped up in their careers so they can keep up with the Joneses in their South Abington subdivision.

I don't see the allure of the Abingtons.....Clarks Summit borough is a nice enough town, but I just don't like all the sterile developments in the surrounding areas. Even if I did have a need to move out of Scranton, I just don't see the Abingtons being worth the inflated price tag. I would just as soon move to the Mid-Valley or Dunmore.

[JD CSummit]

No argument here on the drug issue. Its something everyone where i live needs to work on. I know our school district superintendant, michael mahon, has been very proactive in fixing the problem but MUCH MORE needs to be done. As for my comment on the violence, i cant find the article on times online because its archived but i remember violence being cited as one of the reasons for the change to uniforms. marked for violence, ill admit, was probably a bit dramatic.

[go phillies]

As far as the uniforms and violence, I don't know.....actually Scranton only has uniforms at the elementary and middle school levels, but the high schools just have a dress code (basically its polos/khakis/sweaters, but the elementary schools have to wear the official monogramed SSD uniforms, and the high schools just have to stay within the dress code). I'm surprised Abington doesn't have uniforms yet...it seems most schools in the area have them now....Valley View, Riverside, Dunmore, and Lakeland have them as far as I know. I think the trend towards uniforms is more a response to some of the "distracting" fashion trends these days (boys with baggy pants and boxers showing, girls showing too much skin) than it is a response to violence.

[ScranBarre]

Now that I'm a bit more level-headed I just wanting to apologize for coming off so nasty upthread a bit. I'm just tired of the "Krispy Kreme Donut" syndrome occurring back in NEPA where all of the upper-middle-class educated upstanding people are moving OUT of the valley floor, leaving a "donut hole" that is surrounded by the ring of confectionary goodness (upscale subdivisions out the wazoo). The valley floor continues to look distressed, depressed, and is battling rising poverty, crime, and housing vacany rates while the donut "ring" is sucking up all of the good the region has to offer.

I'm sorry to be "guilt-tripping" those of you who live in South Abington Township, but it's the honest-to-goodness truth. Just think how much BETTER OFF Scranton would be if the roughly 10,000 mostly well-educated and well-off people in South Abington Township moved to West Side, South Side, etc. (or at the very least to the city's more "prestigious" areas like Green Ridge and parts of both East Mountain and The Hill). The way it is now a dually-employed couple with three children living in Scranton and earning $100,000 ($3,400 annually in wage taxes) could move out to suburbia and be replaced by a Section 8 "fixed income" senior citizen who earns $10,000 ($340 in annual wage taxes). The city's population would drop by 4, hitting us hard with the U.S. Census, as usual, and the home's exterior maintenance would gradually deteriorate due to the impoverished individual's inability to afford to upkeep the property, giving the neighborhood a more "weathered" look. Likewise that home could instead be purchased by a slumlord from The Bronx who would rent out the place to ANYONE (including drug dealers) and reap the profits while the community once again goes to "pot." (Get it!)

Sadly this IS what is happening little by little all over the Electric City. The educated and more well-to-do folks have been flooding out to South Abington Twp., Glenmaura, Roaring Brook Twp., Clarks Green, and other upscale enclaves while they are replaced by those who have caused the city's poverty rate to spike and have caused a small uptick in crime as well. Scranton has relatively lower-than-average property taxes and housing prices in relation to most adjacent suburbs, so naturally those who are just focusing in on the wage tax and the wage tax alone as a reason to move out (foolish in my eyes, but I digress) are typically replaced by riff-raff. It's not a good cycle, and it's one that needs to STOP! I'm encouraged somewhat by the addition of all of the new condos/lofts downtown as those WILL attract upstanding middle-class tax payers back into the city (despite what Dan and many others say there ARE "some" people like myself and many of my new NoVA friends who would like to live in a downtown environment), but that's just a drop in the bucket for what really needs to be done.

How can Scranton improve when its tax base continues to erode---not only from pure population loss but also from having a progressively smaller proportion of high earners? It's a lose-lose situation. You cut services to hold the line on taxes, and people like Les Spindler complain. You raise taxes to maintain adequate services, and people like Les Spindler complain. What can be done to satisfy the 72,500 Les Spindler wannabes of the Electric City?

[loveinbloom]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

Now that I'm a bit more level-headed I just wanting to apologize for coming off so nasty upthread a bit. I'm just tired of the "Krispy Kreme Donut" syndrome occurring back in NEPA where all of the upper-middle-class educated upstanding people are moving OUT of the valley floor, leaving a "donut hole" that is surrounded by the ring of confectionary goodness (upscale subdivisions out the wazoo). The valley floor continues to look distressed, depressed, and is battling rising poverty, crime, and housing vacany rates while the donut "ring" is sucking up all of the good the region has to offer.

I'm sorry to be "guilt-tripping" those of you who live in South Abington Township, but it's the honest-to-goodness truth. Just think how much BETTER OFF Scranton would be if the roughly 10,000 mostly well-educated and well-off people in South Abington Township moved to West Side, South Side, etc. (or at the very least to the city's more "prestigious" areas like Green Ridge and parts of both East Mountain and The Hill). The way it is now a dually-employed couple with three children living in Scranton and earning $100,000 ($3,400 annually in wage taxes) could move out to suburbia and be replaced by a Section 8 "fixed income" senior citizen who earns $10,000 ($340 in annual wage taxes). The city's population would drop by 4, hitting us hard with the U.S. Census, as usual, and the home's exterior maintenance would gradually deteriorate due to the impoverished individual's inability to afford to upkeep the property, giving the neighborhood a more "weathered" look. Likewise that home could instead be purchased by a slumlord from The Bronx who would rent out the place to ANYONE (including drug dealers) and reap the profits while the community once again goes to "pot." (Get it!)

Sadly this IS what is happening little by little all over the Electric City. The educated and more well-to-do folks have been flooding out to South Abington Twp., Glenmaura, Roaring Brook Twp., Clarks Green, and other upscale enclaves while they are replaced by those who have caused the city's poverty rate to spike and have caused a small uptick in crime as well. Scranton has relatively lower-than-average property taxes and housing prices in relation to most adjacent suburbs, so naturally those who are just focusing in on the wage tax and the wage tax alone as a reason to move out (foolish in my eyes, but I digress) are typically replaced by riff-raff. It's not a good cycle, and it's one that needs to STOP! I'm encouraged somewhat by the addition of all of the new condos/lofts downtown as those WILL attract upstanding middle-class tax payers back into the city (despite what Dan and many others say there ARE "some" people like myself and many of my new NoVA friends who would like to live in a downtown environment), but that's just a drop in the bucket for what really needs to be done.

How can Scranton improve when its tax base continues to erode---not only from pure population loss but also from having a progressively smaller proportion of high earners? It's a lose-lose situation. You cut services to hold the line on taxes, and people like Les Spindler complain. You raise taxes to maintain adequate services, and people like Les Spindler complain. What can be done to satisfy the 72,500 Les Spindler wannabes of the Electric City?

I don't think any reader would feel "guilt tripping" for living in the Abingtons or another suburb reading your post, since they at least stayed in the state or moved here, while you took your degree and left. I do not mean to sound harsh but , it is what it is. If I had my way I would move to Clarks Summit tomorrow, but hubby and I still can not agree where to buy!